Any comments on this?

rogeringebo

http://www.deeplife.co.uk/files/How_...ill_People.pdf

/Rodge

dan@scuba-training.net

"Objective: To make using a rebreather no more dangerous than getting on a Boeing 737 shuttle from Edinburgh to London "

...so have they [Boeing, FAA, NTSB, et. al.] been able to figure out what caused the rudder "hard-over" B-737 crashes?

(They haven't, yet the aircraft is still in service between Edinburgh and London)

"The fact is people are dying because equipment is designed badly, with inadequate safeguards."

Should we stop using our Rebreather's until the EU, UN, IMF, NRA, FBI, AAA or AA say it is safe to use them?

rogeringebo

Is there a "Deep Life" rebreather out there?
/Rodge

Mdemon

Without model or date, it all seems pointless and agenda-driven.

So, rebreathers aren't perfect. Fine. Design and market a better one.

__________________
www.southwestmafia.com

It's as easy as abc;

a) "Carry adequate bailout"

b) "If in doubt, bail out"

c) "Always know your PO2"

If you find that hard, stick to crochet.

"Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"

Gibbon

try clicking the left mouse button over the "Open Revolution eCCR" on the home page of the site
http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or.php

Alex Ward AD_Ward9 will be along soon I am sure....

rogeringebo

I guess thats no then...
/R

Mark Chase

Yes it all sounds wonderfull the only question is does it work? folowed of course by how much will it cost

ATB

Mark Chase

__________________
Is it supposed to make that noise ?

I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit.

Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt

"Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System

Danil

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/open-...html#post52793

Re: Head replacement for existing CCR rebreathers - 16th June 2006, 10:43



Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime)
Hey Alex,
Any estimates on when it might really come on the market? Are we talking a year, two years, etc?
In service during 2007. Launches may be late on this year from some of the companies going down the O.R. route. The test and verification programme involves some "quite interesting" manned dives. More info after they have been carried out.
Cheers,

Alex

__________________
--------------------
Dan Nilsson, Meg 67

Drmike

It will likely come on the market at about the same time as his CO2 sensors....


[gosh I just cant help myself today ]
[having said that I would be at the front of the que for a half decent CO2 sensor]


I hope he does build the safest CCR on the market. If he does I will buy it and I will dive it.

In the meantime Ill dive what I consider to be the safest [given the type of diving I do].

__________________
Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you

silent running

Hi Rodge, all. It seems to me that incidents 1-3 would almost certainly have been avoided if the units had a passive 2dry driven directly off the sensors, with no micro processors/electronics-Prism, Mks-or were MCCR. #1 in particular is an example of an ECCR which has an obvious, truly dangerous design flaw. And to my knowledge, there's only one early version of a particular ECCR that will allow an underwater cal and I believe this is no longer possible in later versions. Are there other ECCRs that are capable of this?

#4 seems to be the kind of mistake which is IMHO, both the manufacturers and users fault. I have made this mistake on a Dolphin with the P connectors. I only did it once before I learned how important it is to give all connections a good tug to verify their integrity. Luckilly these types of failures usually occur early in a dive, while a rapid ascent is still possible. If there's a simple, mechanical way to make this mistake impossible, I'm all for it.
But think about how easy it is to forget to turn on your gas before jumping in the water, an easy, quick way to die. Any foolproof solution to this danger would involve more electronics, more mechanical devices, more general complexity and also more failure points and more diver complacency...

#5 faulty injection alg problem would certainly be impossible with an MCCR, it would also be impossible with a Prism, which shuts the solenoid off if more than 1 sensor is voted out, which would happen if there was no rise in the PO2 after continuos injection and descent. As for having all 3 sensors become current limited on the same dive, seems very unlikely to me, even if they're changed at the same time. In order to make this a possibilty, I think they would also have to have been manufactured on the same day. Am I missing something? But of course I agree that changing all the sensors at once is a bad idea as even 2 failing at the same time is more task loading than I'd like...
Trying to build in a failsafe system to prevent changing them all at the same time would have to involve some electronic identifying of the sensors-what if you wanted to take them out of the unit inbetween dives? This would then involve some cooperation btw the CCR maker and the sensor maker, plus microchips, right? Again, how easy will this actually be? How much trouble for how much risk?

#6 seems like a deceptively easy problem to solve-just drill people hard on which side of the loop is which and come up with nifty aliterative slogans to reinforce the difference, like right=rich etc... But the problem, IMHO, lies burried in the lynchpin of this very sensible mindset-muscle memory. It's mostly a good thing as because it's mostly mechanical and automatic, it gives us time to think. But if the 2 different emergency tasks are similar in terms of the muscle memory response, it's no longer an advantage that the solutions both rely on similar muscle memory responses...
It's very easy to get your L and R mixed up, even if you're not in a panic situation. Think of giving someone directions to a place you've been many times before, you sometimes get the L and R turns mixed up, don't you? I do. Then there's the "whose left and right" are we using as a reference factor? If both manual inject buttons are in the same place on each lung, what's to stop you from mixing them up when panic/muscle memory takes over? Very little. To me the easy check against this quick draw muscle memory refelex is to make the button placement very different for O2 and Dil. To my knowledge, the only unit which does this is the Prism-Dil add high on the outside of the inhale CL, O2 add low on the inside of the exhale CL. Much less chance of mixing them up and having the Dil add high on the outside of the lung makes it closest to the inhale hose-fresh gas when you need it fastest...

#7 illustrates the problem with having only 1 way to add Dil to the loop. This example and others, shows that there should always be 2. And a BOV would seem to be the simple, most beneficial way to do this. This is, as Stefan pointed out to me, a deficiency in several CCRs, including the Prism. Why is the O2 side of the loop more important than the volume/Dil side? Lack of either can do you in...

#8 is another impossibility on an MCCR. It also seems like a stupid user mistake. Who would change the O2 reg and not check the IP specs of that reg with the unit? Very basic stuff. It is agreed that cheap solenoids not designed for CCRs should not be tolerated. But whatever solenoid you use, if it sticks, it should not stick in the open position, period. Is this not merely a function of the way it's wired? I'm not sure but whatever the case may be, it can't make much of a differnce to the bottom line of 6K CCR if you use a $15 solenoid or an $80 one...
Yet another problem which could be handled by an ECCR with a passive 2dry-PO2 climbing, solenoid open, turn power off, read passive 2dry, turn off O2 valve, open for manual injection, as needed...

#9 like #4, another instance of a mechanical problem which could and should be easily checked by the user. Again, if it can made foolproof with a simple mechanical device, I'm all for it.

That's it for now, gotta go, workday ending. I've probably missed something, but being corrected is still a reliable way to learn. Hats off to Alex and company for collecting the data and asking the hard ?s, there's always room for improvment... -Andy