bizarre breathing problem

PCDiver · 7th August 2006, 22:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

I Have had a similar snoring feeling when I inadvertantly nose-breathe (there are a couple of threads about nose breathing). It seems that on a CCR I sometimes have difficulty isolating my oral airway from my nasal airway, this makes my mask "bellows" in and out with respiration and sometimes have the snoring/snorting feeling at the same time. If this is the cause I suspect tightening the mask helps by making the gas space behind the mask less easy to change in volume and so less gas moves in and out through the nose so less "snoring".
The best way of stopping it I have found is to do a deliberate "blow" into the loop - like blowing up a balloon, if that doesn't do it I partially obstruct the mouthpiece with my tongue to give a resistance to blow against. This helps me to occlude my nasal airway with my soft palate.

Hope that helps,
Neil

We could be onto something here. I tightened my mask and that seemed to have helped a little. This could be linked to a connection between the nasal and the oral airway. When I eqalise, I don't have to do anything. It almost happens automatically, unless I'm congested. Could this be related?

Peter

E-man · 7th August 2006, 23:50

Hmmm, glad you brought this up, as I too have this problem and it is definatly related to involuntary nose breathing, which for me goes from a slight annoyance and steadily, but slowly escalates to very high level of stress as I start to imagine the CO2 buildup from nose breathing and rebreathing my mask air. Holding my nose stops all symptoms until I can control myself and be able to NOT nose breathe then I let go of my nose and am fine at least for a while longer. When this most recently happened I also noticed that I was head down in a 45° forward pitch with my head in a hole.

dive2dive2000 · 8th August 2006, 03:23

I have invoulontary nose breathing, It comes on if I get stressed or cold. I stop it it by inhaling thru my nose and putting a slight neg pressure on my mask. My first 15- 20 hrs in cold water were horrible. Would go thru dil like I was on OC. Around 50hrs now, it is hardly a concern. I can catch it as soon as it occurs and correct it on first attempt.

Sutty · 8th August 2006, 09:15

I suspect this problem happens more frequently on CCR than O/C because of pressure differentials between mouthpiece gas pressure and ambient pressure. Because of the position of the counterlungs there is commonly either a slight -ve pressure at the mouthpiece. This seems to fool the soft palate into not obstructing the nasal airway as easily. This would also explain why the phenomenon is affected by attitude in the water. You would also expect a difference between front-mounted, OTS or BMCLs. Perhaps for my Kiss I could stop it by rolling on my back thereby giving a +ve pressure to "blow" against, I'll try it next time it happens!
I'm not really worried about the phenomenon causing CO2 build-up, for me gas seems to move in/out of my nasal airway/mask at the beginning of exhalation (though I'll check this for sure next time it happens), so the gas moving into the mask is "dead-space" gas from the trachea which has not taken part in gas exchange in the alveoli and so shouldn't have significant amounts of CO2 in it.
I don't have proof of all this - just educated observation and physiology, so don't take it as gospel!

Neil

onetime · 8th August 2006, 13:17

Great thread. I've had a similar issue at times. Hasn't happened too often but when it did it was quite annoying. Usually the situation has resolved itself for me after a handful of breaths but next time it happens this thread has given me some ideas on how to potentially speed up the process. Thanks.

--Paul

PCDiver · 8th August 2006, 14:35

It seems I wasn't the only one. Strange nobody else mentioned this before. Anyone out there with a medical background who can shed some more light on this phenomena?

Dave R · 8th August 2006, 14:43

I have the same problem on almost every dive. I have only about 30 hours on ccr and still getting used to not breathing out through my nose. I use a purge mask and am used to "venting" out any water that accumilates. It usally happens on the end of my dives when I am a little tired. I have always worn my mask a little on the loose side so I will see if wearing it tighter helps. It hasn't really been a problem so far but it sure is annoying. I never really new how to describe this problem until I read your thread. Thanks to everyone for the helpful hints.

Cheers,

Dave

PCDiver · 8th August 2006, 15:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave R)

I have the same problem on almost every dive. I have only about 30 hours on ccr and still getting used to not breathing out through my nose. I use a purge mask and am used to "venting" out any water that accumilates. It usally happens on the end of my dives when I am a little tired. I have always worn my mask a little on the loose side so I will see if wearing it tighter helps. It hasn't really been a problem so far but it sure is annoying. I never really new how to describe this problem until I read your thread. Thanks to everyone for the helpful hints.

Cheers,

Dave

It wasn't a problem for me either, just annoying, until it happened on this deeper dive. So better to get it under control before doing the deep stuff. I

Ben Field · 8th August 2006, 16:32

I'm glad someone bought this up and its not just me.... only happens rarely, I think when the loop is abit full, I get a strange "glugging" sensation in the rear of my mouth at the top (pallet?) like snoring I guess... Never on OC, only CCR.

I put it down to a pressure differential between mouth and nose/mask area, I found that blowing out my nose usually solved it (I very rarely have a problem with nose breathing) perhaps I'm slowly taking gas from the mask creating abit of a vaccum?

Interesting if bizarre thread!

BEN

**jmurba** · 8th August 2006, 17:05

a new reason to pay attention when using hypoxic diluant gases !!!

7th August 2006, 22:12	#21 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 969	Re: bizarre breathing problem Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) I Have had a similar snoring feeling when I inadvertantly nose-breathe (there are a couple of threads about nose breathing). It seems that on a CCR I sometimes have difficulty isolating my oral airway from my nasal airway, this makes my mask "bellows" in and out with respiration and sometimes have the snoring/snorting feeling at the same time. If this is the cause I suspect tightening the mask helps by making the gas space behind the mask less easy to change in volume and so less gas moves in and out through the nose so less "snoring". The best way of stopping it I have found is to do a deliberate "blow" into the loop - like blowing up a balloon, if that doesn't do it I partially obstruct the mouthpiece with my tongue to give a resistance to blow against. This helps me to occlude my nasal airway with my soft palate. Hope that helps, Neil We could be onto something here. I tightened my mask and that seemed to have helped a little. This could be linked to a connection between the nasal and the oral airway. When I eqalise, I don't have to do anything. It almost happens automatically, unless I'm congested. Could this be related? Peter
(Online)

7th August 2006, 23:50	#22 (permalink)
E-man On the loop! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Titan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Eastern Coast ;) Posts: 212	Re: bizarre breathing problem Hmmm, glad you brought this up, as I too have this problem and it is definatly related to involuntary nose breathing, which for me goes from a slight annoyance and steadily, but slowly escalates to very high level of stress as I start to imagine the CO2 buildup from nose breathing and rebreathing my mask air. Holding my nose stops all symptoms until I can control myself and be able to NOT nose breathe then I let go of my nose and am fine at least for a while longer. When this most recently happened I also noticed that I was head down in a 45° forward pitch with my head in a hole.
(Offline)

8th August 2006, 03:23	#23 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: bizarre breathing problem I have invoulontary nose breathing, It comes on if I get stressed or cold. I stop it it by inhaling thru my nose and putting a slight neg pressure on my mask. My first 15- 20 hrs in cold water were horrible. Would go thru dil like I was on OC. Around 50hrs now, it is hardly a concern. I can catch it as soon as it occurs and correct it on first attempt. __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
(Offline)

8th August 2006, 09:15	#24 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 800	Re: bizarre breathing problem I suspect this problem happens more frequently on CCR than O/C because of pressure differentials between mouthpiece gas pressure and ambient pressure. Because of the position of the counterlungs there is commonly either a slight -ve pressure at the mouthpiece. This seems to fool the soft palate into not obstructing the nasal airway as easily. This would also explain why the phenomenon is affected by attitude in the water. You would also expect a difference between front-mounted, OTS or BMCLs. Perhaps for my Kiss I could stop it by rolling on my back thereby giving a +ve pressure to "blow" against, I'll try it next time it happens! I'm not really worried about the phenomenon causing CO2 build-up, for me gas seems to move in/out of my nasal airway/mask at the beginning of exhalation (though I'll check this for sure next time it happens), so the gas moving into the mask is "dead-space" gas from the trachea which has not taken part in gas exchange in the alveoli and so shouldn't have significant amounts of CO2 in it. I don't have proof of all this - just educated observation and physiology, so don't take it as gospel! Neil __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
(Offline)

8th August 2006, 13:17	#25 (permalink)
onetime Classic KISSer #138 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: US, NJ Posts: 673	Re: bizarre breathing problem Great thread. I've had a similar issue at times. Hasn't happened too often but when it did it was quite annoying. Usually the situation has resolved itself for me after a handful of breaths but next time it happens this thread has given me some ideas on how to potentially speed up the process. Thanks. --Paul
(Offline)

8th August 2006, 14:35	#26 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 969	Re: bizarre breathing problem It seems I wasn't the only one. Strange nobody else mentioned this before. Anyone out there with a medical background who can shed some more light on this phenomena?
(Online)

8th August 2006, 14:43	#27 (permalink)
Dave R New Member Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Southern Ca. Posts: 15	Re: bizarre breathing problem I have the same problem on almost every dive. I have only about 30 hours on ccr and still getting used to not breathing out through my nose. I use a purge mask and am used to "venting" out any water that accumilates. It usally happens on the end of my dives when I am a little tired. I have always worn my mask a little on the loose side so I will see if wearing it tighter helps. It hasn't really been a problem so far but it sure is annoying. I never really new how to describe this problem until I read your thread. Thanks to everyone for the helpful hints. Cheers, Dave
(Offline)

8th August 2006, 15:04	#28 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 969	Re: bizarre breathing problem Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave R) I have the same problem on almost every dive. I have only about 30 hours on ccr and still getting used to not breathing out through my nose. I use a purge mask and am used to "venting" out any water that accumilates. It usally happens on the end of my dives when I am a little tired. I have always worn my mask a little on the loose side so I will see if wearing it tighter helps. It hasn't really been a problem so far but it sure is annoying. I never really new how to describe this problem until I read your thread. Thanks to everyone for the helpful hints. Cheers, Dave It wasn't a problem for me either, just annoying, until it happened on this deeper dive. So better to get it under control before doing the deep stuff. I
(Online)

8th August 2006, 16:32	#29 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,621	Re: bizarre breathing problem I'm glad someone bought this up and its not just me.... only happens rarely, I think when the loop is abit full, I get a strange "glugging" sensation in the rear of my mouth at the top (pallet?) like snoring I guess... Never on OC, only CCR. I put it down to a pressure differential between mouth and nose/mask area, I found that blowing out my nose usually solved it (I very rarely have a problem with nose breathing) perhaps I'm slowly taking gas from the mask creating abit of a vaccum? Interesting if bizarre thread! BEN __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

8th August 2006, 17:05	#30 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 861	Re: bizarre breathing problem a new reason to pay attention when using hypoxic diluant gases !!!
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