CCR standardized practice

louisrankin · 30th August 2006, 21:21

Depth-Junkie

What Gas do you use to fill your lift bags/DSMB?

Louis

Depth-junkie · 30th August 2006, 21:26

Quote:

What Gas do you use to fill your lift bags/DSMB?

DSMB (Main is a AP crack bottle)
Spare Red or Yellow (low gas-emergancy) off OC 21m bottle or if bailed to OC off exhaled breath whilst i am on the move up (i did this all the time on my OC trimix days) takes about 2 breaths

As for lift bags i am not to arsed with tat, but when i bother to take a lift bag i use the 21m bottle.

ATB
Gareth

fubari · 31st August 2006, 06:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

Fellers, Instead of focussing on the detail like which side O2 / dil goes on, perhaps an approach could be:
1) Determine a list of all possible underwater events
2) This informs the correct and unique respone in the situation
3) This determines the kit configuration and diver skills required to deal with the situation.

That sounds good, Janos - in fact, it reminds me of this work: Basic Cave Diving: A Blueprint for Survival (Exley).

While I'm not a cave diver, it is my understanding that the approach you're advocating was used to good effect in the caving community.

Keeping "best practices" grounded in concrete examples/incidents will help us temper opinions and maintain our focus. It may also help the "standards are bad" crowd support (or at least not actively oppose) this effort, since it gives them an perspective to judge each "practice" on its relative merits.

John G.

nskdrs · 31st August 2006, 08:39

Too restrictive will run against the wall as usual.

Admittingly it is about protecting the growth of this small market.
The participants should admit this,
stop laughing about DIR, learn from it, many are ages away to get the picture whats exactly is fueling DIR.
Regulation is restrictive but also civilization.

To be stuck into large-ego-contests, use "Darwinizing" to decorate the sideroads with bodies piling up on the long run is IMHO utter BS, highly uncivilized after maybe 10 years.

EVERY technical revolution has been able to emanzipate from life-loss,
aviation, automotive, nuclear power, oil-industry, whatever...

I'm sure this post states nothing terribly unknown.

Attitude and ethics should be accounted first, technical details and practical procedures are secondary.

IMHO this board needs more ethical and practical guidelines in " collection " - threads:

Rebreather World looses too much of its useful information into www.noise.com,
so its not changing the fuzziness of CCR-world effectively....wiki?

Rebreather World may need a tweat in a way that does not make the instructors and manufacturers feel bad.

Ask money for it ( or don't )

Example:

Guidelines-collection moderator sets up thread, the contributing experienced may file their opinion in a few sentences, simple, thumbs up, thumbs down. Economically independant sources, you may know, are best.
The dedicated recipient will be free to make up his mind upon the topic or piece of equipment from the set of intersections.

simple 101's:

- how to protect yourlife from your large ego
- 101 on how to find decent buddies
- 101 on solodiving ( if you want it )
- lov'n hate on oxgensensors
- 101 on how to find the best instructor, quality control ( they will luv it )
- y2c on FFM vs. BOV vs. DSV
- current status on trimix vs. heliox
- emergency procedures
- how to look cool while submerged
- gas choices
- bailoutchoices
- ethics of pre- and postdive sequences
- safety margins
- simplified emergency procedures

its all existant, modern informationsociety is simply about organizing the buffer overflow.

Example:

if the rookie may find ten useful, independant opinions about the extended stupidity to plug an OC-reg into 400l of gas, maybe he will come to the conclusion to refrain from it.

cheers,
hoffi

***EBT*** · 31st August 2006, 08:54

Hoffi,

You're right about signal to noise ratio, thats what the library is supposed to help with. The problem is that the majority of users of internet forums like to "discuss" and it can sometimes be hard for new users to filter appropriately.

As for "learn from DIR".... many of us are happy to learn from any source... the DIR v CCR wars are mostly bullshit, ignored by the people who really do the diving.

A dedicated forum for CCR standard practise may well make sense, Im happy to mod that if need be.

/Z

**Steve** · 31st August 2006, 08:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

We need a volunteer to moderate this thread. Anyone ?

I'm happy to moderate if others are happy with me doing it. A few rules would help though.

Mark Chase · 31st August 2006, 09:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

Hoffi,

You're right about signal to noise ratio, thats what the library is supposed to help with. The problem is that the majority of users of internet forums like to "discuss" and it can sometimes be hard for new users to filter appropriately.

As for "learn from DIR".... many of us are happy to learn from any source... the DIR v CCR wars are mostly bullshit, ignored by the people who really do the diving.

A dedicated forum for CCR standard practise may well make sense, Im happy to mod that if need be.

/Z

So run it like an article on steroids.

Someone (anyone) writes it, it goes before an elected comity for review and editing, If it is deamed the best idea, it gets put up as a closed article with a side page for discussion. The discussion my or may not lead to alteration of the original article.

End result a shed load of closed articles covering the pertinent aspects of the standards with side lines so you can read about how the decisions were made.

ATB

Mark Chase

***EBT*** · 31st August 2006, 09:31

I've got to be honest, Im backing off internet discussions, since they're normally too ego fuelled and the SNR is appalling. However, if theres a desire for a moderated thread/agreed article, Im happy to support it.... you dont change things by watching.

Janos · 31st August 2006, 09:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

A dedicated forum for CCR standard practise may well make sense, Im happy to mod that if need be.

We can but try, and if it all goes tits up, then we can go round and thump Zak.

Janos

***EBT*** · 31st August 2006, 09:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

We can but try, and if it all goes tits up, then we can go round and thump Zak.

You wont need too. Three words; Rioja, Tuaca, Hoegaarden. I think you know where Im coming from.

30th August 2006, 21:21	#31 (permalink)
louisrankin Póg mo thóin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cambridge Posts: 301	Re: CCR standardized practice Depth-Junkie What Gas do you use to fill your lift bags/DSMB? Louis
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30th August 2006, 21:26	#32 (permalink)
Depth-junkie 10/52 Psycho Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wrexham Posts: 291	Re: CCR standardized practice Quote: What Gas do you use to fill your lift bags/DSMB? DSMB (Main is a AP crack bottle) Spare Red or Yellow (low gas-emergancy) off OC 21m bottle or if bailed to OC off exhaled breath whilst i am on the move up (i did this all the time on my OC trimix days) takes about 2 breaths As for lift bags i am not to arsed with tat, but when i bother to take a lift bag i use the 21m bottle. ATB Gareth Last edited by Depth-junkie : 30th August 2006 at 21:30.
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31st August 2006, 06:19	#33 (permalink)
fubari New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 113	Re: CCR standardized practice Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) Fellers, Instead of focussing on the detail like which side O2 / dil goes on, perhaps an approach could be: 1) Determine a list of all possible underwater events 2) This informs the correct and unique respone in the situation 3) This determines the kit configuration and diver skills required to deal with the situation. That sounds *good, Janos - in fact, it reminds me of this work: Basic Cave Diving: A Blueprint for Survival (Exley)*. While I'm not a cave diver, it is my understanding that the approach you're advocating was used to good effect in the caving community. Keeping "best practices" grounded in concrete examples/incidents will help us temper opinions and maintain our focus. It may also help the "standards are bad" crowd support (or at least not actively oppose) this effort, since it gives them an perspective to judge each "practice" on its relative merits. John G.
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31st August 2006, 08:39	#34 (permalink)
nskdrs New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: germany Posts: 80	Re: CCR standardized practice Too restrictive will run against the wall as usual. Admittingly it is about protecting the growth of this small market. The participants should admit this, stop laughing about DIR, learn from it, many are ages away to get the picture whats exactly is fueling DIR. Regulation is restrictive but also civilization. To be stuck into large-ego-contests, use "Darwinizing" to decorate the sideroads with bodies piling up on the long run is IMHO utter BS, highly uncivilized after maybe 10 years. EVERY technical revolution has been able to emanzipate from life-loss, aviation, automotive, nuclear power, oil-industry, whatever... I'm sure this post states nothing terribly unknown. Attitude and ethics should be accounted first, technical details and practical procedures are secondary. IMHO this board needs more ethical and practical guidelines in " collection " - threads: Rebreather World looses too much of its useful information into www.noise.com, so its not changing the fuzziness of CCR-world effectively....wiki? Rebreather World may need a tweat in a way that does not make the instructors and manufacturers feel bad. Ask money for it ( or don't ) Example: Guidelines-collection moderator sets up thread, the contributing experienced may file their opinion in a few sentences, simple, thumbs up, thumbs down. Economically independant sources, you may know, are best. The dedicated recipient will be free to make up his mind upon the topic or piece of equipment from the set of intersections. simple 101's: - how to protect yourlife from your large ego - 101 on how to find decent buddies - 101 on solodiving ( if you want it ) - lov'n hate on oxgensensors - 101 on how to find the best instructor, quality control ( they will luv it ) - y2c on FFM vs. BOV vs. DSV - current status on trimix vs. heliox - emergency procedures - how to look cool while submerged - gas choices - bailoutchoices - ethics of pre- and postdive sequences - safety margins - simplified emergency procedures its all existant, modern informationsociety is simply about organizing the buffer overflow. Example: if the rookie may find ten useful, independant opinions about the extended stupidity to plug an OC-reg into 400l of gas, maybe he will come to the conclusion to refrain from it. cheers, hoffi Last edited by nskdrs : 31st August 2006 at 08:49. Reason: typos
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31st August 2006, 08:54	#35 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,930	Re: CCR standardized practice Hoffi, You're right about signal to noise ratio, thats what the library is supposed to help with. The problem is that the majority of users of internet forums like to "discuss" and it can sometimes be hard for new users to filter appropriately. As for "learn from DIR".... many of us are happy to learn from any source... the DIR v CCR wars are mostly bullshit, ignored by the people who really do the diving. A dedicated forum for CCR standard practise may well make sense, Im happy to mod that if need be. /Z __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

31st August 2006, 08:59	#36 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,100	Re: CCR standardized practice Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) We need a volunteer to moderate this thread. Anyone ? I'm happy to moderate if others are happy with me doing it. A few rules would help though. __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Online)

31st August 2006, 09:09	#37 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,556	Re: CCR standardized practice Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) Hoffi, You're right about signal to noise ratio, thats what the library is supposed to help with. The problem is that the majority of users of internet forums like to "discuss" and it can sometimes be hard for new users to filter appropriately. As for "learn from DIR".... many of us are happy to learn from any source... the DIR v CCR wars are mostly bullshit, ignored by the people who really do the diving. A dedicated forum for CCR standard practise may well make sense, Im happy to mod that if need be. /Z So run it like an article on steroids. Someone (anyone) writes it, it goes before an elected comity for review and editing, If it is deamed the best idea, it gets put up as a closed article with a side page for discussion. The discussion my or may not lead to alteration of the original article. End result a shed load of closed articles covering the pertinent aspects of the standards with side lines so you can read about how the decisions were made. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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31st August 2006, 09:31	#38 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,930	Re: CCR standardized practice I've got to be honest, Im backing off internet discussions, since they're normally too ego fuelled and the SNR is appalling. However, if theres a desire for a moderated thread/agreed article, Im happy to support it.... you dont change things by watching. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

31st August 2006, 09:38	#39 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 594	Re: CCR standardized practice Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) A dedicated forum for CCR standard practise may well make sense, Im happy to mod that if need be. We can but try, and if it all goes tits up, then we can go round and thump Zak. Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
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31st August 2006, 09:44	#40 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,930	Re: CCR standardized practice Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) We can but try, and if it all goes tits up, then we can go round and thump Zak. You wont need too. Three words; Rioja, Tuaca, Hoegaarden. I think you know where Im coming from. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

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