Oxygen Generation

Gibbon · 8th June 2006, 05:34

I see that there are many continuous flow PSA O2 generators available for medical purposes, but the output is <= 93% +-3%

Is there any reason why multiple PSA systems cannot be used in sequence to produce a higher percentage of O2?

Check out the Invacare HomeFill II Oxygen Compressor Ambulatory Package

http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search

If only it was half the price and did 99% @ 200BAR !!

***jradomski*** · 8th June 2006, 06:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gibbon)

I see that there are many continuous flow PSA O2 generators available for medical purposes, but the output is <= 93% +-3%

Is there any reason why multiple PSA systems cannot be used in sequence to produce a higher percentage of O2?

Check out the Invacare HomeFill II Oxygen Compressor Ambulatory Package

http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search

If only it was half the price and did 99% @ 200BAR !!

Sequencing will do no good.. A psa is designed to absorb n2 molecules.. Thats why Argon and trace elements are left behind.. N2 should only be present if the flow is greater than the bed capacity can absorb in a given time..There are add ons to get the purity higher, but it adds considerable cost and reduces the output..

***jradomski*** · 8th June 2006, 06:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Sequencing will do no good.. A psa is designed to absorb n2 molecules.. Thats why Argon and trace elements are left behind.. N2 should only be present if the flow is greater than the bed capacity can absorb in a given time..There are add ons to get the purity higher, but it adds considerable cost and reduces the output..

A perfectly operating PSA system is 95.4% oxygen

Gibbon · 8th June 2006, 06:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

A perfectly operating PSA system is 95.4% oxygen

To quote a 5 year old - "why"?

If air is 21%O2 and 79%N2 with less than 0.5% other gases how do you get 95.4% ?

What would the make up of the 95.4% be? do you get a a higher percentage of Argon and other gases that you do in air?

mortenkjerulff · 8th June 2006, 07:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gibbon)

To quote a 5 year old - "why"?

If air is 21%O2 and 79%N2 with less than 0.5% other gases how do you get 95.4% ?

What would the make up of the 95.4% be? do you get a a higher percentage of Argon and other gases that you do in air?

But if you remove the partial pressure of nitrogen (0.78 Bar nitrogen), you are left with 0.209 Bar oxygen + approx 0.01 Bar trace gasses, and then the calculations says 0.209/(0.209+0.01)*100 = 95.4% purity.

Morten

Gibbon · 8th June 2006, 07:21

I see said the blind man.

abowie · 8th June 2006, 08:03

They use O2 concentrators on Bikini to make their 75% deco mix.

iain-hsm · 8th June 2006, 11:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gibbon)

I see that there are many continuous flow PSA O2 generators available for medical purposes, but the output is <= 93% +-3% Is there any reason why multiple PSA systems cannot be used in sequence to produce a higher percentage of O2?

If only it was half the price and did 99% @ 200BAR !!

Good news and bad news for you on this. First the good. Will 99.42% be OK

iain-hsm · 8th June 2006, 12:02

Now for the bad. Our welder H in his Guantanamo specials. Oh and the plant may be a touch on the large size.

However to call this process oxygen generation is also bit misleading.
Concentrated air may be a better description with all the impurities included and concentrated. While a PSA generator whatever the size may give a pecentage aproaching 90-95% its the impurities both gaseous and in carcinogenic particulate that are the problem for breathing IMHO.

For diving stick with HP bottled gas produced from pure liquid LOX oxygen with a full factory gas analysis ticket on the cylinder. I would add the deeper you go the more important this becomes.

Loneshark · 8th June 2006, 16:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by abowie)

They use O2 concentrators on Bikini to make their 75% deco mix.

They do indeed, but will also tell rebreather divers that there is "likely" to be anything up to 4% argon in with an O2 fill.....

Ah those were the days.......

8th June 2006, 05:34	#1 (permalink)
Gibbon Southern Monkey Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: East Devon Posts: 226	Oxygen Generation I see that there are many continuous flow PSA O2 generators available for medical purposes, but the output is <= 93% +-3% Is there any reason why multiple PSA systems cannot be used in sequence to produce a higher percentage of O2? Check out the Invacare HomeFill II Oxygen Compressor Ambulatory Package http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search If only it was half the price and did 99% @ 200BAR !!
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8th June 2006, 06:35	#2 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: Oxygen Generation Quote: (Originally Posted by Gibbon) I see that there are many continuous flow PSA O2 generators available for medical purposes, but the output is <= 93% +-3% Is there any reason why multiple PSA systems cannot be used in sequence to produce a higher percentage of O2? Check out the Invacare HomeFill II Oxygen Compressor Ambulatory Package http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search If only it was half the price and did 99% @ 200BAR !! Sequencing will do no good.. A psa is designed to absorb n2 molecules.. Thats why Argon and trace elements are left behind.. N2 should only be present if the flow is greater than the bed capacity can absorb in a given time..There are add ons to get the purity higher, but it adds considerable cost and reduces the output.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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8th June 2006, 06:35	#3 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: Oxygen Generation Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Sequencing will do no good.. A psa is designed to absorb n2 molecules.. Thats why Argon and trace elements are left behind.. N2 should only be present if the flow is greater than the bed capacity can absorb in a given time..There are add ons to get the purity higher, but it adds considerable cost and reduces the output.. A perfectly operating PSA system is 95.4% oxygen __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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8th June 2006, 06:57	#4 (permalink)
Gibbon Southern Monkey Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: East Devon Posts: 226	Re: Oxygen Generation Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) A perfectly operating PSA system is 95.4% oxygen To quote a 5 year old - "why"? If air is 21%O2 and 79%N2 with less than 0.5% other gases how do you get 95.4% ? What would the make up of the 95.4% be? do you get a a higher percentage of Argon and other gases that you do in air?
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8th June 2006, 07:16	#5 (permalink)
mortenkjerulff Customise Me! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 133	Re: Oxygen Generation Quote: (Originally Posted by Gibbon) To quote a 5 year old - "why"? If air is 21%O2 and 79%N2 with less than 0.5% other gases how do you get 95.4% ? What would the make up of the 95.4% be? do you get a a higher percentage of Argon and other gases that you do in air? But if you remove the partial pressure of nitrogen (0.78 Bar nitrogen), you are left with 0.209 Bar oxygen + approx 0.01 Bar trace gasses, and then the calculations says 0.209/(0.209+0.01)*100 = 95.4% purity. Morten
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8th June 2006, 07:21	#6 (permalink)
Gibbon Southern Monkey Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: East Devon Posts: 226	Re: Oxygen Generation I see said the blind man.
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8th June 2006, 08:03	#7 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 573	Re: Oxygen Generation They use O2 concentrators on Bikini to make their 75% deco mix. __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
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8th June 2006, 16:52	#10 (permalink)
Loneshark New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hull East Yorks Posts: 57	Re: Oxygen Generation Quote: (Originally Posted by abowie) They use O2 concentrators on Bikini to make their 75% deco mix. They do indeed, but will also tell rebreather divers that there is "likely" to be anything up to 4% argon in with an O2 fill..... Ah those were the days.......
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