AGGGHH! What would YOU do?

Yankee Rebel · 12th September 2006, 18:41

DrMike, first im sorry that you had such a hard and expensive time of things! thats truely a tough spot to be in.

the first thing i myself would have considered is 'is anyone depending on me to be there, am i obligated morally and by honor to be there?'
the second thing id ask myself is 'how important is this trip to me?'
the third would be 'do i have the money to pay this rape?'

then i would have a quite serious question for the person behind the counter, said with a straight face, and with complete sincerity:
"Do i get any lube with these exhorbant charges? Any Crisco, Astroglide, KY, Olive Oil, wheel bearing grease even? Could you atleast wipe the sand off it? Is there anything we can do to minimize these charges, because im REALLY feeling like im getting F__KED here! The last time i flew, and all the times before that, wich are numerous, i have only been charged $XXX.XX for this same amount of baggage on this very same and other airlines, and now you are wanting to charge me THIS!?!?? this is not right, what can be done about it?"

chances are that after the initial shock wore off, then the smirking and muffled giggles subside, youd still end up having to figure out how badly you wanted to go on the trip, and if you were bound by any moral obligations or honor to be there. if i could afford to pay the charges, id pay them grudgingly, and id make sure that i told the supervisor that Divers make up a good portion of all International flights, and if this was how Divers were going to be treated, neither myself, nor ANY diver i know would ever fly their airline again. i would then imply that i was part of a VERY large dive club that had a VERY large trip planned to XYZ country and if this was how you were going to be treated as a solo diver on an experimental trip to a destination, just to get the feel for an airline, that NONE of your party would be using that airline, and that the airline would be out a significant amount of money shorterm as well as longterm. id not expect this to really get me much leverage, but it may help alitle. ive used simular in the past once or twice when forced to with varying degrees of success. never with an airline though.

for me, things would likely end about there. a trip like what you describe, or even just a trip to Hawaii, or to Cabo or whatever, would most likely take up the good portion of what money i had saved for that trip. i probly wouldnt have any extra left over to pay for unforseen situations like that. with that in mind, id be left with 2 choices.. 1 dont go, and 2 offer to take a bum or change my ticket to a later flight out, and take my gear back home, and resort it and slim it down. make due with what i could afford to cover in charges, and not make as many dives as id originally planned. itd likely be a p!sspoor comprimise, but thered not be much else i could do about it.

whatever the case, id make it a point to avoid flying the airline that just screwed me, unless im absolutely forced to.

another option would be after taking a bump or rescheduling your flight for a later time or date, a quick check with the other airlines on their over the limit charges might be in order. the ticket might cost more, but their charges may be less.

im thinking outloud here as i dont even fly in the US anymore. not after my dealings with their security people and screenings... ive got a real problem with someone that cant hardly speak english grabbin my goods and hasseling myself and my family and abusing their "power". i made it a point not to fly domestically anymore, ill drive and take the 3 days to get where i need to go.

Alex!! Great post!! thats going to help ALOT of people!! myself included eventually!! beat them at their own game!

Yankee Rebel

RebreatherDave · 12th September 2006, 23:34

I think it would be useful to post which airlines have tried to screw us over.

I have flown on Cathay Pacific and had two check in bags at 72 lbs each....one held my FX1 HiDef setup with HID lights and some kit, the 2nd bag held my CCR less cylinders, but included all the rest of my dive gear and 13cf bailout bottle. Cathay gave me no issues, and did not weigh my 30 lb carry-on.....Plus they had a flat panel TV in the back of every seat.

Philippines Airlines tried to charge me $400 on my return trip for bags that weighed the same as on my departure trip, then inexplicably said they had a problem with their scale and waived the fee. They were fine with two bags at 70lbs each as long as I was a diver, but they were strict abotu carry-on weight.

Andy Del · 13th September 2006, 05:56

The cost of anything going anywhere is rising fast. I've just imported a musical instrument from Vancouver to Sydney, from no less than a hyperbaric physician who wants to get into CCRs.

It had a volumetric weight of 16.9kg.

Post was US$750

Consolidated freight was US$860

UPS US$560, with a personal business account which they wouldn't let me open...

DHL US$510, same deal... I need to have my own registered company.

I finally got it shipped by a contact at US$350. Took all of 2 days and was delivered to my office the next morning. I await the bill with addditional GST added joyously...

There must be a few popular dive destinations which would profit greatly from having a few hire CCRs... A couple of inspos, a few KISSs and you'd be laughing.

***caveseeker7*** · 13th September 2006, 06:49

Guess I lucked out when I brought two overweight suitcases to the Lufthansa counter and all they did was ask me to do some rearranging into a third bag and charge me for that extra bag.

Eco class, 2x 23 kg (1st gets 2x 32 kg). My stainless SK with backplate, bladder, tools and stuff in a Pelican 1650 came in at 42 kg. The heavy bag weight in at 48 kg, and that's where they pulled the breaks. Everything over 45 kg is Air Freight at LH, so I bought a $16 soft bag and stuffed 10 kg of stuff into it. They charged me $170 for the extra piece of luggage and let the two overweight ones slide.

Good idea worth trying, Alex.

But remembering the pictures of another recent threat Mr. Boris Ouro might be better off insisting on his seat.

Genesis · 13th September 2006, 12:52

I used to "counter-ship" very expensive and fragile stuff via United and what was called "Delta Dash" all the time out of Chicago. You rolled up, dropped it off, and someone at the other end in a few hours showed up to claim it. It was reasonably cheap all things considered - cheaper than FedEX most of the time for a given dimension and weight.

After 9/11 and Lockerbie that all disappeared. Try it now and that sort of service is "unobtanium".

I like the "Mr. Boris" or "Mr. Meg" route, but as noted, you have to get on the flight and sit next to him, as unaccompanied minors are considered verboten when they're under five

If the airline had tried to provide me with the same sort of screwing that was taken here by Mike I would have walked out. $2k one way for excess luggage? Not on my life.

This sort of screwing has become totally routine in the air travel world in the last few years, and I for one avoid playing as much as possible. This means changing plans and not going places I'd like to go, but the vacuum cleaner excuse added to the "someone's gonna blow up the plane" excuse raises the hassle and price factor beyond what I'm willing to pay. I make sure the destinations I'd otherwise go to know I'm not coming and why as well. I've found that the only fix for this sort of stupidity is economics and moaning checking accounts (and not mine either!) on the other end - it takes time for that sort of thing to work its way out, but it WILL, given people making a big enough stink and refusing to spread their cheeks (of their WALLETS, get your minds out of the gutter!) enough times.

Gilles · 14th September 2006, 05:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

So Im standing there at check in, with my Boris and enough gear to support a week of exploring french caves with Jerome on the scales, when she tells me the excess luggage fee will be S$5200 dollars!!!! (over 3k US).

That kinda $ goes a long to buying a make that travels well.

Drmike · 15th September 2006, 22:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

This suggestion might be daft as it is a bit obvious. Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to send it as cargo by air freight if there is that much of it?

yes thats the best option. It costs around 1/3rd of what the airline charges for excess but only trouble is it would have taken 7-10 days to get thers = too late.

You cant buy a 'Boris seat' as suggested -been there tried that.

AD_ward9 · 16th September 2006, 05:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

yes thats the best option. It costs around 1/3rd of what the airline charges for excess but only trouble is it would have taken 7-10 days to get thers = too late.

You cant buy a 'Boris seat' as suggested -been there tried that.

You can't buy it at the airport, but you can buy it from a travel agent, or online. You then turn up with Mr Boris as a fait accompli, and they are fine. If they argue, point to Musicians with instruments.

You cannot do this at the airport: they smell money and "gotchas".

The only airline that refused to play ball was British Airways, even though the did it earlier, but I note from others on this thread that British Airways is now doing this OK again with gear. The two times BA refused, I just went down the hall and used the same pair of tickets on American Airlines, where it was no problem at all.

If you found another airline who refused to do this, please post their name, because I use this method quite often and so will avoid them. Also, which airline was it that stung for you for the $3200?

By the way, if going to the US from the UK, the best airline right now is Zoom. This is a Canadian airline, run by a Scot, that gives decent baggage and really does allow both heavy sports equipment and tickets for gear. It means using Canada as a hub for the US, but the price & service is great.

Cheers,
Alex

nmanfield · 16th September 2006, 08:47

When I bought my Meg, one of the main drivers behind this was the ability to travel with it. I found that within standard flight carriage rules I was able to take the Meg canister and head (assembled) in a tough box – stormcase 2500. I drilled a couple of holes in the box where the STA bolts were and was then able to fix the nuts on the outside of the case. The rest of the stuff could go in lighter weight bags (being less prone to damage) rather than heavy plastic boxes and the weight in baggage holds was less than 30Kg. Great until the new airline rules came into place within the UK and other countries that followed suit.

With the new regime I emailed British Airways to ask whether my hold baggage allowance would now be increased seeing as I’ve effectively no longer got a hand baggage allowance. I never received a reply (I get the feeling that this question got shunted into the ‘too difficult’ pile).

From now on it may mean that the Meg will have to go in the hold and in the current security environment You can bet how it looks on an x-ray machine! All those lovely cable and wires, interesting densities and a nice thick metal cylinder mmmm! I am now unable to explain to the security guys what it is and can expect to not expect to see my Meg again when I arrive at the arrivals hall.

However, I was wondering what can be done to decrease the weight of a rebreather, specifically the Meg. The biggest single change could be made in the can IMHO. Does anyone out there know if it would be possible to make it out of another material? I would have thought that plastic would make it too buoyant, carbon fibre would be nice – but are there cracking, shearing issues? Titanium might be very good but I don’t know how well it reacts to high O2 levels within the can. Obviously there is a price issue also.

Just a general chunter but I would welcome what any grown-ups out there have to say

Thanks ,

Nick

Drmike · 16th September 2006, 11:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

You can't buy it at the airport, but you can buy it from a travel agent, or online. You then turn up with Mr Boris as a fait accompli, and they are fine. If they argue, point to Musicians with instruments.

You cannot do this at the airport: they smell money and "gotchas".

The only airline that refused to play ball was British Airways, even though the did it earlier, but I note from others on this thread that British Airways is now doing this OK again with gear. The two times BA refused, I just went down the hall and used the same pair of tickets on American Airlines, where it was no problem at all.

If you found another airline who refused to do this, please post their name, because I use this method quite often and so will avoid them. Also, which airline was it that stung for you for the $3200?

By the way, if going to the US from the UK, the best airline right now is Zoom. This is a Canadian airline, run by a Scot, that gives decent baggage and really does allow both heavy sports equipment and tickets for gear. It means using Canada as a hub for the US, but the price & service is great.

Cheers,
Alex

Well this has not been my experience. I have bought extra seats (before and at the airport) on some small airlines running internal flights in parts of asia (Manila-Busuanga for eg.) and on some internal flights in Indonesia. But these were all on small local run 'rural' routes and companys. The big international airlines will not let you do this in my experience. No way. Ive tried.

BA/SQ/UA/NW all in my experience will not.

Who have you done this with?

12th September 2006, 18:41	#21 (permalink)
Yankee Rebel Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 147	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? DrMike, first im sorry that you had such a hard and expensive time of things! thats truely a tough spot to be in. the first thing i myself would have considered is 'is anyone depending on me to be there, am i obligated morally and by honor to be there?' the second thing id ask myself is 'how important is this trip to me?' the third would be 'do i have the money to pay this rape?' then i would have a quite serious question for the person behind the counter, said with a straight face, and with complete sincerity: "Do i get any lube with these exhorbant charges? Any Crisco, Astroglide, KY, Olive Oil, wheel bearing grease even? Could you atleast wipe the sand off it? Is there anything we can do to minimize these charges, because im REALLY feeling like im getting F__KED here! The last time i flew, and all the times before that, wich are numerous, i have only been charged $XXX.XX for this same amount of baggage on this very same and other airlines, and now you are wanting to charge me THIS!?!?? this is not right, what can be done about it?" chances are that after the initial shock wore off, then the smirking and muffled giggles subside, youd still end up having to figure out how badly you wanted to go on the trip, and if you were bound by any moral obligations or honor to be there. if i could afford to pay the charges, id pay them grudgingly, and id make sure that i told the supervisor that Divers make up a good portion of all International flights, and if this was how Divers were going to be treated, neither myself, nor ANY diver i know would ever fly their airline again. i would then imply that i was part of a VERY large dive club that had a VERY large trip planned to XYZ country and if this was how you were going to be treated as a solo diver on an experimental trip to a destination, just to get the feel for an airline, that NONE of your party would be using that airline, and that the airline would be out a significant amount of money shorterm as well as longterm. id not expect this to really get me much leverage, but it may help alitle. ive used simular in the past once or twice when forced to with varying degrees of success. never with an airline though. for me, things would likely end about there. a trip like what you describe, or even just a trip to Hawaii, or to Cabo or whatever, would most likely take up the good portion of what money i had saved for that trip. i probly wouldnt have any extra left over to pay for unforseen situations like that. with that in mind, id be left with 2 choices.. 1 dont go, and 2 offer to take a bum or change my ticket to a later flight out, and take my gear back home, and resort it and slim it down. make due with what i could afford to cover in charges, and not make as many dives as id originally planned. itd likely be a p!sspoor comprimise, but thered not be much else i could do about it. whatever the case, id make it a point to avoid flying the airline that just screwed me, unless im absolutely forced to. another option would be after taking a bump or rescheduling your flight for a later time or date, a quick check with the other airlines on their over the limit charges might be in order. the ticket might cost more, but their charges may be less. im thinking outloud here as i dont even fly in the US anymore. not after my dealings with their security people and screenings... ive got a real problem with someone that cant hardly speak english grabbin my goods and hasseling myself and my family and abusing their "power". i made it a point not to fly domestically anymore, ill drive and take the 3 days to get where i need to go. Alex!! Great post!! thats going to help ALOT of people!! myself included eventually!! beat them at their own game! Yankee Rebel
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12th September 2006, 23:34	#22 (permalink)
RebreatherDave Maximum **** Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s:** Join Date: May 2005 Location: L.A., where the debris meets the sea Posts: 227	Cathay.... I think it would be useful to post which airlines have tried to screw us over. I have flown on Cathay Pacific and had two check in bags at 72 lbs each....one held my FX1 HiDef setup with HID lights and some kit, the 2nd bag held my CCR less cylinders, but included all the rest of my dive gear and 13cf bailout bottle. Cathay gave me no issues, and did not weigh my 30 lb carry-on.....Plus they had a flat panel TV in the back of every seat. Philippines Airlines tried to charge me $400 on my return trip for bags that weighed the same as on my departure trip, then inexplicably said they had a problem with their scale and waived the fee. They were fine with two bags at 70lbs each as long as I was a diver, but they were strict abotu carry-on weight.
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13th September 2006, 05:56	#23 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 413	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? The cost of anything going anywhere is rising fast. I've just imported a musical instrument from Vancouver to Sydney, from no less than a hyperbaric physician who wants to get into CCRs. It had a volumetric weight of 16.9kg. Post was US$750 Consolidated freight was US$860 UPS US$560, with a personal business account which they wouldn't let me open... DHL US$510, same deal... I need to have my own registered company. I finally got it shipped by a contact at US$350. Took all of 2 days and was delivered to my office the next morning. I await the bill with addditional GST added joyously... There must be a few popular dive destinations which would profit greatly from having a few hire CCRs... A couple of inspos, a few KISSs and you'd be laughing. __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
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13th September 2006, 06:49	#24 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: AGGGHH! Guess I lucked out when I brought two overweight suitcases to the Lufthansa counter and all they did was ask me to do some rearranging into a third bag and charge me for that extra bag. Eco class, 2x 23 kg (1st gets 2x 32 kg). My stainless SK with backplate, bladder, tools and stuff in a Pelican 1650 came in at 42 kg. The heavy bag weight in at 48 kg, and that's where they pulled the breaks. Everything over 45 kg is Air Freight at LH, so I bought a $16 soft bag and stuffed 10 kg of stuff into it. They charged me $170 for the extra piece of luggage and let the two overweight ones slide. Good idea worth trying, Alex. But remembering the pictures of another recent threat Mr. Boris Ouro might be better off insisting on his seat. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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13th September 2006, 12:52	#25 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,394	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? I used to "counter-ship" very expensive and fragile stuff via United and what was called "Delta Dash" all the time out of Chicago. You rolled up, dropped it off, and someone at the other end in a few hours showed up to claim it. It was reasonably cheap all things considered - cheaper than FedEX most of the time for a given dimension and weight. After 9/11 and Lockerbie that all disappeared. Try it now and that sort of service is "unobtanium". I like the "Mr. Boris" or "Mr. Meg" route, but as noted, you have to get on the flight and sit next to him, as unaccompanied minors are considered verboten when they're under five If the airline had tried to provide me with the same sort of screwing that was taken here by Mike I would have walked out. $2k one way for excess luggage? Not on my life. This sort of screwing has become totally routine in the air travel world in the last few years, and I for one avoid playing as much as possible. This means changing plans and not going places I'd like to go, but the vacuum cleaner excuse added to the "someone's gonna blow up the plane" excuse raises the hassle and price factor beyond what I'm willing to pay. I make sure the destinations I'd otherwise go to know I'm not coming and why as well. I've found that the only fix for this sort of stupidity is economics and moaning checking accounts (and not mine either!) on the other end - it takes time for that sort of thing to work its way out, but it WILL, given people making a big enough stink and refusing to spread their cheeks (of their WALLETS, get your minds out of the gutter!) enough times. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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14th September 2006, 05:12	#26 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) So Im standing there at check in, with my Boris and enough gear to support a week of exploring french caves with Jerome on the scales, when she tells me the excess luggage fee will be S$5200 dollars!!!! (over 3k US). That kinda $ goes a long to buying a make that travels well. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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15th September 2006, 22:41	#27 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,161	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) This suggestion might be daft as it is a bit obvious. Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to send it as cargo by air freight if there is that much of it? yes thats the best option. It costs around 1/3rd of what the airline charges for excess but only trouble is it would have taken 7-10 days to get thers = too late. You cant buy a 'Boris seat' as suggested -been there tried that. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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16th September 2006, 05:13	#28 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) yes thats the best option. It costs around 1/3rd of what the airline charges for excess but only trouble is it would have taken 7-10 days to get thers = too late. You cant buy a 'Boris seat' as suggested -been there tried that. You can't buy it at the airport, but you can buy it from a travel agent, or online. You then turn up with Mr Boris as a fait accompli, and they are fine. If they argue, point to Musicians with instruments. You cannot do this at the airport: they smell money and "gotchas". The only airline that refused to play ball was British Airways, even though the did it earlier, but I note from others on this thread that British Airways is now doing this OK again with gear. The two times BA refused, I just went down the hall and used the same pair of tickets on American Airlines, where it was no problem at all. If you found another airline who refused to do this, please post their name, because I use this method quite often and so will avoid them. Also, which airline was it that stung for you for the $3200? By the way, if going to the US from the UK, the best airline right now is Zoom. This is a Canadian airline, run by a Scot, that gives decent baggage and really does allow both heavy sports equipment and tickets for gear. It means using Canada as a hub for the US, but the price & service is great. Cheers, Alex
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16th September 2006, 08:47	#29 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? When I bought my Meg, one of the main drivers behind this was the ability to travel with it. I found that within standard flight carriage rules I was able to take the Meg canister and head (assembled) in a tough box – stormcase 2500. I drilled a couple of holes in the box where the STA bolts were and was then able to fix the nuts on the outside of the case. The rest of the stuff could go in lighter weight bags (being less prone to damage) rather than heavy plastic boxes and the weight in baggage holds was less than 30Kg. Great until the new airline rules came into place within the UK and other countries that followed suit. With the new regime I emailed British Airways to ask whether my hold baggage allowance would now be increased seeing as I’ve effectively no longer got a hand baggage allowance. I never received a reply (I get the feeling that this question got shunted into the ‘too difficult’ pile). From now on it may mean that the Meg will have to go in the hold and in the current security environment You can bet how it looks on an x-ray machine! All those lovely cable and wires, interesting densities and a nice thick metal cylinder mmmm! I am now unable to explain to the security guys what it is and can expect to not expect to see my Meg again when I arrive at the arrivals hall. However, I was wondering what can be done to decrease the weight of a rebreather, specifically the Meg. The biggest single change could be made in the can IMHO. Does anyone out there know if it would be possible to make it out of another material? I would have thought that plastic would make it too buoyant, carbon fibre would be nice – but are there cracking, shearing issues? Titanium might be very good but I don’t know how well it reacts to high O2 levels within the can. Obviously there is a price issue also. Just a general chunter but I would welcome what any grown-ups out there have to say Thanks , Nick __________________ Tub 'O Lard
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16th September 2006, 11:46	#30 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,161	Re: AGGGHH! What would YOU do? Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) You can't buy it at the airport, but you can buy it from a travel agent, or online. You then turn up with Mr Boris as a fait accompli, and they are fine. If they argue, point to Musicians with instruments. You cannot do this at the airport: they smell money and "gotchas". The only airline that refused to play ball was British Airways, even though the did it earlier, but I note from others on this thread that British Airways is now doing this OK again with gear. The two times BA refused, I just went down the hall and used the same pair of tickets on American Airlines, where it was no problem at all. If you found another airline who refused to do this, please post their name, because I use this method quite often and so will avoid them. Also, which airline was it that stung for you for the $3200? By the way, if going to the US from the UK, the best airline right now is Zoom. This is a Canadian airline, run by a Scot, that gives decent baggage and really does allow both heavy sports equipment and tickets for gear. It means using Canada as a hub for the US, but the price & service is great. Cheers, Alex Well this has not been my experience. I have bought extra seats (before and at the airport) on some small airlines running internal flights in parts of asia (Manila-Busuanga for eg.) and on some internal flights in Indonesia. But these were all on small local run 'rural' routes and companys. The big international airlines will not let you do this in my experience. No way. Ive tried. BA/SQ/UA/NW all in my experience will not. Who have you done this with? __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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