Can anyone advise?

Outlaw · 25th August 2006, 06:58

hello guys, hope you are well.

i am trying to find some sort of alarming my buddy while underwater. i was thinking about those underwater siren horns which connect to your inflator hose...

Can anyone advice on which is the best brand? or any other info or tip given is welcomed.

what happened was that we both use DPVs, when one stops, then is very difficult for the other one to notice and we've had an incident were in very bad visibility conditions things can go very wrong.

Thanks in advance.

Spyros

decoweenie · 25th August 2006, 07:10

If you dive in close proximity with a buddy (as you should, thus the term buddy

) light is the best method for attracting attention. It is fast, instantaneous and goes a long way using the right type of light.

If you need something to find your buddy because you don't dive close enough to keep in visual contact, the u/w horns will work but based on my own experience, they don't last long. And the sound isn't loud enough to be heard over a DPV.

GKAM · 25th August 2006, 08:18

Καλημέρα Σπύρο,

You can try an u/w rattle. They work well and they last for ever.

Basically it is a sealed SS tube with a couple of beads inside that make a lot of noise when you shake them. They are unbreakable

HTH
/George

Outlaw · 26th August 2006, 08:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

If you dive in close proximity with a buddy (as you should, thus the term buddy

) light is the best method for attracting attention. It is fast, instantaneous and goes a long way using the right type of light.

If you need something to find your buddy because you don't dive close enough to keep in visual contact, the u/w horns will work but based on my own experience, they don't last long. And the sound isn't loud enough to be heard over a DPV.

Thanks for the advice on the buddy term!!

well, the thing is that we were both scootering and it was very bad vis conditions and when one stops for something, how can i alert the other one that he has to stop as well. even if he checks every minute then you can still get lost.

which horns did you use? is there a specific one?

Thanks for letting me know.

Spyros

Outlaw · 26th August 2006, 08:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by GKAM)

Καλημέρα Σπύρο,

You can try an u/w rattle. They work well and they last for ever.

Basically it is a sealed SS tube with a couple of beads inside that make a lot of noise when you shake them. They are unbreakable

HTH
/George

ευχαριστώ αδελφέ,

το θέμα είναι αν θα μπορεί ο άλλος να το ακούσει όταν και οι 2 έχουμε σκούτερ...είναι αρκετά δυνατός ο ήχος του σκούτερ. τα είχα υπόψη μου, απλά σκεφτόμουν αυτές τις σειρήνες. τι λές;

Thanks bro,

Spyros

decoweenie · 26th August 2006, 08:51

I understand what you are saying about scootering bad vis, as I have done it. However, after such dives, I always rethink about more scooter dives in such a condition because...

If the viz is so bad, can you see where you are going in the first place with a fast scooter ? And can you see anything (i.e. wreck, reef) while scootering in bad viz ?

When the viz is bad, swim is usually better as you could see more.

Unless you are scootering in bad viz with no reference point/surface, then I will

and

, but I tend to scooter closer to the seabed or side of the wreck/reef when the viz is limited. Then a simple flashing of the light beam against this reference surface should get your buddy attention.

Remember like when driving cars in convoy, it is not the responsibility of the person from behind to keep up, but for the person leading to make sure everyone behind is still within contact distance.

The person who is following simply shines his light in the sight zone of the leading person to let him/her know that s/he is still there. As soon as the leading person do not see the light spot, s/he should check.

Anyway, I can't find the exact horn used, but they were all different versions of this type here...

http://www.aquatecusa.com/ah-150.htm

They make duck-like sounds u/w, not really loud that you could hear immediately over the scooter (also depending on the type of scooter as well, Zep - forget it). I am pretty anal about my gear, but never managed to keep mine working for more than a few months when I was using them years ago.

Good luck...

Outlaw · 26th August 2006, 11:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I understand what you are saying about scootering bad vis, as I have done it. However, after such dives, I always rethink about more scooter dives in such a condition because...

If the viz is so bad, can you see where you are going in the first place with a fast scooter ? And can you see anything (i.e. wreck, reef) while scootering in bad viz ?

When the viz is bad, swim is usually better as you could see more.

Unless you are scootering in bad viz with no reference point/surface, then I will

and

, but I tend to scooter closer to the seabed or side of the wreck/reef when the viz is limited. Then a simple flashing of the light beam against this reference surface should get your buddy attention.

Remember like when driving cars in convoy, it is not the responsibility of the person from behind to keep up, but for the person leading to make sure everyone behind is still within contact distance.

The person who is following simply shines his light in the sight zone of the leading person to let him/her know that s/he is still there. As soon as the leading person do not see the light spot, s/he should check.

Anyway, I can't find the exact horn used, but they were all different versions of this type here...

http://www.aquatecusa.com/ah-150.htm

They make duck-like sounds u/w, not really loud that you could hear immediately over the scooter (also depending on the type of scooter as well, Zep - forget it). I am pretty anal about my gear, but never managed to keep mine working for more than a few months when I was using them years ago.

Good luck...

Thanks again deco,

we did a dive on zenobia, then we decided to scooter to the shore...because of the bottom layout, and bad vis, things got tough and one could get easily lost from the other. even lighting does not help in daylight condition. i know what you are talking about, but believe me, this was not the case. we are even thinking about having a full face mask with radio comms inside. any advice on which is best for those?

Cheers anyway. after all , this is what the forum is all about right?

Safe,

Spyros

decoweenie · 26th August 2006, 11:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

...we are even thinking about having a full face mask with radio comms inside. any advice on which is best for those?

Funny that you asked. No advice there since I am in the middle of doing some research myself at the moment.

I bought a nice FFM with an OTS comm set, but haven't tested it since I am not quite sold on the FFM yet. At least not at the moment since it is very hot right now where I live.

And I am trying to get hold of another system that I think might work better for me... (Hint! hint! you know who you are

)

Quote:

...after all , this is what the forum is all about right?

Exactly. Safe diving...

RonMicjan · 26th August 2006, 19:22

I did find it, its in pdf, PM me your email address (i seem to have lost it) and I will send it to ya

Jim Brown · 27th August 2006, 08:57

Greetings:

Your risk - benefit analysis might indicate that physical connection in the form of a buddy line would be useful. These are standard for tactical dives in zero visibility and / or blacked out conditions.

Risk - entanglement. There are conditions where I would have to think twice about using one, particularly around a lot of vertical structure, like a wreck, inside or outside. But in that case one lays a line. I have used a buddy line on a wreck in zero viz, however, and it wasn't so bad. Just have to be prepared for the occasional snag. This is a planned contingency anyway so it's a non-event in that case.

Benefit - you stay together.

The team identifies a leader and a follower. Normally traveling side-by-side, the leader navigates and sets pace, the follower tends the line and watches hazards for leader. If in trail, a floating poly line would tend to rise when slack. Some types of line tend to stay unfouled better than others.

Will it work for scooter? Don't know, haven't tried it. But I have been on a bud line with 4 swim pairs, that's 8 divers, at night in blacked out conditions... mid-water and on bottom. Works if everyone cooperates and keeps things sorted out. Which is exactly what you should be doing anyway, no matter the travel means or velocity... as long as you're proposing to stay together. Doing it with 2 divers is easy.

Why not experiment in good conditions, work out your protocols including recovering from snag? Try 8 or 12mm yellow poly line. Make sure the scooter props are caged. Bring 5m of line under water, try different lengths... 2m, 3m and so forth. Side-by-side and trail formation.

A buddy line might be carried only for contingency purposes, used only if needed.

Regards, Jim Brown

25th August 2006, 06:58	#1 (permalink)
Outlaw In search of Law breaking Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cyprus, Nicosia Posts: 627	Can anyone advise? hello guys, hope you are well. i am trying to find some sort of alarming my buddy while underwater. i was thinking about those underwater siren horns which connect to your inflator hose... Can anyone advice on which is the best brand? or any other info or tip given is welcomed. what happened was that we both use DPVs, when one stops, then is very difficult for the other one to notice and we've had an incident were in very bad visibility conditions things can go very wrong. Thanks in advance. Spyros __________________ CMAS - IANTD - TDI Kamikazi Instrustor Trainer DIRRebreather Team Member ---------------------------- "Once an Outlaw, always an Outlaw"
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25th August 2006, 07:10	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Can anyone advice? If you dive in close proximity with a buddy (as you should, thus the term buddy ) light is the best method for attracting attention. It is fast, instantaneous and goes a long way using the right type of light. If you need something to find your buddy because you don't dive close enough to keep in visual contact, the u/w horns will work but based on my own experience, they don't last long. And the sound isn't loud enough to be heard over a DPV. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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25th August 2006, 08:18	#3 (permalink)
GKAM digital nomad Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Greece Posts: 250	Re: Can anyone advice? Καλημέρα Σπύρο, You can try an u/w rattle. They work well and they last for ever. Basically it is a sealed SS tube with a couple of beads inside that make a lot of noise when you shake them. They are unbreakable HTH /George __________________ Stay #
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26th August 2006, 08:37	#4 (permalink)
Outlaw In search of Law breaking Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cyprus, Nicosia Posts: 627	Re: Can anyone advice? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) If you dive in close proximity with a buddy (as you should, thus the term buddy ) light is the best method for attracting attention. It is fast, instantaneous and goes a long way using the right type of light. If you need something to find your buddy because you don't dive close enough to keep in visual contact, the u/w horns will work but based on my own experience, they don't last long. And the sound isn't loud enough to be heard over a DPV. Thanks for the advice on the buddy term!! well, the thing is that we were both scootering and it was very bad vis conditions and when one stops for something, how can i alert the other one that he has to stop as well. even if he checks every minute then you can still get lost. which horns did you use? is there a specific one? Thanks for letting me know. Spyros __________________ CMAS - IANTD - TDI Kamikazi Instrustor Trainer DIRRebreather Team Member ---------------------------- "Once an Outlaw, always an Outlaw"
(Offline)

26th August 2006, 08:39	#5 (permalink)
Outlaw In search of Law breaking Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cyprus, Nicosia Posts: 627	Re: Can anyone advice? Quote: (Originally Posted by GKAM) Καλημέρα Σπύρο, You can try an u/w rattle. They work well and they last for ever. Basically it is a sealed SS tube with a couple of beads inside that make a lot of noise when you shake them. They are unbreakable HTH /George ευχαριστώ αδελφέ, το θέμα είναι αν θα μπορεί ο άλλος να το ακούσει όταν και οι 2 έχουμε σκούτερ...είναι αρκετά δυνατός ο ήχος του σκούτερ. τα είχα υπόψη μου, απλά σκεφτόμουν αυτές τις σειρήνες. τι λές; Thanks bro, Spyros __________________ CMAS - IANTD - TDI Kamikazi Instrustor Trainer DIRRebreather Team Member ---------------------------- "Once an Outlaw, always an Outlaw"
(Offline)

26th August 2006, 08:51	#6 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Can anyone advice? I understand what you are saying about scootering bad vis, as I have done it. However, after such dives, I always rethink about more scooter dives in such a condition because... If the viz is so bad, can you see where you are going in the first place with a fast scooter ? And can you see anything (i.e. wreck, reef) while scootering in bad viz ? When the viz is bad, swim is usually better as you could see more. Unless you are scootering in bad viz with no reference point/surface, then I will and , but I tend to scooter closer to the seabed or side of the wreck/reef when the viz is limited. Then a simple flashing of the light beam against this reference surface should get your buddy attention. Remember like when driving cars in convoy, it is not the responsibility of the person from behind to keep up, but for the person leading to make sure everyone behind is still within contact distance. The person who is following simply shines his light in the sight zone of the leading person to let him/her know that s/he is still there. As soon as the leading person do not see the light spot, s/he should check. Anyway, I can't find the exact horn used, but they were all different versions of this type here... http://www.aquatecusa.com/ah-150.htm They make duck-like sounds u/w, not really loud that you could hear immediately over the scooter (also depending on the type of scooter as well, Zep - forget it). I am pretty anal about my gear, but never managed to keep mine working for more than a few months when I was using them years ago. Good luck... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

26th August 2006, 11:26	#7 (permalink)
Outlaw In search of Law breaking Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cyprus, Nicosia Posts: 627	Re: Can anyone advice? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I understand what you are saying about scootering bad vis, as I have done it. However, after such dives, I always rethink about more scooter dives in such a condition because... If the viz is so bad, can you see where you are going in the first place with a fast scooter ? And can you see anything (i.e. wreck, reef) while scootering in bad viz ? When the viz is bad, swim is usually better as you could see more. Unless you are scootering in bad viz with no reference point/surface, then I will and , but I tend to scooter closer to the seabed or side of the wreck/reef when the viz is limited. Then a simple flashing of the light beam against this reference surface should get your buddy attention. Remember like when driving cars in convoy, it is not the responsibility of the person from behind to keep up, but for the person leading to make sure everyone behind is still within contact distance. The person who is following simply shines his light in the sight zone of the leading person to let him/her know that s/he is still there. As soon as the leading person do not see the light spot, s/he should check. Anyway, I can't find the exact horn used, but they were all different versions of this type here... http://www.aquatecusa.com/ah-150.htm They make duck-like sounds u/w, not really loud that you could hear immediately over the scooter (also depending on the type of scooter as well, Zep - forget it). I am pretty anal about my gear, but never managed to keep mine working for more than a few months when I was using them years ago. Good luck... Thanks again deco, we did a dive on zenobia, then we decided to scooter to the shore...because of the bottom layout, and bad vis, things got tough and one could get easily lost from the other. even lighting does not help in daylight condition. i know what you are talking about, but believe me, this was not the case. we are even thinking about having a full face mask with radio comms inside. any advice on which is best for those? Cheers anyway. after all , this is what the forum is all about right? Safe, Spyros __________________ CMAS - IANTD - TDI Kamikazi Instrustor Trainer DIRRebreather Team Member ---------------------------- "Once an Outlaw, always an Outlaw"
(Offline)

26th August 2006, 11:37	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Can anyone advice? Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw) ...we are even thinking about having a full face mask with radio comms inside. any advice on which is best for those? Funny that you asked. No advice there since I am in the middle of doing some research myself at the moment. I bought a nice FFM with an OTS comm set, but haven't tested it since I am not quite sold on the FFM yet. At least not at the moment since it is very hot right now where I live. And I am trying to get hold of another system that I think might work better for me... (Hint! hint! you know who you are ) Quote: ...after all , this is what the forum is all about right? Exactly. Safe diving... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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26th August 2006, 19:22	#9 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Can anyone advice? I did find it, its in pdf, PM me your email address (i seem to have lost it) and I will send it to ya __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
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27th August 2006, 08:57	#10 (permalink)
Jim Brown New Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Stuttgart, GE Posts: 32	Re: Can anyone advice? Greetings: Your risk - benefit analysis might indicate that physical connection in the form of a buddy line would be useful. These are standard for tactical dives in zero visibility and / or blacked out conditions. Risk - entanglement. There are conditions where I would have to think twice about using one, particularly around a lot of vertical structure, like a wreck, inside or outside. But in that case one lays a line. I have used a buddy line on a wreck in zero viz, however, and it wasn't so bad. Just have to be prepared for the occasional snag. This is a planned contingency anyway so it's a non-event in that case. Benefit - you stay together. The team identifies a leader and a follower. Normally traveling side-by-side, the leader navigates and sets pace, the follower tends the line and watches hazards for leader. If in trail, a floating poly line would tend to rise when slack. Some types of line tend to stay unfouled better than others. Will it work for scooter? Don't know, haven't tried it. But I have been on a bud line with 4 swim pairs, that's 8 divers, at night in blacked out conditions... mid-water and on bottom. Works if everyone cooperates and keeps things sorted out. Which is exactly what you should be doing anyway, no matter the travel means or velocity... as long as you're proposing to stay together. Doing it with 2 divers is easy. Why not experiment in good conditions, work out your protocols including recovering from snag? Try 8 or 12mm yellow poly line. Make sure the scooter props are caged. Bring 5m of line under water, try different lengths... 2m, 3m and so forth. Side-by-side and trail formation. A buddy line might be carried only for contingency purposes, used only if needed. Regards, Jim Brown Last edited by Jim Brown : 27th August 2006 at 09:00.
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