Do you carry a stage bttle?

Skipbreather · 22nd May 2006, 03:53

Well, for all those who carry a stage bottle……..

I *FINALLY* had the sun. moon, & stars align- as well had enough days off from flying– and got the boat into the water and took the Meg to a favorite Great Lakes wreck today. Dive buddy & self went thru an exercise that – just maybe - could be a good refresher for anyone who dives with a stage bottle on which they depend for deco and/ or bailout.

We chose this particular wreck because its rail is level at about 30 m/ 100 ft. Prior to dive we substituted digital gas integrated computers for the lollipops. We recorded depth. Went to OC stage bailout. Swam the rail for the entire perimeter of the wreck (call it 200 ~ 250 m total). Recorded starting and finishing pressures & times. Did the math. Now have personal RMV values that are current for our present drag and stage configuration and, well, (Gawd, this hurts) age and physical condition. Ask yourself: “How long has it been since I did this to validate the values I use in my planning?”. ‘Nuff said.

Also, for those very few following the homebuilt Cys sized radial scrubber evolution: put an hour on it in 5 deg. C water at said 30 M. WOB is- admittedly subjective- as near to nill as is measurable by the calibrated guerilla diver inhale.

“Got Bailout?”

Ken

Jason Blackwell · 22nd May 2006, 07:37

Great minds must think alike!

Two weeks ago I fitted a Three mix / three transmittered (is there such a word?) computer to my Optima for basically this exact reason.

Most CCR divers around here were very experienced O/C divers and as such knew their OC consumption like the back of their hand.

Many CCR divers I have spoken to have noticed a large increase in their breathing rate when they return to OC.

It is great to really know that you really have enough bailout.

may be we should have pop ups on here with saying like "Have you practiced you bail out lately?"

nmanfield · 22nd May 2006, 08:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jason Blackwell)

Great minds must think alike!

Two weeks ago I fitted a Three mix / three transmittered (is there such a word?) computer to my Optima for basically this exact reason.

Most CCR divers around here were very experienced O/C divers and as such knew their OC consumption like the back of their hand.

Many CCR divers I have spoken to have noticed a large increase in their breathing rate when they return to OC.

It is great to really know that you really have enough bailout.

may be we should have pop ups on here with saying like "Have you practiced you bail out lately?"

I agree that this is very important to do. I have been very lucky in that I've never had a serious incident in which I've had to do a full bail out. However from those that I have spoken to who have had to, you can forget using your RMV values, as the gas goes VERY quick. IMHO the most important thing is to ensure not only more than enough gas for a dive but to consider other procedures / factors - do you really need to get off the loop? Is IWR a factor that could be taken into account?

Basically, I would consider my bailout strategy to include not only RMV but also, kit set up (FFM therefore poss IWR if conditions allow etc), surface cover, proximity to chamber etc. Just my 2 pennies worth. I may well be probably totally wrong but I'd rather get a good flaming than have to rethink from the comfort of a wheelchair or worse.

**nigelh** · 22nd May 2006, 12:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jason Blackwell)

Many CCR divers I have spoken to have noticed a large increase in their breathing rate when they return to OC.

And how.
A week's relax in the sun live-aboard.
Northern Red Sea wreck circuit so shallow as a bath.
Dig out the old BCD and chill out.

30L/min on the first dive and it only got better slowly.
"Most people are nervous if they haven't dived for a while" offered another passenger.
They gave me a 15L Ali while everybody else was on 12s.

I normally plan my bailout for 20L/min but I guess I ought to increase it. If I've just lost the rebreather I might handle the incident itself OK but dangling on a string doing OC deco knowing I've got a loop full of seawater is bound to be emotionally taxing. I do so hate big unexpected bills.

***EBT*** · 22nd May 2006, 20:33

Those of us who shuttle between OC and CC regularly dont suffer this one

***schford*** · 22nd May 2006, 21:28

In addition to bailing out to get your RMV it is also worth occasionally bailing out all the way to the surface to keep your skills up with regards to managing your loop all the way to the surface when on OC.

Is it a PITA to keep emptying the loop on the way up and if you were stressed and forgot it you could find yourself with a full loop rapidly propelling you to the surface......

How many litres are in large inspo lungs - thats a lot of positive bouyancy when full ;-)

E-man · 23rd May 2006, 00:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

Those of us who shuttle between OC and CC regularly dont suffer this one

Thats my solution

...it seems to help bunches

MHD · 23rd May 2006, 00:51

[quote=schford]In addition to bailing out to get your RMV it is also worth occasionally bailing out all the way to the surface to keep your skills up with regards to managing your loop all the way to the surface when on OC.

Is it a PITA to keep emptying the loop on the way up and if you were stressed and forgot it you could find yourself with a full loop rapidly propelling you to the surface......

quote]

Nicety of back mounted counter lungs, in this situation, just fill with dil and ignore, the confined maximum volume is only marginally greater than there working volume, so just let the OPV do it's job on ascent. One less thing to deal with. No changes to bouyancy during the ascent phase.

Matt

***schford*** · 23rd May 2006, 18:02

[quote=MHD]

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

In addition to bailing out to get your RMV it is also worth occasionally bailing out all the way to the surface to keep your skills up with regards to managing your loop all the way to the surface when on OC.

Is it a PITA to keep emptying the loop on the way up and if you were stressed and forgot it you could find yourself with a full loop rapidly propelling you to the surface......

quote]

Nicety of back mounted counter lungs, in this situation, just fill with dil and ignore, the confined maximum volume is only marginally greater than there working volume, so just let the OPV do it's job on ascent. One less thing to deal with. No changes to bouyancy during the ascent phase.

Matt

As long as you weight yourself for full counter lungs and not MLV (I guess they might be about the same?)

**nigelh** · 23rd May 2006, 18:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

As long as you weight yourself for full counter lungs and not MLV (I guess they might be about the same?)

So not like this you mean?

No names, no pack drill but was home via Coastguard Airways for the Dräger owner.

22nd May 2006, 03:53	#1 (permalink)
Skipbreather WAY past the barber pole Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 524	Do you carry a stage bottle? Well, for all those who carry a stage bottle…….. I FINALLY had the sun. moon, & stars align- as well had enough days off from flying– and got the boat into the water and took the Meg to a favorite Great Lakes wreck today. Dive buddy & self went thru an exercise that – just maybe - could be a good refresher for anyone who dives with a stage bottle on which they depend for deco and/ or bailout. We chose this particular wreck because its rail is level at about 30 m/ 100 ft. Prior to dive we substituted digital gas integrated computers for the lollipops. We recorded depth. Went to OC stage bailout. Swam the rail for the entire perimeter of the wreck (call it 200 ~ 250 m total). Recorded starting and finishing pressures & times. Did the math. Now have personal RMV values that are current for our present drag and stage configuration and, well, (Gawd, this hurts) age and physical condition. Ask yourself: “How long has it been since I did this to validate the values I use in my planning?”. ‘Nuff said. Also, for those very few following the homebuilt Cys sized radial scrubber evolution: put an hour on it in 5 deg. C water at said 30 M. WOB is- admittedly subjective- as near to nill as is measurable by the calibrated guerilla diver inhale. “Got Bailout?” Ken Last edited by Skipbreather : 22nd May 2006 at 13:50.
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22nd May 2006, 07:37	#2 (permalink)
Jason Blackwell Bloody Rebreathers! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima Dolphin Ray Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, AUSTRALIA Posts: 361	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? Great minds must think alike! Two weeks ago I fitted a Three mix / three transmittered (is there such a word?) computer to my Optima for basically this exact reason. Most CCR divers around here were very experienced O/C divers and as such knew their OC consumption like the back of their hand. Many CCR divers I have spoken to have noticed a large increase in their breathing rate when they return to OC. It is great to really know that you really have enough bailout. may be we should have pop ups on here with saying like "Have you practiced you bail out lately?" __________________ Jason Blackwell TDI Instructor Trainer #1358 Optima...Inspiration/Evolution...KISS...and what is next??? www.divedivedive.com.au OZTeK '09 March 2009 Sydney, Australia www.diveoztek.com.au
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22nd May 2006, 08:24	#3 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? Quote: (Originally Posted by Jason Blackwell) Great minds must think alike! Two weeks ago I fitted a Three mix / three transmittered (is there such a word?) computer to my Optima for basically this exact reason. Most CCR divers around here were very experienced O/C divers and as such knew their OC consumption like the back of their hand. Many CCR divers I have spoken to have noticed a large increase in their breathing rate when they return to OC. It is great to really know that you really have enough bailout. may be we should have pop ups on here with saying like "Have you practiced you bail out lately?" I agree that this is very important to do. I have been very lucky in that I've never had a serious incident in which I've had to do a full bail out. However from those that I have spoken to who have had to, you can forget using your RMV values, as the gas goes VERY quick. IMHO the most important thing is to ensure not only more than enough gas for a dive but to consider other procedures / factors - do you really need to get off the loop? Is IWR a factor that could be taken into account? Basically, I would consider my bailout strategy to include not only RMV but also, kit set up (FFM therefore poss IWR if conditions allow etc), surface cover, proximity to chamber etc. Just my 2 pennies worth. I may well be probably totally wrong but I'd rather get a good flaming than have to rethink from the comfort of a wheelchair or worse. __________________ Tub 'O Lard
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22nd May 2006, 12:51	#4 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 784	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? Quote: (Originally Posted by Jason Blackwell) Many CCR divers I have spoken to have noticed a large increase in their breathing rate when they return to OC. And how. A week's relax in the sun live-aboard. Northern Red Sea wreck circuit so shallow as a bath. Dig out the old BCD and chill out. 30L/min on the first dive and it only got better slowly. "Most people are nervous if they haven't dived for a while" offered another passenger. They gave me a 15L Ali while everybody else was on 12s. I normally plan my bailout for 20L/min but I guess I ought to increase it. If I've just lost the rebreather I might handle the incident itself OK but dangling on a string doing OC deco knowing I've got a loop full of seawater is bound to be emotionally taxing. I do so hate big unexpected bills. __________________ nigelh
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22nd May 2006, 20:33	#5 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,826	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? Those of us who shuttle between OC and CC regularly dont suffer this one __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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22nd May 2006, 21:28	#6 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,660	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? In addition to bailing out to get your RMV it is also worth occasionally bailing out all the way to the surface to keep your skills up with regards to managing your loop all the way to the surface when on OC. Is it a PITA to keep emptying the loop on the way up and if you were stressed and forgot it you could find yourself with a full loop rapidly propelling you to the surface...... How many litres are in large inspo lungs - thats a lot of positive bouyancy when full ;-) __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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23rd May 2006, 00:12	#7 (permalink)
E-man On the loop! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Titan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Eastern Coast ;) Posts: 212	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) Those of us who shuttle between OC and CC regularly dont suffer this one Thats my solution ...it seems to help bunches
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23rd May 2006, 00:51	#8 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 235	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? [quote=schford]In addition to bailing out to get your RMV it is also worth occasionally bailing out all the way to the surface to keep your skills up with regards to managing your loop all the way to the surface when on OC. Is it a PITA to keep emptying the loop on the way up and if you were stressed and forgot it you could find yourself with a full loop rapidly propelling you to the surface...... quote] Nicety of back mounted counter lungs, in this situation, just fill with dil and ignore, the confined maximum volume is only marginally greater than there working volume, so just let the OPV do it's job on ascent. One less thing to deal with. No changes to bouyancy during the ascent phase. Matt
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23rd May 2006, 18:02	#9 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,660	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? [quote=MHD] Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) In addition to bailing out to get your RMV it is also worth occasionally bailing out all the way to the surface to keep your skills up with regards to managing your loop all the way to the surface when on OC. Is it a PITA to keep emptying the loop on the way up and if you were stressed and forgot it you could find yourself with a full loop rapidly propelling you to the surface...... quote] Nicety of back mounted counter lungs, in this situation, just fill with dil and ignore, the confined maximum volume is only marginally greater than there working volume, so just let the OPV do it's job on ascent. One less thing to deal with. No changes to bouyancy during the ascent phase. Matt As long as you weight yourself for full counter lungs and not MLV (I guess they might be about the same?) __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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23rd May 2006, 18:48	#10 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 784	Re: Do you carry a stage bttle? Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) As long as you weight yourself for full counter lungs and not MLV (I guess they might be about the same?) So not like this you mean? No names, no pack drill but was home via Coastguard Airways for the Dräger owner. __________________ nigelh
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