100m dive bailout

Pierre Farrugia · 25th August 2006, 14:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by fubari)

So the Casio's total runtime = 98 minutes.
Hmmm, does your Casio's 10min bottom time
include descent time?

When I run the profile in vplanner, I'm getting 67min
runtimes for 10min total (6 min to descend, 4 min @ depth).

Or 113min for 16min total (e.g. 6 min to descend,
then 10 min at depth).

Is this the sort of thing you had in mind?
John G.

(edit: I thought I'd tweak this a little and line the profiles up,
casio on the right, depths as close as I can get).

V-Planner 3.73
DIVE PLAN Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0m
Decompression model: VPM - B Conservatism = + 3

Code:

Diluent 58% HE / 9% O2
setpoint 0.7 descent, switch to 1.3 @ bottom.
 
 
 vplanner 10 min bt      |  vplanner 16min bt      |  casio 10min bt
            run          |            run          |              run
depth time time  rate    |depth time  time rate    | depth time   time
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 60m        (4) 15m/min  | 60m         (4) 15m/min |   descent
100m        (6) 18m/min  |100m         (6) 18m/min | 100m  10:00  (10)
100m  3:47 (10)          |100m  9:47  (16)         |        -       -
 72m     -   -           | 70m        (19) -9m/min |        -       -
 72m     -   -           | 72m  0:53  (20)         |        -       -
 69m     -   -           | 69m  1:00  (21)         |        -       -
 66m     -   -           | 66m  1:00  (22)         |   65m  1:00  (15)
 63m     -   -           | 63m  1:00  (23)         |        -       -
 60m       (14) -9m/min  |         -    -          |        -       -
 60m  0:33 (15)          | 60m  1:00  (24)         |        -       -
 57m  1:00 (16)          | 57m  1:00  (25)         |        -       -
 54m  1:00 (17)          | 54m  1:00  (26)         |        -       -
 51m  1:00 (18)          | 51m  1:00  (27)         |        -       -
 48m  1:00 (19)          | 48m  1:00  (28)         |   47m  1:00  (17)
 45m  1:00 (20)          | 45m  1:00  (29)         |        -       -
 42m  1:00 (21)          | 42m  1:00  (30)         |        -       -
 39m  1:00 (22)          | 39m  2:00  (32)         |   38m  1:00  (19)
 36m  1:00 (23)          | 36m  2:00  (34)         |        -       -
 33m  1:00 (24)          | 33m  2:00  (36)         |        -       -
 30m  1:00 (25)          | 30m  2:00  (38)         |   30m  1:00  (21)
 27m  1:00 (26)          | 27m  3:00  (41)         |   27m  1:00  (22)
 24m  2:00 (28)          | 24m  3:00  (44)         |   24m  1:00  (24)
 21m  3:00 (31)          | 21m  4:00  (48)         |   21m  2:00  (26)
 18m  2:00 (33)          | 18m  5:00  (53)         |   18m  4:00  (30)
 15m  4:00 (37)          | 15m  6:00  (59)         |   15m  5:00  (36)
 12m  4:00 (41)          | 12m  7:00  (66)         |   12m  7:00  (43)
  9m  5:00 (46)          |  9m 10:00  (76)         |    9m  9:00  (52)
  6m 21:00 (67)          |  6m 37:00 (113)         |    6m 45:00  (98)
Surface    (67) -9m/min  |Surface    (113) -9m/min |
Off gassing starts 67.6m | Off gassing starts 78.1m|
OTU s=94   CNS=35.5%     | OTU s=162   CNS=61.3%   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fubari thanks for your interest. About the deco prog. you misunderstood a joke of mine, the Casio I was refeering to a simple electronic calculator but I used Proplanner as used in Vr3 for calculations. There is a lot of time difference from yours to mine 20min+

Pierre Farrugia · 25th August 2006, 14:56

Please try to deviate from topic as the above discussion needs a thread of it's own as it is quit interesting!

Pierre Farrugia · 25th August 2006, 14:58

Hello all,

Tonight I will run some profiles with bailout , using 10/70, 18/35 and a strong nitrox and see what it comes out! About the tins, yes they have to get bigger!

Mark Chase · 25th August 2006, 15:30

For sake of discussion.

Two 7ltr steels blown to 240bar would get me out of the water from 100m after 10mins on the botom with a OMG factor of 7mins. So max 17mins on the bottom.

however you might not like the way I would do it.

Bail to 3ltr inboard 10/70 and get up as far as I could but not less than 90m.

Then switch to 7ltr of 18/45 @ 90m or less if possable on a PP02 of 1.8 or less imediatly ascend to first deep stop running 10/100GF profile at 33m. Gas switch at 21m to 50%

Gas required 230bar of 18/45 232 bar of 50% Total Deco 99mins

10mins at 100

Gas required 205 bar of 18/45 133 bar of 50%

Asuming 150bar of 10/70 left in 3ltr and an SAC of 20 then Id need 220lpm to get up so theoreticly I could get from 100 to 80m at 10m/min before I ran out of dill. Suit inflation is off board so id run boyancy on remaining gas in wing and suit to trim out.

My deco sac is less than 10 but I have planned on 10.

However all this is rubbish because below 60m I switch to an ali 80 of 50% @ 235bar and a steel 10 of 18/45 blown to 250bar

You can never have too much gas

ATB

Mark Chase

Pierre Farrugia · 27th August 2006, 08:26

Hello,

Yesterday did a bailout dive to check my RMV after not having dived on OC for ages now!

Using my 5L bailout tank with 200bar, I did:

2min @ 15m
3min @ 12m
5min @ 9m
30min @ 6m

and ended dive with 40bar still in tank. I calculated RMV at 12lmp and for above dive I calculate it at 18rmv . Quite pleased that my RMV is still good and I even did some mask remevals too

J. V. · 27th August 2006, 08:41

Don't forget than in real emergency situation, SAC is not two or three L/min more than normal rate, but x2, x3 or more...

PCDiver · 27th August 2006, 09:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by J. V.)

Don't forget than in real emergency situation, SAC is not two or three L/min more than normal rate, but x2, x3 or more...

Absolutely correct. And in case of CO2 related problems, expect an initial SAC of 40 to 80 l/min. If it happens, you need to get your breathing rate under control ASAP. If you can't, you gonna suck any size bottle empty in no time. Remember, it's all in the mind.

Pierre Farrugia · 27th August 2006, 09:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver)

Absolutely correct. And in case of CO2 related problems, expect an initial SAC of 40 to 80 l/min. If it happens, you need to get your breathing rate under control ASAP. If you can't, you gonna suck any size bottle empty in no time. Remember, it's all in the mind.

Cannot agree more with you. Many opt. for team bailout and what I was considering was, that if I bailout in normal problem with normal breathing rate I will have enough gas to do all deco safely, I planned everything at 18lpm, sis not consider the 3L onboard (extra). Then when problems such as CO2 with high RMV then we can share gas. And there are other options such as drop tanks or support! Also if loop floods then Co2 should be under control, and breathing will resume after a couple of breaths just some brown stuff in pants

. In case of Co2 , you still can use breather in SCR at 6m.

An other thing that I tought about is, if you have a Co2 problem, only one gas should suffer from high RMV, as I don't think you will do all your deco puffing heavily? Eg. if this happens at depth, you will breath heavily the first couple of minutes but then when you change to Travel or deco gas, your RMV should have settled down? Right? Anyone can speak from experience?

decoweenie · 27th August 2006, 11:00

Pierre,

It is not the deco gas that you should be worry about, it is the bottom mix.

I have personally seen someone sucked a full 7L stage dry at 70'ish meter in just a minute huffing-and-puffing away. Good thing that he was only panicked because his right valve rolled shut when going down the achor line. So we were able to turn his gas back on the twinset, or he would have to start breathing his 50% pretty soon...

Once on deco, you will have time to relax, slow the breathing down, get shallower if needed (i.e. change deco profile), get drop-off tank, etc.

Also, DO NOT count on be able to get off the loop after a "couple of breaths" of OC either...

Pierre Farrugia · 27th August 2006, 11:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Pierre,

It is not the deco gas that you should be worry about, it is the bottom mix.

I have personally seen someone sucked a full 7L stage dry at 70'ish meter in just a minute huffing-and-puffing away. Good thing that he was only panicked because his right valve rolled shut when going down the achor line. So we were able to turn his gas back on the twinset, or he would have to start breathing his 50% pretty soon...

Once on deco, you will have time to relax, slow the breathing down, get shallower if needed (i.e. change deco profile), get drop-off tank, etc.

Also, DO NOT count on be able to get off the loop after a "couple of breaths" of OC either...

Thanks, even I am not happy with a 7liter deep bailout, either get a bigger bottle or just use an other bailout like 18/35 which I already use, then then will end up with too many cylinders!

In practise, what are you doing out there for these kind of dives? As many of you do these kind of dives, and many times with proper bottom times as well

25th August 2006, 14:56	#52 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: 100m dive bailout Please try to deviate from topic as the above discussion needs a thread of it's own as it is quit interesting! __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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25th August 2006, 14:58	#53 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: 100m dive bailout Hello all, Tonight I will run some profiles with bailout , using 10/70, 18/35 and a strong nitrox and see what it comes out! About the tins, yes they have to get bigger! __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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25th August 2006, 15:30	#54 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,562	Re: 100m dive bailout For sake of discussion. Two 7ltr steels blown to 240bar would get me out of the water from 100m after 10mins on the botom with a OMG factor of 7mins. So max 17mins on the bottom. however you might not like the way I would do it. Bail to 3ltr inboard 10/70 and get up as far as I could but not less than 90m. Then switch to 7ltr of 18/45 @ 90m or less if possable on a PP02 of 1.8 or less imediatly ascend to first deep stop running 10/100GF profile at 33m. Gas switch at 21m to 50% Gas required 230bar of 18/45 232 bar of 50% Total Deco 99mins 10mins at 100 Gas required 205 bar of 18/45 133 bar of 50% Asuming 150bar of 10/70 left in 3ltr and an SAC of 20 then Id need 220lpm to get up so theoreticly I could get from 100 to 80m at 10m/min before I ran out of dill. Suit inflation is off board so id run boyancy on remaining gas in wing and suit to trim out. My deco sac is less than 10 but I have planned on 10. However all this is rubbish because below 60m I switch to an ali 80 of 50% @ 235bar and a steel 10 of 18/45 blown to 250bar You can never have too much gas ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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27th August 2006, 08:41	#56 (permalink)
J. V. Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet rEvo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lot & Savoie Posts: 235	Re: 100m dive bailout Don't forget than in real emergency situation, SAC is not two or three L/min more than normal rate, but x2, x3 or more... __________________ -------------------- Jacques NPSFQQA-EDS IT # 007 (remué non agité)
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27th August 2006, 09:09	#57 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 938	Re: 100m dive bailout Quote: (Originally Posted by J. V.) Don't forget than in real emergency situation, SAC is not two or three L/min more than normal rate, but x2, x3 or more... Absolutely correct. And in case of CO2 related problems, expect an initial SAC of 40 to 80 l/min. If it happens, you need to get your breathing rate under control ASAP. If you can't, you gonna suck any size bottle empty in no time. Remember, it's all in the mind.
(Online)

27th August 2006, 09:52	#58 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: 100m dive bailout Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver) Absolutely correct. And in case of CO2 related problems, expect an initial SAC of 40 to 80 l/min. If it happens, you need to get your breathing rate under control ASAP. If you can't, you gonna suck any size bottle empty in no time. Remember, it's all in the mind. Cannot agree more with you. Many opt. for team bailout and what I was considering was, that if I bailout in normal problem with normal breathing rate I will have enough gas to do all deco safely, I planned everything at 18lpm, sis not consider the 3L onboard (extra). Then when problems such as CO2 with high RMV then we can share gas. And there are other options such as drop tanks or support! Also if loop floods then Co2 should be under control, and breathing will resume after a couple of breaths just some brown stuff in pants . In case of Co2 , you still can use breather in SCR at 6m. An other thing that I tought about is, if you have a Co2 problem, only one gas should suffer from high RMV, as I don't think you will do all your deco puffing heavily? Eg. if this happens at depth, you will breath heavily the first couple of minutes but then when you change to Travel or deco gas, your RMV should have settled down? Right? Anyone can speak from experience? __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
(Offline)

27th August 2006, 11:00	#59 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: 100m dive bailout Pierre, It is not the deco gas that you should be worry about, it is the bottom mix. I have personally seen someone sucked a full 7L stage dry at 70'ish meter in just a minute huffing-and-puffing away. Good thing that he was only panicked because his right valve rolled shut when going down the achor line. So we were able to turn his gas back on the twinset, or he would have to start breathing his 50% pretty soon... Once on deco, you will have time to relax, slow the breathing down, get shallower if needed (i.e. change deco profile), get drop-off tank, etc. Also, DO NOT count on be able to get off the loop after a "couple of breaths" of OC either... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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27th August 2006, 11:27	#60 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: 100m dive bailout Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Pierre, It is not the deco gas that you should be worry about, it is the bottom mix. I have personally seen someone sucked a full 7L stage dry at 70'ish meter in just a minute huffing-and-puffing away. Good thing that he was only panicked because his right valve rolled shut when going down the achor line. So we were able to turn his gas back on the twinset, or he would have to start breathing his 50% pretty soon... Once on deco, you will have time to relax, slow the breathing down, get shallower if needed (i.e. change deco profile), get drop-off tank, etc. Also, DO NOT count on be able to get off the loop after a "couple of breaths" of OC either... Thanks, even I am not happy with a 7liter deep bailout, either get a bigger bottle or just use an other bailout like 18/35 which I already use, then then will end up with too many cylinders! In practise, what are you doing out there for these kind of dives? As many of you do these kind of dives, and many times with proper bottom times as well __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
(Offline)

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