PADI touting CCRS?

zmcave · 1st August 2006, 19:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Freak214)

I wonder if this will change PADI's stance on instructors using rebreathers during open water training. Their current position is OW instructors must be on open circuit to teach a class.

JohnL

You can't teach entry-level divers on any Rebreather. As they say, there are safety and control issues to consider, such as ascents and descents made more complicated.
You can conduct continuing education courses on a SCR though (provided you are certified to use that particular SCR). You can't use a CCR in any program.

cheers,

Zé.

zmcave · 1st August 2006, 20:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan)

A question to you - if you are an instructor using a rebreather, how do you demonstrate regulator removal, air sharing using an octopus to your students?

Hi Mark. For Padi the question of demonstrating skills doen't really apply since instructors only demonstrate skills on confined water dives. Students in OW dives complete skills with eachother or with the divemaster. The question is really beeing able to respond to a stressed diver (usually entry-level student) in a way that is quick and effective. I can better go up and down to get students and supervise in OC than in Rebreather.

cheers,

Zé.

dive2dive2000 · 1st August 2006, 20:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Freak214)

I wonder if this will change PADI's stance on instructors using rebreathers during open water training. Their current position is OW instructors must be on open circuit to teach a class.

JohnL

Do you think it is fair, or better yet prudent to teach OC/OW students using a CCR

If you do I am curious to what you see the pros are as well as the cons, and why the pros would out weigh the cons. Now AOW or above that is a whole other subject. My wife was a very skiddish OW student, and if MR Rebreather diver showed up that would have been the end, not the beginning of her dive. Well, okay, now I get your point

scubanimal · 1st August 2006, 20:29

I use my Dolphin for the ADV class deep and the deep specialty. It allows me extra bottom time so that each student gets about 10 minutes of skills & drills prior to ascending to 60 where my DM cycles them up & down. Since I've started doing this I've seen a big jump in the student awareness of narcosis. I carry an independent bailout bottle in addition to my normal one, just in case as well.

I can’t see doing these on my YBOD, I just don’t think I’m as mobile and could handle an abnormal situation as well.

dive2dive2000 · 1st August 2006, 21:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by scubanimal)

I use my Dolphin for the ADV class deep and the deep specialty. It allows me extra bottom time so that each student gets about 10 minutes of skills & drills prior to ascending to 60 where my DM cycles them up & down. Since I've started doing this I've seen a big jump in the student awareness of narcosis. I carry an independent bailout bottle in addition to my normal one, just in case as well.

I can’t see doing these on my YBOD, I just don’t think I’m as mobile and could handle an abnormal situation as well.

I think for ADV classes thats great, and it is a shame that the agency's dont. But the statement was for OW?

Freak214 · 1st August 2006, 22:17

First, I am not an instructor... Least not yet, I am currently just a Dive Master.

One of the instructors that I work with used to lead the open water dives on a Dolphin. This was before it was forbidden by PADI. When he had to demo a skill that required a reg, he would switch to his bail out. AFAIK the instructor can use a rebreather for just about any other PADI cert dives.

JohnL

Mark Wan · 1st August 2006, 22:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave)

Hi Mark. For Padi the question of demonstrating skills doen't really apply since instructors only demonstrate skills on confined water dives. Students in OW dives complete skills with eachother or with the divemaster.

I have one more question. What if you need to correct a skill in open water? Who would demonstrate the skill again - the divemaster or the instructor?

zmcave · 1st August 2006, 22:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan)

I have one more question. What if you need to correct a skill in open water? Who would demonstrate the skill again - the divemaster or the instructor?

Mark, actually you can ask anyone to do it (instructor, dm, or even other student). Usually if a student has some problem remembering what skill I want him to do I will just skip him and let other students do the skill. After he saw others do it he will do it. If the student had its confined water not long before the OW dives it's not usually a problem. The problem is when they do the pool 7 months before the check out dives...

Zé.

**wedivebc** · 1st August 2006, 22:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

You mean that Curt B. has not made a new section of ADM, doing all the graphics and writeup for all rebreathers.

Andrew

I wouldn't know. I would subscribe to his mag if the shipping north of the border wasn't so expensive.

LukeN · 2nd August 2006, 13:51

As a ccr inst this is a load of crap! As a inst you can take up to 4 ccdr stds on a dive why couldn't you do the same for ow std's? Teaching any oc non deco course is like a holiday you don't even have to engage the brain, any inst who is ccr cerified should feel the same way! If only Padi understood ....

Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave)

You can't teach entry-level divers on any Rebreather. As they say, there are safety and control issues to consider, such as ascents and descents made more complicated.
You can conduct continuing education courses on a SCR though (provided you are certified to use that particular SCR). You can't use a CCR in any program.

cheers,

Zé.

1st August 2006, 19:54	#11 (permalink)
zmcave www.rebreather.com.br Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 184	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by Freak214) I wonder if this will change PADI's stance on instructors using rebreathers during open water training. Their current position is OW instructors must be on open circuit to teach a class. JohnL You can't teach entry-level divers on any Rebreather. As they say, there are safety and control issues to consider, such as ascents and descents made more complicated. You can conduct continuing education courses on a SCR though (provided you are certified to use that particular SCR). You can't use a CCR in any program. cheers, Zé.
(Online)

1st August 2006, 20:01	#12 (permalink)
zmcave www.rebreather.com.br Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 184	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan) A question to you - if you are an instructor using a rebreather, how do you demonstrate regulator removal, air sharing using an octopus to your students? Hi Mark. For Padi the question of demonstrating skills doen't really apply since instructors only demonstrate skills on confined water dives. Students in OW dives complete skills with eachother or with the divemaster. The question is really beeing able to respond to a stressed diver (usually entry-level student) in a way that is quick and effective. I can better go up and down to get students and supervise in OC than in Rebreather. cheers, Zé.
(Online)

1st August 2006, 20:18	#13 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by Freak214) I wonder if this will change PADI's stance on instructors using rebreathers during open water training. Their current position is OW instructors must be on open circuit to teach a class. JohnL Do you think it is fair, or better yet prudent to teach OC/OW students using a CCR If you do I am curious to what you see the pros are as well as the cons, and why the pros would out weigh the cons. Now AOW or above that is a whole other subject. My wife was a very skiddish OW student, and if MR Rebreather diver showed up that would have been the end, not the beginning of her dive. Well, okay, now I get your point __________________ Safe Diving, Martin "but what's the fun of getting what you need, instead of what you want?"
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1st August 2006, 20:29	#14 (permalink)
scubanimal New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Optima Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 89	Re: PADI touting CCRS? I use my Dolphin for the ADV class deep and the deep specialty. It allows me extra bottom time so that each student gets about 10 minutes of skills & drills prior to ascending to 60 where my DM cycles them up & down. Since I've started doing this I've seen a big jump in the student awareness of narcosis. I carry an independent bailout bottle in addition to my normal one, just in case as well. I can’t see doing these on my YBOD, I just don’t think I’m as mobile and could handle an abnormal situation as well.
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1st August 2006, 21:30	#15 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by scubanimal) I use my Dolphin for the ADV class deep and the deep specialty. It allows me extra bottom time so that each student gets about 10 minutes of skills & drills prior to ascending to 60 where my DM cycles them up & down. Since I've started doing this I've seen a big jump in the student awareness of narcosis. I carry an independent bailout bottle in addition to my normal one, just in case as well. I can’t see doing these on my YBOD, I just don’t think I’m as mobile and could handle an abnormal situation as well. I think for ADV classes thats great, and it is a shame that the agency's dont. But the statement was for OW? __________________ Safe Diving, Martin "but what's the fun of getting what you need, instead of what you want?"
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1st August 2006, 22:17	#16 (permalink)
Freak214 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA, Virginia Posts: 46	Re: PADI touting CCRS? First, I am not an instructor... Least not yet, I am currently just a Dive Master. One of the instructors that I work with used to lead the open water dives on a Dolphin. This was before it was forbidden by PADI. When he had to demo a skill that required a reg, he would switch to his bail out. AFAIK the instructor can use a rebreather for just about any other PADI cert dives. JohnL
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1st August 2006, 22:20	#17 (permalink)
Mark Wan New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hammersmith, London Posts: 59	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave) Hi Mark. For Padi the question of demonstrating skills doen't really apply since instructors only demonstrate skills on confined water dives. Students in OW dives complete skills with eachother or with the divemaster. I have one more question. What if you need to correct a skill in open water? Who would demonstrate the skill again - the divemaster or the instructor? __________________ newbie inspo vision diver
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1st August 2006, 22:37	#18 (permalink)
zmcave www.rebreather.com.br Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 184	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan) I have one more question. What if you need to correct a skill in open water? Who would demonstrate the skill again - the divemaster or the instructor? Mark, actually you can ask anyone to do it (instructor, dm, or even other student). Usually if a student has some problem remembering what skill I want him to do I will just skip him and let other students do the skill. After he saw others do it he will do it. If the student had its confined water not long before the OW dives it's not usually a problem. The problem is when they do the pool 7 months before the check out dives... Zé.
(Online)

1st August 2006, 22:47	#19 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,410	Re: PADI touting CCRS? Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) You mean that Curt B. has not made a new section of ADM, doing all the graphics and writeup for all rebreathers. Andrew I wouldn't know. I would subscribe to his mag if the shipping north of the border wasn't so expensive. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die Last edited by wedivebc : 1st August 2006 at 22:50.
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2nd August 2006, 13:51	#20 (permalink)
LukeN New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Prism Topaz Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Australia,West Aus Posts: 82	Re: PADI touting CCRS? As a ccr inst this is a load of crap! As a inst you can take up to 4 ccdr stds on a dive why couldn't you do the same for ow std's? Teaching any oc non deco course is like a holiday you don't even have to engage the brain, any inst who is ccr cerified should feel the same way! If only Padi understood .... Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave) You can't teach entry-level divers on any Rebreather. As they say, there are safety and control issues to consider, such as ascents and descents made more complicated. You can conduct continuing education courses on a SCR though (provided you are certified to use that particular SCR). You can't use a CCR in any program. cheers, Zé. __________________ Luke Nelson www.imagedive.com.au
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