Helium & tiredness ?

colinicky · 12th August 2006, 08:05

Do people find that after diving with trimix as dil that they are more tired than if they had done the same dive on air dil ? really talking dives around the 40 - 45 m range .
TIA

Mark Chase · 12th August 2006, 11:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by colinicky)

Do people find that after diving with trimix as dil that they are more tired than if they had done the same dive on air dil ? really talking dives around the 40 - 45 m range .
TIA

I did untill I started running pure 02 for the last 15-20mins of deco. For me the side efffects of running He all the way out were prety drastic.

ATB

Mark Chase

colinicky · 12th August 2006, 11:22

Thanks Mark
Did a dive yesterday that I got seriously narked on oc when I did it so used 21/25 as dil ,43metres max, 40 min bottom time, 16 mins tts + extra 5 saftey but only ran 1.3 set point. By the time I got the 20miles home I was shattered ,I hours kip before dinner then 11 hour solid sleep ,normally I only have 6-7 hours .Will give it a go on pure O2 next time to see .
TIA

dan@scuba-training.net · 12th August 2006, 13:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I did untill I started running pure 02 for the last 15-20mins of deco. For me the side efffects of running He all the way out were prety drastic.

10 - 20 minutes on pure O2 atones for a number of sins.

Mixaddict · 12th August 2006, 13:51

Hi Colin,

I don't find any difference in fatigue of my "tiredness" factor using HE. For me personally, I find it has to do more with other factors such as depth, conditions including surface conditions and depth conditions, amount of sun, food intake, stress level (this is a big one), as well as all sorts of other little things.

Also, remember that one of the symptoms of subclinical DCS is severe fatigue. I am not saying that is the case for you, but a lot of people believe that many deep divers exhibit sub-clinical DCS symptoms without ever realizing it.

My experience with fatigue after diving has been very sporadic. I can do the same dive, at the same location, with similar conditions on two different days and feel quite different after both dives. Who knows? Why do I feel rested after one night's sleep and still tired after another night's sleep? I just think there are a lot of other physiological factors at work.

If you get it all figured out, let me know!

Regards,
Randy Thornton (MixAddict)

Mark Chase · 12th August 2006, 16:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mixaddict)

Hi Colin,

I don't find any difference in fatigue of my "tiredness" factor using HE. For me personally, I find it has to do more with other factors such as depth, conditions including surface conditions and depth conditions, amount of sun, food intake, stress level (this is a big one), as well as all sorts of other little things.

Also, remember that one of the symptoms of subclinical DCS is severe fatigue. I am not saying that is the case for you, but a lot of people believe that many deep divers exhibit sub-clinical DCS symptoms without ever realizing it.

My experience with fatigue after diving has been very sporadic. I can do the same dive, at the same location, with similar conditions on two different days and feel quite different after both dives. Who knows? Why do I feel rested after one night's sleep and still tired after another night's sleep? I just think there are a lot of other physiological factors at work.

If you get it all figured out, let me know!

Regards,
Randy Thornton (MixAddict)

You have to remember that both Colin and I have previous experiance of diving Trimix on OC.

Personaly having dived it hundreds of times prior to doing it on CCR and having the tiredness issue occur regularly on CCR, I put two and two together and decided to try pure 02 for 15-20mins.

No further problems occured.

Two possable reasions.

Running the VR3 0 safety with my noraml VPM stile padded ascents on OC works when gas switching to 32 and 80% from back gas and it dosent on a CCR.

Or

Helium in the mix all the way out screws me up.

All I know is I was geting screwed up on little 30 -45min deco hangs. Now I am doing 60 to 120min deco hangs with pure 02 on the end and I am fine.

ATB

Mark Chase

***EBT*** · 12th August 2006, 16:54

or constant PO2 is having a negative effect on your deco.......

Mark Chase · 12th August 2006, 17:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

or constant PO2 is having a negative effect on your deco.......

Fair point, I have to say why? but it's definitly a new dynamic to the dive so a possabuility.

On OC I am using 1.6PP02 on the 40m and 10m stops so maby the high PP02 has an effect onthe deco that a constent PP02 of 1.2-3 dosent acheive.

Anyway i have solved that problem now with my Hammer Head. Constent PP02's are a thing of the past

ATB

Mark Chase

heyydude · 12th August 2006, 17:55

It's not the Trimix. It's Nitrogen and Depth.

Switch to Heliox and see how you feel.

After deep trimix dives, John and Rod would take naps, while I would run around the boat chattering like a monkey for an hour. (I was on 14/86 Heliox).

'Course, I used to smoke 2 packs a day too, so running around was nothing unusual...

Kevin.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 13th August 2006, 05:06

Pretty timely post. I did my first dive with Helium in my CCR today, and I feel great!

First of all, I was only using 21/15 because my dive was only to 125 feet for 30 minutes (bottom time, with about 55 minutes total run time), followed by a 30 minute interval and then another dive to 70 feet for 30 minutes (bottom time). However, I felt at least 10 times better than I have been feeling using air for diluent during my newest of

phase of CCR diving (now that I am a more experienced

).

Last night, I only got less than six hours of sleep (and I normally need about 8 or 9). However, after today's dive in the intense heat here in South Florida, I cleaned my gear at the boat dock, went to lunch with a friend, hung out on Lincoln Road (a famous area of Miami Beach), came home, put my gear away, disinfected the loop, did some house chores, and I am up and still going after 1:00 AM. If I were on air diluent, I would have eaten lunch, come home without hanging out, sat in my chair, and taken a nap for a couple of hours (Yes, I always do plenty of deco).

I did flush the loop at 20 feet about three or four times. So, I can't say how I would have felt if I had just bumped up the PPO2 without flushing.

Helium is your friend.

12th August 2006, 08:05	#1 (permalink)
colinicky Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: uk Posts: 661	Helium & tiredness ? Do people find that after diving with trimix as dil that they are more tired than if they had done the same dive on air dil ? really talking dives around the 40 - 45 m range . TIA __________________ Colin I trust my rebreather completely , I just don't trust the user onwards & downwards
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12th August 2006, 11:16	#2 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Quote: (Originally Posted by colinicky) Do people find that after diving with trimix as dil that they are more tired than if they had done the same dive on air dil ? really talking dives around the 40 - 45 m range . TIA I did untill I started running pure 02 for the last 15-20mins of deco. For me the side efffects of running He all the way out were prety drastic. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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12th August 2006, 11:22	#3 (permalink)
colinicky Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: uk Posts: 661	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Thanks Mark Did a dive yesterday that I got seriously narked on oc when I did it so used 21/25 as dil ,43metres max, 40 min bottom time, 16 mins tts + extra 5 saftey but only ran 1.3 set point. By the time I got the 20miles home I was shattered ,I hours kip before dinner then 11 hour solid sleep ,normally I only have 6-7 hours .Will give it a go on pure O2 next time to see . TIA __________________ Colin I trust my rebreather completely , I just don't trust the user onwards & downwards
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12th August 2006, 13:46	#4 (permalink)
dan@scuba-training.net New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Megalodon Sport Kiss Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 97	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I did untill I started running pure 02 for the last 15-20mins of deco. For me the side efffects of running He all the way out were prety drastic. 10 - 20 minutes on pure O2 atones for a number of sins.
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12th August 2006, 13:51	#5 (permalink)
Mixaddict Always Learning! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Draper, Utah USA Posts: 426	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Hi Colin, I don't find any difference in fatigue of my "tiredness" factor using HE. For me personally, I find it has to do more with other factors such as depth, conditions including surface conditions and depth conditions, amount of sun, food intake, stress level (this is a big one), as well as all sorts of other little things. Also, remember that one of the symptoms of subclinical DCS is severe fatigue. I am not saying that is the case for you, but a lot of people believe that many deep divers exhibit sub-clinical DCS symptoms without ever realizing it. My experience with fatigue after diving has been very sporadic. I can do the same dive, at the same location, with similar conditions on two different days and feel quite different after both dives. Who knows? Why do I feel rested after one night's sleep and still tired after another night's sleep? I just think there are a lot of other physiological factors at work. If you get it all figured out, let me know! Regards, Randy Thornton (MixAddict)
(Online)

12th August 2006, 16:45	#6 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mixaddict) Hi Colin, I don't find any difference in fatigue of my "tiredness" factor using HE. For me personally, I find it has to do more with other factors such as depth, conditions including surface conditions and depth conditions, amount of sun, food intake, stress level (this is a big one), as well as all sorts of other little things. Also, remember that one of the symptoms of subclinical DCS is severe fatigue. I am not saying that is the case for you, but a lot of people believe that many deep divers exhibit sub-clinical DCS symptoms without ever realizing it. My experience with fatigue after diving has been very sporadic. I can do the same dive, at the same location, with similar conditions on two different days and feel quite different after both dives. Who knows? Why do I feel rested after one night's sleep and still tired after another night's sleep? I just think there are a lot of other physiological factors at work. If you get it all figured out, let me know! Regards, Randy Thornton (MixAddict) You have to remember that both Colin and I have previous experiance of diving Trimix on OC. Personaly having dived it hundreds of times prior to doing it on CCR and having the tiredness issue occur regularly on CCR, I put two and two together and decided to try pure 02 for 15-20mins. No further problems occured. Two possable reasions. Running the VR3 0 safety with my noraml VPM stile padded ascents on OC works when gas switching to 32 and 80% from back gas and it dosent on a CCR. Or Helium in the mix all the way out screws me up. All I know is I was geting screwed up on little 30 -45min deco hangs. Now I am doing 60 to 120min deco hangs with pure 02 on the end and I am fine. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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12th August 2006, 16:54	#7 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,855	Re: Helium & tiredness ? or constant PO2 is having a negative effect on your deco....... __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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12th August 2006, 17:21	#8 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) or constant PO2 is having a negative effect on your deco....... Fair point, I have to say why? but it's definitly a new dynamic to the dive so a possabuility. On OC I am using 1.6PP02 on the 40m and 10m stops so maby the high PP02 has an effect onthe deco that a constent PP02 of 1.2-3 dosent acheive. Anyway i have solved that problem now with my Hammer Head. Constent PP02's are a thing of the past ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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12th August 2006, 17:55	#9 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 331	Re: Helium & tiredness ? It's not the Trimix. It's Nitrogen and Depth. Switch to Heliox and see how you feel. After deep trimix dives, John and Rod would take naps, while I would run around the boat chattering like a monkey for an hour. (I was on 14/86 Heliox). 'Course, I used to smoke 2 packs a day too, so running around was nothing unusual... Kevin.
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13th August 2006, 05:06	#10 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,939	Re: Helium & tiredness ? Pretty timely post. I did my first dive with Helium in my CCR today, and I feel great! First of all, I was only using 21/15 because my dive was only to 125 feet for 30 minutes (bottom time, with about 55 minutes total run time), followed by a 30 minute interval and then another dive to 70 feet for 30 minutes (bottom time). However, I felt at least 10 times better than I have been feeling using air for diluent during my newest of phase of CCR diving (now that I am a more experienced ). Last night, I only got less than six hours of sleep (and I normally need about 8 or 9). However, after today's dive in the intense heat here in South Florida, I cleaned my gear at the boat dock, went to lunch with a friend, hung out on Lincoln Road (a famous area of Miami Beach), came home, put my gear away, disinfected the loop, did some house chores, and I am up and still going after 1:00 AM. If I were on air diluent, I would have eaten lunch, come home without hanging out, sat in my chair, and taken a nap for a couple of hours (Yes, I always do plenty of deco). I did flush the loop at 20 feet about three or four times. So, I can't say how I would have felt if I had just bumped up the PPO2 without flushing. Helium is your friend. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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