Thinking gauges for a minute......

Joe · 12th October 2006, 12:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

As I'm sure you're aware there is no such thing as a class for a homebuild

If you look hard enough I'm sure there are people who would offer some form of "generic" training with no certification involved.

Whatever you do I wish you the best of luck and I will be following your units success with interest.

dave t · 12th October 2006, 16:18

I only have button gauges on my rig, have done for about two years, I have very easily actuated contigency plans in place in case of lost dil or o2
and I have had too many problems with gauges/hoses leaking/bursting.

if you loose dil come up a little and the bag gas will expand or switch on bailout gas which is plugged into loop

if you loose o2 (noticed by SLOWLY dropping po2) run semiclosed and or plug in offboard deco gas, I can run manual on 70% nitrox the solenoid can (almost) do the job on 80%

I Always always check my button gauges before a dive and NEVER dive with less than 100bar of o2 and I never dive solo

works for me

Dave

pchanning · 12th October 2006, 18:31

FWIW I like the KISS principle. I either have enough gas for the dive or I dont... (dive). I have an o2 gauge, as diving an Inspo with a standard case, button gauges are a pain for checking between dives. The o2 gauge is there for convenience, but it is short and I cannot easily see it underwater. I have car 'blind-spot' mirrors on each of my wrists should I relly feel the need but, really, it's because I have a compelling fetish for a clear chest

I do have one for the dil that I can see (but it is either tucked down with the BC hose under my arm and across my front or clipped off a la DIR). It is there as sometimes I use the inboard as bailout on shallow dives. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Anyway, Inspo divers have 2 perfectly good o2 gauges without a HP gauge... the handsets! Works for me.

EDIT: I had a HP gauge fly across a carpark once. Nasty. I would prefer button gauges really.

pattimegdiver · 12th October 2006, 19:34

Could anyone tell me the percentage of failure rate on gauges?
I have been diving over a year with the same gauges and have not had any problems (now I say that I probably will)
Maybe it is a comfort thing I check my gauges before I dive, and during my dive, and then for my post dive check. When diving last week, checked my gauges, went for a dive, checked my gauge when I got out of the water. Prior to the next dive I checked them again, found I had lost 300psi, so I had a small leak and traced it back to the o-ring, on the cylinder. You never know it could be a start of something to go wrong. I guess I am just cautious.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 13th October 2006, 03:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

. . . by knowing that it is going to happen (i.e. via the SPG), the diver anticipates it, prepares multiple contigency back-up options to be ready and executes them with no stress.

That's why I kept mine. The concept of using button gauges was discussed during my training. However, I made the decision to keep my standard gauges. Really, they don't take up that much room.

Joe · 13th October 2006, 03:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by pattimegdiver)

.... When diving last week, checked my gauges, went for a dive, checked my gauge when I got out of the water. Prior to the next dive I checked them again, found I had lost 300psi, so I had a small leak and traced it back to the o-ring, on the cylinder.

Button gauges would have shown that drop in pressure but, more importantly, you are wise to stay within your own personal comfort zone.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 13th October 2006, 03:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe)

What you THINK you will do and what you ACTUALLY do when you are 2 breaths and 30 seconds away from the Grim Reaper are often times very different. Until you have walked in those shoes you do not know.

Absolutely. Okay, I have a little confession to make here. It's really pretty silly, but I think it illustrates the point.

Sometimes, things become so routine that you are doing them without thinking about them. As a result of this, here is what happened to me one day when I was practicing a solenoid stuck open drill.

So, I am swimming along, monitoring PO2, opening and shutting the valve per the drill. As I am doing so, I am thinking: "What would I do next if this were the real thing?" I am pretending that I have a long passage to swim before I can go to the surface.

Through rote memorization, I am touching around my equipment, making sure of being able to reach my OC regulator, working the valves, etc. I decide to look down and take a quick glance at my gauges. Really, I did this without thinking about it. (After all, I am already accustomed to looking at them every so often during the dive normally anyway.) I mean, I knew that I had plenty of gas before the dive. However, I looked down without thinking about it.

"Okay, no problem, 2200 psi of diluent. Let's look at the O2 gauge. What?! Zero psi!!!!!" For a second there, my brain forgot that I had the valve shut and all gas out of the line because I was working the valve at the tank with my hand. I mean, on the one hand, I knew that I was in the middle of the drill. But, on the other hand, the mind expects to look at the gauge, seeing that one has plenty of gas as during a normal dive before the rote memorization mind recalls: "Hey, idiot, you are in the middle of the drill. Of course your gauge should read zero. Duh!!!!"

For that second there, my mind was racing.

Don't think you will handle things so cooly as you do during a drill when it is the real thing and you grasp the possible outcome of the situation.

**nigelh** · 13th October 2006, 07:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Use a button gauge

ARGH!!!
I wouldn't put one of those things on something important like gas I want too breath.
I have seen two spontaneously dismantle themselves dumping the gas supply.

Once you eliminate that the length of the hose does not seem to make the system less safe so I'll have the gauge where I can include it in my "ready to dive" check. If I was going to dump a gauge as unimportant it would be the DIL.

lizardland · 13th October 2006, 08:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by pattimegdiver)

Could anyone tell me the percentage of failure rate on gauges?

I must admit, the only things that I have ever had fail badly on a reg have been gauges. Or rather the hoses and/or the swivels.

Paul Vinten · 13th October 2006, 11:47

Without entering the for or against gauges argument, what I have done on my Classic KISS is to replace the HP hose & gauges with 2 wireless transmitters to integrate with my Oceanic Atom computer.

Before you all start going on about Oceanic gear, I got this for free, and I use it in gauge mode only as my backup. HOWEVER, the only good point about it is that it can connect to up to 3 wireless transmitters and switch between them & gases (for OC divers) under water.

Therefore, I can check both my dil & O2 on my wrist with the simple push of a button (or 2).

I was at first a bit dubious about this as I thought the counterlung case might interfere with the signal, but much to my surprise I have encountered no problems whatsover with this solution to where to route hoses or whether to bother with gauges.

While I wouldn't recommend the Oceanic Atom as a standalone dive computer, I have managed to find a use for it finally

12th October 2006, 12:18	#21 (permalink)
Joe Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 273	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) As I'm sure you're aware there is no such thing as a class for a homebuild If you look hard enough I'm sure there are people who would offer some form of "generic" training with no certification involved. Whatever you do I wish you the best of luck and I will be following your units success with interest.
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12th October 2006, 16:18	#22 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 654	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... I only have button gauges on my rig, have done for about two years, I have very easily actuated contigency plans in place in case of lost dil or o2 and I have had too many problems with gauges/hoses leaking/bursting. if you loose dil come up a little and the bag gas will expand or switch on bailout gas which is plugged into loop if you loose o2 (noticed by SLOWLY dropping po2) run semiclosed and or plug in offboard deco gas, I can run manual on 70% nitrox the solenoid can (almost) do the job on 80% I Always always check my button gauges before a dive and NEVER dive with less than 100bar of o2 and I never dive solo works for me Dave
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12th October 2006, 18:31	#23 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... FWIW I like the KISS principle. I either have enough gas for the dive or I dont... (dive). I have an o2 gauge, as diving an Inspo with a standard case, button gauges are a pain for checking between dives. The o2 gauge is there for convenience, but it is short and I cannot easily see it underwater. I have car 'blind-spot' mirrors on each of my wrists should I relly feel the need but, really, it's because I have a compelling fetish for a clear chest I do have one for the dil that I can see (but it is either tucked down with the BC hose under my arm and across my front or clipped off a la DIR). It is there as sometimes I use the inboard as bailout on shallow dives. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. Anyway, Inspo divers have 2 perfectly good o2 gauges without a HP gauge... the handsets! Works for me. EDIT: I had a HP gauge fly across a carpark once. Nasty. I would prefer button gauges really. __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival. Last edited by pchanning : 12th October 2006 at 18:34.
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12th October 2006, 19:34	#24 (permalink)
pattimegdiver #1 COPIS Mini Meg Girl Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 307	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Could anyone tell me the percentage of failure rate on gauges? I have been diving over a year with the same gauges and have not had any problems (now I say that I probably will) Maybe it is a comfort thing I check my gauges before I dive, and during my dive, and then for my post dive check. When diving last week, checked my gauges, went for a dive, checked my gauge when I got out of the water. Prior to the next dive I checked them again, found I had lost 300psi, so I had a small leak and traced it back to the o-ring, on the cylinder. You never know it could be a start of something to go wrong. I guess I am just cautious. __________________ Patti Meg Diver Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk
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13th October 2006, 03:14	#25 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,132	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) . . . by knowing that it is going to happen (i.e. via the SPG), the diver anticipates it, prepares multiple contigency back-up options to be ready and executes them with no stress. That's why I kept mine. The concept of using button gauges was discussed during my training. However, I made the decision to keep my standard gauges. Really, they don't take up that much room. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Online)

13th October 2006, 03:17	#26 (permalink)
Joe Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 273	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by pattimegdiver) .... When diving last week, checked my gauges, went for a dive, checked my gauge when I got out of the water. Prior to the next dive I checked them again, found I had lost 300psi, so I had a small leak and traced it back to the o-ring, on the cylinder. Button gauges would have shown that drop in pressure but, more importantly, you are wise to stay within your own personal comfort zone.
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13th October 2006, 03:30	#27 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,132	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe) What you THINK you will do and what you ACTUALLY do when you are 2 breaths and 30 seconds away from the Grim Reaper are often times very different. Until you have walked in those shoes you do not know. Absolutely. Okay, I have a little confession to make here. It's really pretty silly, but I think it illustrates the point. Sometimes, things become so routine that you are doing them without thinking about them. As a result of this, here is what happened to me one day when I was practicing a solenoid stuck open drill. So, I am swimming along, monitoring PO2, opening and shutting the valve per the drill. As I am doing so, I am thinking: "What would I do next if this were the real thing?" I am pretending that I have a long passage to swim before I can go to the surface. Through rote memorization, I am touching around my equipment, making sure of being able to reach my OC regulator, working the valves, etc. I decide to look down and take a quick glance at my gauges. Really, I did this without thinking about it. (After all, I am already accustomed to looking at them every so often during the dive normally anyway.) I mean, I knew that I had plenty of gas before the dive. However, I looked down without thinking about it. "Okay, no problem, 2200 psi of diluent. Let's look at the O2 gauge. What?! Zero psi!!!!!" For a second there, my brain forgot that I had the valve shut and all gas out of the line because I was working the valve at the tank with my hand. I mean, on the one hand, I knew that I was in the middle of the drill. But, on the other hand, the mind expects to look at the gauge, seeing that one has plenty of gas as during a normal dive before the rote memorization mind recalls: "Hey, idiot, you are in the middle of the drill. Of course your gauge should read zero. Duh!!!!" For that second there, my mind was racing. Don't think you will handle things so cooly as you do during a drill when it is the real thing and you grasp the possible outcome of the situation. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Online)

13th October 2006, 07:59	#28 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 838	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Use a button gauge ARGH!!! I wouldn't put one of those things on something important like gas I want too breath. I have seen two spontaneously dismantle themselves dumping the gas supply. Once you eliminate that the length of the hose does not seem to make the system less safe so I'll have the gauge where I can include it in my "ready to dive" check. If I was going to dump a gauge as unimportant it would be the DIL. __________________ nigelh
(Online)

13th October 2006, 08:56	#29 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,302	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Quote: (Originally Posted by pattimegdiver) Could anyone tell me the percentage of failure rate on gauges? I must admit, the only things that I have ever had fail badly on a reg have been gauges. Or rather the hoses and/or the swivels. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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13th October 2006, 11:47	#30 (permalink)
Paul Vinten New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Hurghada, Egypt Posts: 33	Re: Thinking gauges for a minute...... Without entering the for or against gauges argument, what I have done on my Classic KISS is to replace the HP hose & gauges with 2 wireless transmitters to integrate with my Oceanic Atom computer. Before you all start going on about Oceanic gear, I got this for free, and I use it in gauge mode only as my backup. HOWEVER, the only good point about it is that it can connect to up to 3 wireless transmitters and switch between them & gases (for OC divers) under water. Therefore, I can check both my dil & O2 on my wrist with the simple push of a button (or 2). I was at first a bit dubious about this as I thought the counterlung case might interfere with the signal, but much to my surprise I have encountered no problems whatsover with this solution to where to route hoses or whether to bother with gauges. While I wouldn't recommend the Oceanic Atom as a standalone dive computer, I have managed to find a use for it finally __________________ Living on the edge might be dangerous, but it has a great view If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much room www.tekstremediving.com Technical diving in the Red Sea
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