Training standards - OC to CC Tmx

PeteS · 26th July 2006, 07:31

Here's a silly question. I'm sure that deep in the back of my mind the answer is hidden away, but I can't find it.

When an OC trimix diver crosses over to CC (as they all must - the pull of the silent side is strong) what level are they certified to? Back on air, or are they certified to use trimix as though they are OC?

And yes, I do understand the need to do lots of practice on a unit before you go deep, but do you really need another course?

decoweenie · 26th July 2006, 07:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

When an OC trimix diver crosses over to CC (as they all must - the pull of the silent side is strong) what level are they certified to? Back on air, or are they certified to use trimix as though they are OC?

As far as the agency is concerned, back to air diluent and air depth limit.

I think the "justifications" for the additional training are (right or wrong is up to your opinion):

different bail-out procedure for CC Trimix (against OC Trimix)
multiple bail-out procedures available on CC
different gas volume computation due to limited number of stages
buoyancy issues with additional source (i.e. loop volume)

I am sure there are more, but those are the first ones popped in my mind...

lizardland · 26th July 2006, 09:51

Something that just occurred to me, I don't have a mix cert on my Rebreather but I do have a trimix cert on OC. If I take my 3's into my local shop and ask for a mix fill and an O2 fill it's pretty obvious it's for a rebreather (the DIL sticker may be the give away). Which cert card should the shop be asking for? Should they refuse to fill RB bottles for someone with no RB cert even though they have the OC certs to buy the gas?

Mark Chase · 26th July 2006, 10:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

Here's a silly question. I'm sure that deep in the back of my mind the answer is hidden away, but I can't find it.

When an OC trimix diver crosses over to CC (as they all must - the pull of the silent side is strong) what level are they certified to? Back on air, or are they certified to use trimix as though they are OC?

And yes, I do understand the need to do lots of practice on a unit before you go deep, but do you really need another course?

On a TDI cert you are qualified to do full decompresion diving on an air diluient.

This is because you already have TDI decompresion procedures.

If you dont then you are limited to no decompresion diving with a 6min safety stop (i think)

So basicly you skip Mod2 and go streight into mod 3 Trimix

That said I dont here of many CCR divers actualy doing Mod2???

atb

Mark Chase

PeteS · 26th July 2006, 10:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

As far as the agency is concerned, back to air diluent and air depth limit.

I think the "justifications" for the additional training are (right or wrong is up to your opinion):

different bail-out procedure for CC Trimix (against OC Trimix)
multiple bail-out procedures available on CC
different gas volume computation due to limited number of stages
buoyancy issues with additional source (i.e. loop volume)

I am sure there are more, but those are the first ones popped in my mind...

Hmmmm, as you say "right or wrong....", I just don't see that much difference. Bale out is baleout after all. And I still breath the same on OC baleout or OC baleout. CCR to SCR baleouts / manual injection is a skill set, but we covered those on Mod 1. As for bouyancy issues, that just comes down to being aware, surely?

Anyway, even assuming that all the above points are relevant, it would appear that there would be a lot of the CCR3 training course that just isn't applicable for a Tmx OC diver going from CCR1 to CCR3. I just seem to remember a lot of wasted time on my Mod3 course, covering OC theory and practice I'd already done. I was just wondering if things had improved.

The nagging think in the back of my mind was once upon a time I thought there was talk of passing OC to CCR as being at the OC level. That is if OC trimix was held, CCR trimix was what you were "allowed" to dive. After all, you can buy the gas, it just comes in smaller tins........ Ho hum.......

PeteS · 26th July 2006, 10:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

So basicly you skip Mod2 and go streight into mod 3 Trimix

This is what happened to me, I went IANTD Mod 1 to Mod 3, already holding IANTD OC Tmx.

**RichClark** · 26th July 2006, 11:12

Hi,

I thought that I'd read that IANTD MOD1 allowed the use of Normoxic Trimix after something like 25hrs if the diver is already OC Trimix???

Could be talking out of my arse though

Cheers

Rich

**nigelh** · 26th July 2006, 11:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

Bale out is baleout after all.

Is it?
I'm confused.
Bale out : to remove water from a boat
Bail out : To extricate from a difficult situation (amongst others)
I think it's the second but...

I did mod 2 (normoxic) but I think I'm in a minority. Most people seem to go straight to mod 3. At the time it was the 25 hours on the unit for Normoxic and 100 for full Trimix that decided it. I nark to badly to take a Rebreather to near 40 meters on air.

I'd like to do 3 but 100 hours takes a while when you have other things to do with your life. Conversely a friend did 'Rec Trimix' with his mod 1. How is that different from my Normoxic?

Deepwreck · 26th July 2006, 14:35

Heres a question for you. What if you are Cert in CCR Trimix, but not OC Trimix, then should a shop fill your big tanks? After all CCR only needs those small tanks, right.

Or is the CCR Trimix card the end all of cert cards? So why would a shop not fill small tanks on a OC Cert but would fill big tanks on a CCR cert.

Or what if I want to fill doubles with mix, but only have a CCR Card. What if I want to do a dive that requires lots of bailout gas, in big tanks, should I have to get an OC cert card?

**nigelh** · 26th July 2006, 15:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deepwreck)

Heres a question for you. What if you are Cert in CCR Trimix, but not OC Trimix, then should a shop fill your big tanks?

I tend to fill at home but on a trip away I drew the short straw and fetched the cylinders down to the shop for fills for twelve on the Saturday night because my truck's big. I was wondering the same thing so I asked the guy filling what cards he needed for the fills and he pointed to the sticker on the cash register.

He took VISA etc.
I didn't argue as I thought explanations might only complicate matters as I was buying some hypoxic mixes.

26th July 2006, 07:31	#1 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 511	Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Here's a silly question. I'm sure that deep in the back of my mind the answer is hidden away, but I can't find it. When an OC trimix diver crosses over to CC (as they all must - the pull of the silent side is strong) what level are they certified to? Back on air, or are they certified to use trimix as though they are OC? And yes, I do understand the need to do lots of practice on a unit before you go deep, but do you really need another course? __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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26th July 2006, 07:38	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) When an OC trimix diver crosses over to CC (as they all must - the pull of the silent side is strong) what level are they certified to? Back on air, or are they certified to use trimix as though they are OC? As far as the agency is concerned, back to air diluent and air depth limit. I think the "justifications" for the additional training are (right or wrong is up to your opinion): different bail-out procedure for CC Trimix (against OC Trimix) multiple bail-out procedures available on CC different gas volume computation due to limited number of stages buoyancy issues with additional source (i.e. loop volume) I am sure there are more, but those are the first ones popped in my mind... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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26th July 2006, 09:51	#3 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,186	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Something that just occurred to me, I don't have a mix cert on my Rebreather but I do have a trimix cert on OC. If I take my 3's into my local shop and ask for a mix fill and an O2 fill it's pretty obvious it's for a rebreather (the DIL sticker may be the give away). Which cert card should the shop be asking for? Should they refuse to fill RB bottles for someone with no RB cert even though they have the OC certs to buy the gas? __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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26th July 2006, 10:21	#4 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) Here's a silly question. I'm sure that deep in the back of my mind the answer is hidden away, but I can't find it. When an OC trimix diver crosses over to CC (as they all must - the pull of the silent side is strong) what level are they certified to? Back on air, or are they certified to use trimix as though they are OC? And yes, I do understand the need to do lots of practice on a unit before you go deep, but do you really need another course? On a TDI cert you are qualified to do full decompresion diving on an air diluient. This is because you already have TDI decompresion procedures. If you dont then you are limited to no decompresion diving with a 6min safety stop (i think) So basicly you skip Mod2 and go streight into mod 3 Trimix That said I dont here of many CCR divers actualy doing Mod2??? atb Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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26th July 2006, 10:32	#5 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 511	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) As far as the agency is concerned, back to air diluent and air depth limit. I think the "justifications" for the additional training are (right or wrong is up to your opinion): different bail-out procedure for CC Trimix (against OC Trimix) multiple bail-out procedures available on CC different gas volume computation due to limited number of stages buoyancy issues with additional source (i.e. loop volume) I am sure there are more, but those are the first ones popped in my mind... Hmmmm, as you say "right or wrong....", I just don't see that much difference. Bale out is baleout after all. And I still breath the same on OC baleout or OC baleout. CCR to SCR baleouts / manual injection is a skill set, but we covered those on Mod 1. As for bouyancy issues, that just comes down to being aware, surely? Anyway, even assuming that all the above points are relevant, it would appear that there would be a lot of the CCR3 training course that just isn't applicable for a Tmx OC diver going from CCR1 to CCR3. I just seem to remember a lot of wasted time on my Mod3 course, covering OC theory and practice I'd already done. I was just wondering if things had improved. The nagging think in the back of my mind was once upon a time I thought there was talk of passing OC to CCR as being at the OC level. That is if OC trimix was held, CCR trimix was what you were "allowed" to dive. After all, you can buy the gas, it just comes in smaller tins........ Ho hum....... __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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26th July 2006, 10:46	#6 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 511	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) So basicly you skip Mod2 and go streight into mod 3 Trimix This is what happened to me, I went IANTD Mod 1 to Mod 3, already holding IANTD OC Tmx. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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26th July 2006, 11:12	#7 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 766	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Hi, I thought that I'd read that IANTD MOD1 allowed the use of Normoxic Trimix after something like 25hrs if the diver is already OC Trimix??? Could be talking out of my arse though Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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26th July 2006, 11:34	#8 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 792	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) Bale out is baleout after all. Is it? I'm confused. Bale out : to remove water from a boat Bail out : To extricate from a difficult situation (amongst others) I think it's the second but... I did mod 2 (normoxic) but I think I'm in a minority. Most people seem to go straight to mod 3. At the time it was the 25 hours on the unit for Normoxic and 100 for full Trimix that decided it. I nark to badly to take a Rebreather to near 40 meters on air. I'd like to do 3 but 100 hours takes a while when you have other things to do with your life. Conversely a friend did 'Rec Trimix' with his mod 1. How is that different from my Normoxic? __________________ nigelh
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26th July 2006, 14:35	#9 (permalink)
Deepwreck Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 112	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Heres a question for you. What if you are Cert in CCR Trimix, but not OC Trimix, then should a shop fill your big tanks? After all CCR only needs those small tanks, right. Or is the CCR Trimix card the end all of cert cards? So why would a shop not fill small tanks on a OC Cert but would fill big tanks on a CCR cert. Or what if I want to fill doubles with mix, but only have a CCR Card. What if I want to do a dive that requires lots of bailout gas, in big tanks, should I have to get an OC cert card? __________________ OC is for Bailout! Go Big, then go home.
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26th July 2006, 15:30	#10 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 792	Re: Training standards - OC to CC Tmx Quote: (Originally Posted by Deepwreck) Heres a question for you. What if you are Cert in CCR Trimix, but not OC Trimix, then should a shop fill your big tanks? I tend to fill at home but on a trip away I drew the short straw and fetched the cylinders down to the shop for fills for twelve on the Saturday night because my truck's big. I was wondering the same thing so I asked the guy filling what cards he needed for the fills and he pointed to the sticker on the cash register. He took VISA etc. I didn't argue as I thought explanations might only complicate matters as I was buying some hypoxic mixes. __________________ nigelh
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