Thinking gauges for a minute......

6Gill · 13th October 2006, 13:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by pattimegdiver)

Could anyone tell me the percentage of failure rate on gauges?
I have been diving over a year with the same gauges and have not had any problems (now I say that I probably will)
Maybe it is a comfort thing I check my gauges before I dive, and during my dive, and then for my post dive check. When diving last week, checked my gauges, went for a dive, checked my gauge when I got out of the water. Prior to the next dive I checked them again, found I had lost 300psi, so I had a small leak and traced it back to the o-ring, on the cylinder. You never know it could be a start of something to go wrong. I guess I am just cautious.

Can't tell you the percentage, but the most problematic point on a spg is the spool, they should be pulled, cleaned and O rings changed at least annually if not semi-annually. Beyond that good care and maintenance should prevent major failures.

I can see the point on the button guages, I use one on my argon bottle but prefer spgs on my unit. The problem I have with button guages is hyperoxic myopia, even with cheaters in my mask they are difficult for me to read uw.

Jordan · 13th October 2006, 15:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

This is kinda like the argument I've gotten into over cave diving when you donate gas. There's a "dogma" that says you show the donee your SPG so he knows how much gas you have, and you look at it too.

Why? Either you have enough to get out, or you don't. If you don't you're dead. If its marginal knowing 20 minutes ahead of time that you may be dead is likely to make it happen!

Semi-Hijack: This reminds me of something I heard before and is a fun thought-provoking scenario: I know this is Rebreather world, but whatever--Speaking of open circuit cave diving with a set of manifolded doubles --2 man team -- Your buddy has a complete out of gas incident at maximum penetration (you are at thirds). This is a complete oh fudge situation ... you know that you can get out on half of your remaining gas supply but you should be afraid that your buddy is going to breathe more than you and may deplete your gas and therefore you both die. How about this -- immediately after donating your long hose to your buddy, you turn around and show him that you are closing your isolator valve giving each of you the same amount of gas to exit on. Tough decision, huh? Do you trust that your buddy will keep his cool and not raise his SAC rate allowing you to both get out? I know you shouldn't put yourselves in this situation due to gas matching and stuff, but what if?

caver95 · 13th October 2006, 16:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jordan)

Semi-Hijack: This reminds me of something I heard before and is a fun thought-provoking scenario: I know this is Rebreather world, but whatever--Speaking of open circuit cave diving with a set of manifolded doubles --2 man team -- Your buddy has a complete out of gas incident at maximum penetration (you are at thirds). This is a complete oh fudge situation ... you know that you can get out on half of your remaining gas supply but you should be afraid that your buddy is going to breathe more than you and may deplete your gas and therefore you both die. How about this -- immediately after donating your long hose to your buddy, you turn around and show him that you are closing your isolator valve giving each of you the same amount of gas to exit on. Tough decision, huh? Do you trust that your buddy will keep his cool and not raise his SAC rate allowing you to both get out? I know you shouldn't put yourselves in this situation due to gas matching and stuff, but what if?

You mean you dont do that?

Genesis · 13th October 2006, 17:53

That's a bad scenario no matter how you try to handle it - but how realistic is it? A complete OOG at thirds either means (1) RADICAL inattention to one's gas consumption, (2) a simultaneous double failure or (3) two separate failures during the dive with the first one being intentionally iginored.

Only (2) falls into "act of god and not your fault"; the other two (which are the far more likely) are IMHO definitely your fault (the person OOG) and IMHO he/she is lucky to get half of your reserve in that scenario.

Let's say you close the isolator. He overbreathes his "half". Do you think he's going to go quietly, or try to kill you to get what's left, and do you think you can both fight him off AND exit on what's remaining?

If you're going to close the isolator you might want to think about it while he's leading and can't see you do it.....

decoweenie · 13th October 2006, 19:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Let's say you close the isolator. He overbreathes his "half". Do you think he's going to go quietly, or try to kill you to get what's left, and do you think you can both fight him off AND exit on what's remaining?

Exactly!

13th October 2006, 13:42	#31 (permalink)
6Gill Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 116	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by pattimegdiver) Could anyone tell me the percentage of failure rate on gauges? I have been diving over a year with the same gauges and have not had any problems (now I say that I probably will) Maybe it is a comfort thing I check my gauges before I dive, and during my dive, and then for my post dive check. When diving last week, checked my gauges, went for a dive, checked my gauge when I got out of the water. Prior to the next dive I checked them again, found I had lost 300psi, so I had a small leak and traced it back to the o-ring, on the cylinder. You never know it could be a start of something to go wrong. I guess I am just cautious. Can't tell you the percentage, but the most problematic point on a spg is the spool, they should be pulled, cleaned and O rings changed at least annually if not semi-annually. Beyond that good care and maintenance should prevent major failures. I can see the point on the button guages, I use one on my argon bottle but prefer spgs on my unit. The problem I have with button guages is hyperoxic myopia, even with cheaters in my mask they are difficult for me to read uw.
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13th October 2006, 15:01	#32 (permalink)
Jordan ebt called me stroppy! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Florida Posts: 225	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) This is kinda like the argument I've gotten into over cave diving when you donate gas. There's a "dogma" that says you show the donee your SPG so he knows how much gas you have, and you look at it too. Why? Either you have enough to get out, or you don't. If you don't you're dead. If its marginal knowing 20 minutes ahead of time that you may be dead is likely to make it happen! Semi-Hijack: This reminds me of something I heard before and is a fun thought-provoking scenario: I know this is Rebreather world, but whatever--Speaking of open circuit cave diving with a set of manifolded doubles --2 man team -- Your buddy has a complete out of gas incident at maximum penetration (you are at thirds). This is a complete oh fudge situation ... you know that you can get out on half of your remaining gas supply but you should be afraid that your buddy is going to breathe more than you and may deplete your gas and therefore you both die. How about this -- immediately after donating your long hose to your buddy, you turn around and show him that you are closing your isolator valve giving each of you the same amount of gas to exit on. Tough decision, huh? Do you trust that your buddy will keep his cool and not raise his SAC rate allowing you to both get out? I know you shouldn't put yourselves in this situation due to gas matching and stuff, but what if? __________________ Is it clear? No. Well, let's go anyways. "Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." Thomas Jefferson
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13th October 2006, 16:51	#33 (permalink)
caver95 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: US Posts: 170	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Jordan) Semi-Hijack: This reminds me of something I heard before and is a fun thought-provoking scenario: I know this is Rebreather world, but whatever--Speaking of open circuit cave diving with a set of manifolded doubles --2 man team -- Your buddy has a complete out of gas incident at maximum penetration (you are at thirds). This is a complete oh fudge situation ... you know that you can get out on half of your remaining gas supply but you should be afraid that your buddy is going to breathe more than you and may deplete your gas and therefore you both die. How about this -- immediately after donating your long hose to your buddy, you turn around and show him that you are closing your isolator valve giving each of you the same amount of gas to exit on. Tough decision, huh? Do you trust that your buddy will keep his cool and not raise his SAC rate allowing you to both get out? I know you shouldn't put yourselves in this situation due to gas matching and stuff, but what if? You mean you dont do that? __________________ www.cavetek.com
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13th October 2006, 17:53	#34 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,394	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... That's a bad scenario no matter how you try to handle it - but how realistic is it? A complete OOG at thirds either means (1) RADICAL inattention to one's gas consumption, (2) a simultaneous double failure or (3) two separate failures during the dive with the first one being intentionally iginored. Only (2) falls into "act of god and not your fault"; the other two (which are the far more likely) are IMHO definitely your fault (the person OOG) and IMHO he/she is lucky to get half of your reserve in that scenario. Let's say you close the isolator. He overbreathes his "half". Do you think he's going to go quietly, or try to kill you to get what's left, and do you think you can both fight him off AND exit on what's remaining? If you're going to close the isolator you might want to think about it while he's leading and can't see you do it..... __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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13th October 2006, 19:47	#35 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Let's say you close the isolator. He overbreathes his "half". Do you think he's going to go quietly, or try to kill you to get what's left, and do you think you can both fight him off AND exit on what's remaining? Exactly! __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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