Passive Scr Superiority?

Janos

A member of our club is or was based out in Azerbaijan. I can check if you'd like?

Janos

PS - Now this counts as Research.

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bjornaow

According to G.I and J.J there is no one who have died using a RB80 that have been Gue trained. I ask’t this question one year ago on the Gavin scooter list and that’s what they said!

I have heard the one have died using a EDO-04 but nobody have showed me of any diver that died using a RB80 made by Halcyon or Dr. Reinhard Buchaly and there are some differs between them like that the lungs are little bit smaller on the Halcyon made one.

Must say that with high demands they put on a diver that want to be RB80 trained by Gue there should be weary few accidents.

Demands are
Fundamentals
Tech 1
Tech 2
300+ Dives
If some one knows better please tell me!

Best regards

Björn Q

EBT

Bjorn,

Two things.

1. Theres a VERY low population of RB80's
2. Theres a very rigourous procedural wrap around them in GUE world.

So Im suggesting that maybe the stats around the technology are not so valuable.


/Z

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bjornaow

EBT

Have I said any thing diffrent? (I think not)

But some one said that a user of RB80 hade died using it. And what I know thats not truth.

best regards

Björn

EBT

Ahaaaa, so we have violent agreement

(read the PS on this post)

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Marc T

Pretty things still done with this curious tool which touch you so much

EKPP: Projects: Source de Vis 06 (August): Overview - European Karst Plain Project

The important thing is who and how to use it but its the same thing for every tool.

Note that some Rebreather are tools some other are toys ( but I dont said just toys ).

bjornaow

Marc T

thats a good one

Take care all of you

denzel

Some rebreathers are tools, and some rebreather users are tools.

Denz.

__________________

Janos

I have checked with my Baku source and he says that there have been no rebreather incidents in Azerbaijan that he is aware of. He can't find contact details for the Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers though, so I'm going to stick with my current training.

Janos

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AD_ward9

Let us take some numbers, Megs, Inspos and Dolphins. Numbers on KISS are smaller, and only one fatality so lets miss out KISSes.

There are about 1650 active Inspos. Interestingly, 3 companies involved in the supply of dive hardware each came up with this number with a spread of just 50 units, recently. It may well be that two to three times that number have been sold, but the number in use is what matters.

There seems to have been around 35 to 40 Inspo deaths (I saw a nice chart of deaths per year on the Inspo, from APD, but cannot find it - I did a seach just now - if anyone can post it it would be nice). If we assume a straight line production increase, then we have 4.85% death rate on the Inspo, that is, almost one in twenty of active users can expect to perish if they keep using the thing for the period it has been released. The sum is 100*2*40/1650.

If we took the Inspo figures in 2000, and extrapolated them to today, based on the lower population, 20% would have perished if I am not mistaken. Good job there were some product improvements in 2000 and further ones in 2003 and 2006. This is charting the death rate against the population of users. If APD published their figures, this sum could be spot on, but of course, with such a sum who would want to advertise it?

The figure I have seen on this forum for the Meg was 4%. I cannot vouch for the user population, but the person who posted this figure, causing a lot of debate, was not challenged with a lower figure. Using the correct sum, i.e. half the population as the population does grow from zero to present value, this would give 8% of users. Better than the Inspo when it first came out, but, ...

The figure for the Dolphin is under 0.1%, and usage is about the same as the Inspo. Draeger have done well. The difference in these figures suggests there is something other than rebreather usage that kills divers. Something like equipment design faults.

If you calculate the benefit to society of rebreather manufacturers per body, the figures are quite startling. I use profit as that is what social benefit companies are supposed to create, as opposed to charities. Macabre, but makes one think twice. Normal companies manage $200mn per body, and even aircraft makers manage better than $10mn per body. The figures for rebreather makers seems to be 100 times worse, even giving them the benefit of 10% of sales becoming profit because their accounts were not too enlightening. Makes rebreather manufacture very expensive: it costs the state more than the manufacture benefits.

Cheers,

Alex