DIR and Rebreathers

duartesss · 23rd October 2006, 03:18

Is true that DIR don't "like" CCR's?

Why? Because the electronic parts?

Even in a OC diver is possible to remove all the electronic (computers, lamps, etc)?

GuyW · 23rd October 2006, 05:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by duartesss)

Is true that DIR don't "like" CCR's?

Why? Because the electronic parts?

Even in a OC diver is possible to remove all the electronic (computers, lamps, etc)?

That is right. They don't.

They like the Rebreather that they invented however (RB80) because it is more of a gas extender.

I suppose that as the DIR philosophy is to keep it simple, they don't like complexity, especially relying on electronics which they consider subject to sudden failures.

If course the counter argument is that you can "manage" the complexity, and the advantages of a virtually limitless supply of the right gas outweighs the possible problems.

You could get bogged down in a religious war over this question as it tends to polarise people into extreme views. I suggest that the truth is somewhere in between.

Guy

Nad · 23rd October 2006, 08:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW)

That is right. They don't.

They like the Rebreather that they invented however (RB80) because it is more of a gas extender.

I suppose that as the DIR philosophy is to keep it simple, they don't like complexity, especially relying on electronics which they consider subject to sudden failures.

If course the counter argument is that you can "manage" the complexity, and the advantages of a virtually limitless supply of the right gas outweighs the possible problems.

You could get bogged down in a religious war over this question as it tends to polarise people into extreme views. I suggest that the truth is somewhere in between.

Guy

You know, I read a couple of month ago about a surgery made by surgeons in NY and patience in Paris. Everything with robots and computers...
Then people come to say we can't trust the electronic...Guess what I think!

Usually people hate what they don't understand!

I once found myself with a bunch of DIR guys (I didn't really know that) they made problems to dive with me because I had two poseidons Extreme. I told them, ok, give me a good reason because you don't use it and I can change Idea. I'm still waiting... They (two instructors) didn't have any idea about the Poseidons regulators!
Then I dove solo.

This is just to help you think!

Best,
Nad

***EBT*** · 23rd October 2006, 09:06

Their main arguments revolve around Sensor accuracy/linearity/stability over the course of a dive and the fact that their Deco/physiology beliefs don't align well with Constant PO2.

Personally I think theres some truth in both, its a question of how you then go on to manage these issues for yourself. Before dismissing the arguments out of hand, I'd suggest they're worthy of thought.

duartesss · 23rd October 2006, 12:22

Thanks

There are, among the people who use CCR’s, projects with the same standard procedures/configurations like the DIR perspective?

John Speers · 24th October 2006, 12:53

Just a couple of thoughts,,,

DIR divers like to reduce single points of failure.

The dive boat is a single point of failure, does this mean that all DIR dives will be shore dives?

DIR divers don't like to rely on electronics.

How do you check/test your mix prior to diving?

Mmmm.

db8us · 24th October 2006, 15:32

I can not speak for others, but because i consider myself close to DIR i will step on the soap-box.
First: Everyone can use whatever unit he wants and dive however he wants.
Second: Our group (EKPP) is using RB80 because we standardize equipment and we see this unit as the best for our needs (long deep cave penetrations).
Actually the need for such a unit whas the REASON to build the RB80.During our dives we just do not WANT to check electronic gatchets every minute, we want to focus on the dive, the buddy, etc.

It is always said, that we are AGAINST eCCR, but this is not true.
We just do not allow themn within our groupr during projects.

And by the way, we have a former Buddy-Inspiration Instructor-Trainer within the Team.

So far to the "they have no clue" argument.

So dive your CCR and be happy, we will continue watching the community, check and dive other units and we will switch to something better if it comes our way.
Our goal is to use the simplest tools that gets the job done in the way we want it.
And of course we do not dive solo

Michael

Dutchy · 24th October 2006, 21:40

Have some green. Well explained without the all to commonly found condescending tone....

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 25th October 2006, 01:58

Yes, I think that merits some green, too.

Nad · 25th October 2006, 06:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by db8us)

I can not speak for others, but because i consider myself close to DIR i will step on the soap-box.
First: Everyone can use whatever unit he wants and dive however he wants.
Second: Our group (EKPP) is using RB80 because we standardize equipment and we see this unit as the best for our needs (long deep cave penetrations).
Actually the need for such a unit whas the REASON to build the RB80.During our dives we just do not WANT to check electronic gatchets every minute, we want to focus on the dive, the buddy, etc.

It is always said, that we are AGAINST eCCR, but this is not true.
We just do not allow themn within our groupr during projects.

And by the way, we have a former Buddy-Inspiration Instructor-Trainer within the Team.

So far to the "they have no clue" argument.

So dive your CCR and be happy, we will continue watching the community, check and dive other units and we will switch to something better if it comes our way.
Our goal is to use the simplest tools that gets the job done in the way we want it.
And of course we do not dive solo

Michael

Hi michael,
Good arguments...thanks God we (eCCR Divers) are here: to test new units for you guys. I never think to myself like a GUE's GuineaPig.

Who is going to pay the bill...?

Ok for projects and standardized equipment but you're telling us that you don't even know your depth? Or you use a rope for the measurement? (sorry I couldn't resist

).

However if during classes instructors are not able to teach correctly then students can say and do whatever they like. This is an instructor problem (of course) and an EVERY agency problem...
You did explain your reason very good, as expected from a diver as you are.

Best,

Nad

23rd October 2006, 03:18	#1 (permalink)
duartesss New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 13	DIR and Rebreathers Is true that DIR don't "like" CCR's? Why? Because the electronic parts? Even in a OC diver is possible to remove all the electronic (computers, lamps, etc)?
(Offline)

23rd October 2006, 05:02	#2 (permalink)
GuyW Old Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 61	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by duartesss) Is true that DIR don't "like" CCR's? Why? Because the electronic parts? Even in a OC diver is possible to remove all the electronic (computers, lamps, etc)? That is right. They don't. They like the Rebreather that they invented however (RB80) because it is more of a gas extender. I suppose that as the DIR philosophy is to keep it simple, they don't like complexity, especially relying on electronics which they consider subject to sudden failures. If course the counter argument is that you can "manage" the complexity, and the advantages of a virtually limitless supply of the right gas outweighs the possible problems. You could get bogged down in a religious war over this question as it tends to polarise people into extreme views. I suggest that the truth is somewhere in between. Guy
(Offline)

23rd October 2006, 08:03	#3 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 941	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW) That is right. They don't. They like the Rebreather that they invented however (RB80) because it is more of a gas extender. I suppose that as the DIR philosophy is to keep it simple, they don't like complexity, especially relying on electronics which they consider subject to sudden failures. If course the counter argument is that you can "manage" the complexity, and the advantages of a virtually limitless supply of the right gas outweighs the possible problems. You could get bogged down in a religious war over this question as it tends to polarise people into extreme views. I suggest that the truth is somewhere in between. Guy You know, I read a couple of month ago about a surgery made by surgeons in NY and patience in Paris. Everything with robots and computers... Then people come to say we can't trust the electronic...Guess what I think! Usually people hate what they don't understand! I once found myself with a bunch of DIR guys (I didn't really know that) they made problems to dive with me because I had two poseidons Extreme. I told them, ok, give me a good reason because you don't use it and I can change Idea. I'm still waiting... They (two instructors) didn't have any idea about the Poseidons regulators! Then I dove solo. This is just to help you think! Best, Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
(Online)

23rd October 2006, 09:06	#4 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,855	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Their main arguments revolve around Sensor accuracy/linearity/stability over the course of a dive and the fact that their Deco/physiology beliefs don't align well with Constant PO2. Personally I think theres some truth in both, its a question of how you then go on to manage these issues for yourself. Before dismissing the arguments out of hand, I'd suggest they're worthy of thought. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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23rd October 2006, 12:22	#5 (permalink)
duartesss New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 13	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Thanks There are, among the people who use CCR’s, projects with the same standard procedures/configurations like the DIR perspective?
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24th October 2006, 12:53	#6 (permalink)
John Speers New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 19	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Just a couple of thoughts,,, DIR divers like to reduce single points of failure. The dive boat is a single point of failure, does this mean that all DIR dives will be shore dives? DIR divers don't like to rely on electronics. How do you check/test your mix prior to diving? Mmmm.
(Offline)

24th October 2006, 15:32	#7 (permalink)
db8us Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 225	Re: DIR and Rebreathers I can not speak for others, but because i consider myself close to DIR i will step on the soap-box. First: Everyone can use whatever unit he wants and dive however he wants. Second: Our group (EKPP) is using RB80 because we standardize equipment and we see this unit as the best for our needs (long deep cave penetrations). Actually the need for such a unit whas the REASON to build the RB80.During our dives we just do not WANT to check electronic gatchets every minute, we want to focus on the dive, the buddy, etc. It is always said, that we are AGAINST eCCR, but this is not true. We just do not allow themn within our groupr during projects. And by the way, we have a former Buddy-Inspiration Instructor-Trainer within the Team. So far to the "they have no clue" argument. So dive your CCR and be happy, we will continue watching the community, check and dive other units and we will switch to something better if it comes our way. Our goal is to use the simplest tools that gets the job done in the way we want it. And of course we do not dive solo Michael
(Offline)

24th October 2006, 21:40	#8 (permalink)
Dutchy SK#007 Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 699	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Have some green. Well explained without the all to commonly found condescending tone.... __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. = SK #007
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25th October 2006, 01:58	#9 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,937	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Yes, I think that merits some green, too. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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25th October 2006, 06:40	#10 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 941	Re: DIR and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by db8us) I can not speak for others, but because i consider myself close to DIR i will step on the soap-box. First: Everyone can use whatever unit he wants and dive however he wants. Second: Our group (EKPP) is using RB80 because we standardize equipment and we see this unit as the best for our needs (long deep cave penetrations). Actually the need for such a unit whas the REASON to build the RB80.During our dives we just do not WANT to check electronic gatchets every minute, we want to focus on the dive, the buddy, etc. It is always said, that we are AGAINST eCCR, but this is not true. We just do not allow themn within our groupr during projects. And by the way, we have a former Buddy-Inspiration Instructor-Trainer within the Team. So far to the "they have no clue" argument. So dive your CCR and be happy, we will continue watching the community, check and dive other units and we will switch to something better if it comes our way. Our goal is to use the simplest tools that gets the job done in the way we want it. And of course we do not dive solo Michael Hi michael, Good arguments...thanks God we (eCCR Divers) are here: to test new units for you guys. I never think to myself like a GUE's GuineaPig. Who is going to pay the bill...? Ok for projects and standardized equipment but you're telling us that you don't even know your depth? Or you use a rope for the measurement? (sorry I couldn't resist ). However if during classes instructors are not able to teach correctly then students can say and do whatever they like. This is an instructor problem (of course) and an EVERY agency problem... You did explain your reason very good, as expected from a diver as you are. Best, Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
(Online)

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