More bailout please....

Mdemon · 22nd June 2006, 12:15

I've been using ali 10's all week and they are fine - give me a lovely trim too.

Back home I was using ali 80's. Huge, heavy. Lots of gas.

You know my preference for bailout, but if you must go retro, I think the 80's are it.

CharlieT · 22nd June 2006, 12:39

I'm adding a 5.7 ali as a 3rd tank to two ali 7's.

Going to put 100% O2 in the 5.7, a mid nitrox/trimix in one 7 and probably 16/40 or 16/50 in the other 7.

At the moment I'm running 2 7's with my Vision but on the Merc Enterprise and Afric dives last Fri, Sat and Sun I would have had to rely on Endeavour's O2 drop tank with worst case scenario. Hence the 5.7 ali.

Not sure there's an ideal answer for a range of dives in the 50-80m depth.

I certainly don't want to emptying tanks to provide best mixes on every dive!!

***Beanie*** · 22nd June 2006, 12:57

what do the gas calcs come out at if you go for
a bottom gas
50%
O2

Just wandering

What gases would you put in if you had 2 80s?

pchanning · 22nd June 2006, 13:13

I'd recommend a bird who dives OC

or is that Juz?

***Beanie*** · 22nd June 2006, 13:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by pchanning)

I'd recommend a bird who dives OC

or is that Juz?

but isn't yours flogging her twinset

RobPot · 22nd June 2006, 13:19

What about 4 x Ali 40s between two of you?

gathan · 22nd June 2006, 13:23

I regularly use ali 80s without any problems. They ride well in the water. I'll carry up to 2 on my left side. Additional cylinders are kept on a leash off of my left waist "D" ring. I find it easier to keep my right side clean for reels light etc.

Andre

Mark Chase · 22nd June 2006, 13:59

Simon and I have discussed this already but for the sake of this thread.

Dumpy steel 10s are about 2/3 the size of ali 80s

Dumpy steel 10s can be blown to silly pressures but generally i run my ones at 250bar

250bar in a 10 gives 2500ltrs of gas.

Al80s are bloody massive. bigger than a steel 12

The UK CE mark 235bar ones are very very heavy out of the water and more negative than steel in the water.

The new Diving Nicnack AL80s are the USA spec ones are the pucker lighter DIR version. They are still very very heavy to carry on land but they are 1.5kg lighter than a full steel 10ltr in the water.

Forget mathematical calculations i weighed them with fishing scales

The light weight ali 80s are only rated to 200bar Over blowing ali cylinders is a very very bad idea as they are in no way as tolerant of this as steel is and will fail on the neck.

So 11 X 200 = 2200 bigger tanks but slightly less gas than the steels even at the 235 bar fill rating on the steel.

A full Ali 80 is negative. it sinks like a stone. Janous passed off his Ali 80 to me in Vobster and I went down fast and he went up fast. To get the "lovely neutral floaty" feeling you need to run them at 160 bar.

160 X 11 = 1760ltrs of gas.

250 X 7ltr = 1750ltrs of gas

Id rather have the 7's

Kitting up an a crowded boat with two ali 80s is bordering on the imposable. Standing up after kitting up is a back breaker.

Ali 80s are £135 a steel 10 is £90

Ali 80s are 2kg positivly buoyant when empty Steel 10s are 0.5kg positive buoyant when empty

I went for steel because once in the water it doesn't mean very much to me what tanks i am using i can trim them out with the wing and if they are rigged properly i dont notice them at all. So the principal basis of my decision was what they were like on land on the boat and for gas logistics.

Steel won hands down.

ATB

Mark Chase

nmanfield · 22nd June 2006, 15:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan)

Need some more, bigger bailout tanks than my current setup of 7's. Whats the consensus on here as to what I should go for bearing in mind that I'm talking about getting and carrying 2 of them (one each side):

Steel 10's or Ally 80's or something else?

I know the 80's have slightly more capacity, but they're huge and heavy out of the water! As for bouyancy characteristics, as far as I'm concerned they are only relevant in this application in a full state as that's how they'll be staying for 99.999% (hopefully) of the time.

Hi Simon,

I had an idea suggested to me that makes sense and is a good logistically. Lean offboard plugged into diluent manual inflate (could be heliox (but remember a good thorough loop flush before decending to clear air from lungs). Use the onboard either air or best mix for dive for short term bailout only attached to your BOV. On right side you can have your high mix suitable for flushing the counterlungs on ascent to shorten deco as well as an O/C bailout mix.

Haven't dived this configuration myself and I'm sure that I may have made some glaring errors but wondered if anybody is actually doing this.

The advantage is that your 3 litre on board is always full and gives maximum time for use at depth with your BOV. Also means that your not constantly having to fill and mix the 3's rather, you can use the same offboard for several dives with a more accurate mix. This would be especially good for travel abroad IMHO. You can either manually inject and/or stick it into the adv

- flameproof undies applied!

ATB

Nick
BTW - fancy coming to Ukraine to dive some wrecks?

***schford*** · 22nd June 2006, 17:56

Why not add a third cylinder say a 3l with 80% O2 in - your only going to be on it shallow so wont use up much gas - plus it give's you another option to stay on your breather if something happenes to your 100%...

Course you will need to tweak your other mixes a bit then......

My bailout is usually 1 * 7 for fluffy....

2 * 7 for most

2 * 7 and a 3 for deeper....

If thats not enough - then I would Rob Sarahs or vice versa - We always dive as a close buddy pair...

View Poll Results: Bigger bailout tanks...
Steel 10's	5	6.49%
Ally 80's	61	79.22%
Something else (please specify)	11	14.29%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

22nd June 2006, 12:15	#11 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,906	Re: More bailout please.... I've been using ali 10's all week and they are fine - give me a lovely trim too. Back home I was using ali 80's. Huge, heavy. Lots of gas. You know my preference for bailout, but if you must go retro, I think the 80's are it. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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22nd June 2006, 12:39	#12 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: More bailout please.... I'm adding a 5.7 ali as a 3rd tank to two ali 7's. Going to put 100% O2 in the 5.7, a mid nitrox/trimix in one 7 and probably 16/40 or 16/50 in the other 7. At the moment I'm running 2 7's with my Vision but on the Merc Enterprise and Afric dives last Fri, Sat and Sun I would have had to rely on Endeavour's O2 drop tank with worst case scenario. Hence the 5.7 ali. Not sure there's an ideal answer for a range of dives in the 50-80m depth. I certainly don't want to emptying tanks to provide best mixes on every dive!!
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22nd June 2006, 12:57	#13 (permalink)
*Beanie* Close to that red button Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,207	Re: More bailout please.... what do the gas calcs come out at if you go for a bottom gas 50% O2 Just wandering What gases would you put in if you had 2 80s? __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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22nd June 2006, 13:13	#14 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Re: More bailout please.... I'd recommend a bird who dives OC or is that Juz? __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival.
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22nd June 2006, 13:15	#15 (permalink)
*Beanie* Close to that red button Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,207	Re: More bailout please.... Quote: (Originally Posted by pchanning) I'd recommend a bird who dives OC or is that Juz? but isn't yours flogging her twinset __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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22nd June 2006, 13:19	#16 (permalink)
RobPot Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portishead - Gateway to the South West Posts: 180	Re: More bailout please.... What about 4 x Ali 40s between two of you?
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22nd June 2006, 13:23	#17 (permalink)
gathan MixedGas Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tottenham, Ontario, Canada Posts: 202	Re: More bailout please.... I regularly use ali 80s without any problems. They ride well in the water. I'll carry up to 2 on my left side. Additional cylinders are kept on a leash off of my left waist "D" ring. I find it easier to keep my right side clean for reels light etc. Andre
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22nd June 2006, 13:59	#18 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,562	Re: More bailout please.... Simon and I have discussed this already but for the sake of this thread. Dumpy steel 10s are about 2/3 the size of ali 80s Dumpy steel 10s can be blown to silly pressures but generally i run my ones at 250bar 250bar in a 10 gives 2500ltrs of gas. Al80s are bloody massive. bigger than a steel 12 The UK CE mark 235bar ones are very very heavy out of the water and more negative than steel in the water. The new Diving Nicnack AL80s are the USA spec ones are the pucker lighter DIR version. They are still very very heavy to carry on land but they are 1.5kg lighter than a full steel 10ltr in the water. Forget mathematical calculations i weighed them with fishing scales The light weight ali 80s are only rated to 200bar Over blowing ali cylinders is a very very bad idea as they are in no way as tolerant of this as steel is and will fail on the neck. So 11 X 200 = 2200 bigger tanks but slightly less gas than the steels even at the 235 bar fill rating on the steel. A full Ali 80 is negative. it sinks like a stone. Janous passed off his Ali 80 to me in Vobster and I went down fast and he went up fast. To get the "lovely neutral floaty" feeling you need to run them at 160 bar. 160 X 11 = 1760ltrs of gas. 250 X 7ltr = 1750ltrs of gas Id rather have the 7's Kitting up an a crowded boat with two ali 80s is bordering on the imposable. Standing up after kitting up is a back breaker. Ali 80s are £135 a steel 10 is £90 Ali 80s are 2kg positivly buoyant when empty Steel 10s are 0.5kg positive buoyant when empty I went for steel because once in the water it doesn't mean very much to me what tanks i am using i can trim them out with the wing and if they are rigged properly i dont notice them at all. So the principal basis of my decision was what they were like on land on the boat and for gas logistics. Steel won hands down. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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22nd June 2006, 15:13	#19 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: More bailout please.... Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan) Need some more, bigger bailout tanks than my current setup of 7's. Whats the consensus on here as to what I should go for bearing in mind that I'm talking about getting and carrying 2 of them (one each side): Steel 10's or Ally 80's or something else? I know the 80's have slightly more capacity, but they're huge and heavy out of the water! As for bouyancy characteristics, as far as I'm concerned they are only relevant in this application in a full state as that's how they'll be staying for 99.999% (hopefully) of the time. Hi Simon, I had an idea suggested to me that makes sense and is a good logistically. Lean offboard plugged into diluent manual inflate (could be heliox (but remember a good thorough loop flush before decending to clear air from lungs). Use the onboard either air or best mix for dive for short term bailout only attached to your BOV. On right side you can have your high mix suitable for flushing the counterlungs on ascent to shorten deco as well as an O/C bailout mix. Haven't dived this configuration myself and I'm sure that I may have made some glaring errors but wondered if anybody is actually doing this. The advantage is that your 3 litre on board is always full and gives maximum time for use at depth with your BOV. Also means that your not constantly having to fill and mix the 3's rather, you can use the same offboard for several dives with a more accurate mix. This would be especially good for travel abroad IMHO. You can either manually inject and/or stick it into the adv - flameproof undies applied! ATB Nick BTW - fancy coming to Ukraine to dive some wrecks? __________________ Tub 'O Lard
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22nd June 2006, 17:56	#20 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,674	Re: More bailout please.... Why not add a third cylinder say a 3l with 80% O2 in - your only going to be on it shallow so wont use up much gas - plus it give's you another option to stay on your breather if something happenes to your 100%... Course you will need to tweak your other mixes a bit then...... My bailout is usually 1 * 7 for fluffy.... 2 * 7 for most 2 * 7 and a 3 for deeper.... If thats not enough - then I would Rob Sarahs or vice versa - We always dive as a close buddy pair... __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use Last edited by schford : 22nd June 2006 at 17:59.
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