Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers

Drmike · 6th May 2006, 14:52

Ive been thinking for a while now that it might be a good idea to develop some standard and universally accepted hand signals for Rebreather divers to signal issues/status of their units to their buddies.

For example:

-Bail out to OC (see below)
-Excess water in loop - partial flood
-Running semi-closed
-Scrubbing ability limited
- Manual running
- Period of Hypoxia
- Period of Hyperoxia

Personally if Im with a Rebreather buddy and they turn the dive I would like to be aware of the details of the problem so as to better be able to monitor them or be ready with the appropriate support.

For example I once came across a Rebreather diver who had bailed to OC. He was using a BOV. It didnt even register with me that there was exhaust bubbles coming out of his BOV. It took a few moments for him to get me to understand that he had bailed.

Another example would be in a cave and your leading out, buddys scrubber is breaking through, or he has some partial flood. He gives you an alarm signal but cant explain easily and quickly whats wrong. He starts running semiclosed but you dont realise beacuse he looks the same as before externaly - only the occasional exhaust bubbles giving it away. If he cant tell you that he has a limited scrubber you might not slow your pace for example or monitor him for CO2 narcosis.

Another example is your buddys solenoid sticks closed and he signals to you this fact (assuming there is a sign for it) now hes leading out and you can keep an eye on him to double check as an extra pair of eyes that he is injecting O2 regularly and not forgeting.

Buddy realises hes had a period of high PPO2 and fears he might have a tox. if he can signal that fear to you you can stay close to him ready to assist and try to keep his reg in his mouth if he convulses.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Or is it enough just to signal 'problem', 'turn dive'

Sutty · 6th May 2006, 15:40

Nice idea but difficult to achieve universal standardisation and recognition. Look at how few universally accepted signals there are in o/c diving despite a much longer history and higher user base, even some of them aren't well agreed!
An alternative is to stick with already standard systems:
1. Write it on a slate - assumes you have one to hand and the pencil hasn't broken again.
2. A sign-language spelling alphabet. The two-handed ones would be best suited for our purpose as they are clearer and avoid ambiguity with existing diving signals. This seems to limit it (for english) to BSL (British Sign Language). It is easy to learn and I have used it a few times with my buddy, the only thing it lacks is a "next word" sign.

alphabet.gif

***EBT*** · 6th May 2006, 15:53

"Hold" (closed fist) OR
"Slow down" (wavy palm downwards)

Then get the wetnotes out.

Last message I recall reading was "Wank. Loop flooding. Glug". The chap then bailled to OC, went with that for a bit until I waved a wetnote under his face saying "SCR mode". Since we were in the deep section at Ressel, it seemed reasonable to let him OC for a bit, to get his head happy again.

/Zak

shell-back · 6th May 2006, 15:56

.

Quote:

For example I once came across a Rebreather diver who had bailed to OC. He was using a BOV. It didnt even register with me that there was exhaust bubbles coming out of his BOV. It took a few moments for him to get me to understand that he had bailed

I have a signal for said issue , Both Hands in fists thumb inserted in the top hand ( close your hand over thumb of the hand making the Go UP signal )

OFF Loop ( Hands apart showing thumb )
On LOOP ( hands together still )

signal can be used as a question by repeting or letting the buddy know by making exagerated fists out in front of you and pulled apart far.

rogeringebo · 6th May 2006, 16:00

Could not resist

shell-back · 6th May 2006, 17:20

yep , Kinda think of it as making the dsv with both hands , broken apart off the loop Hell you know what I mean.

Thats the old signal when someone appears before you with less then there planned turn gas supply

U R usualy comes before that.

Danil · 6th May 2006, 18:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by rogeringebo)

Could not resist

my unofficial sign for: connect/disconect O2 Solenoid feed you ass...

jaap · 6th May 2006, 21:37

This old page came to mind reading this thread:

http://dg8fz.dyndns.org/~karl/dg8fz/...nd_Signals.htm

Scuttle · 6th May 2006, 23:07

Print some small cards up & laminate them with your list of examples or what ever , store them in your pocket, pull em out & flick through to the one required & show your buddy when the Sh#t happens after turning dive.
examples:
-Bail out to OC (see below)
-Excess water in loop - partial flood
-Running semi-closed
-Scrubbing ability limited
- Manual running
- Period of Hypoxia
- Period of Hyperoxia
Some instructors use this method on students doing courses for the surprise skills test at depth.
eg;
Smile ,you are supposed to be having fun

cedricverdier · 7th May 2006, 02:07

Hi Mike,

What do you think about the following signals:

-Running semi-closed: simply point out your nose with your finger when you exhale through the nose (maybe repeated twice)

-Scrubbing ability limited: the old out-of-breath signal. your two hands simulating a rapid mouvement of your lungs

- Manual running: simply point out your O2 manual injector with your finger when you manually inject some O2 with the other hand (maybe repeated twice)

- Period of Hypoxia/Hyperoxia: the usual "something wrong" signal followed by an "O" made with your 2 hands. (could work for any Oxygen related problem)

Cheers

6th May 2006, 14:52	#1 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,113	Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers Ive been thinking for a while now that it might be a good idea to develop some standard and universally accepted hand signals for Rebreather divers to signal issues/status of their units to their buddies. For example: -Bail out to OC (see below) -Excess water in loop - partial flood -Running semi-closed -Scrubbing ability limited - Manual running - Period of Hypoxia - Period of Hyperoxia Personally if Im with a Rebreather buddy and they turn the dive I would like to be aware of the details of the problem so as to better be able to monitor them or be ready with the appropriate support. For example I once came across a Rebreather diver who had bailed to OC. He was using a BOV. It didnt even register with me that there was exhaust bubbles coming out of his BOV. It took a few moments for him to get me to understand that he had bailed. Another example would be in a cave and your leading out, buddys scrubber is breaking through, or he has some partial flood. He gives you an alarm signal but cant explain easily and quickly whats wrong. He starts running semiclosed but you dont realise beacuse he looks the same as before externaly - only the occasional exhaust bubbles giving it away. If he cant tell you that he has a limited scrubber you might not slow your pace for example or monitor him for CO2 narcosis. Another example is your buddys solenoid sticks closed and he signals to you this fact (assuming there is a sign for it) now hes leading out and you can keep an eye on him to double check as an extra pair of eyes that he is injecting O2 regularly and not forgeting. Buddy realises hes had a period of high PPO2 and fears he might have a tox. if he can signal that fear to you you can stay close to him ready to assist and try to keep his reg in his mouth if he convulses. Anyone think this is a good idea? Or is it enough just to signal 'problem', 'turn dive' __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 6th May 2006 at 14:55.
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6th May 2006, 15:40	#2 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 763	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers Nice idea but difficult to achieve universal standardisation and recognition. Look at how few universally accepted signals there are in o/c diving despite a much longer history and higher user base, even some of them aren't well agreed! An alternative is to stick with already standard systems: 1. Write it on a slate - assumes you have one to hand and the pencil hasn't broken again. 2. A sign-language spelling alphabet. The two-handed ones would be best suited for our purpose as they are clearer and avoid ambiguity with existing diving signals. This seems to limit it (for english) to BSL (British Sign Language). It is easy to learn and I have used it a few times with my buddy, the only thing it lacks is a "next word" sign. alphabet.gif __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
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6th May 2006, 15:53	#3 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,836	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers "Hold" (closed fist) OR "Slow down" (wavy palm downwards) Then get the wetnotes out. Last message I recall reading was "Wank. Loop flooding. Glug". The chap then bailled to OC, went with that for a bit until I waved a wetnote under his face saying "SCR mode". Since we were in the deep section at Ressel, it seemed reasonable to let him OC for a bit, to get his head happy again. /Zak __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers Last edited by EBT : 6th May 2006 at 17:26.
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6th May 2006, 15:56	#4 (permalink)
shell-back I do all my own stunts Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: middle of US Posts: 481	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers . Quote: For example I once came across a Rebreather diver who had bailed to OC. He was using a BOV. It didnt even register with me that there was exhaust bubbles coming out of his BOV. It took a few moments for him to get me to understand that he had bailed I have a signal for said issue , Both Hands in fists thumb inserted in the top hand ( close your hand over thumb of the hand making the Go UP signal ) OFF Loop ( Hands apart showing thumb ) On LOOP ( hands together still ) signal can be used as a question by repeting or letting the buddy know by making exagerated fists out in front of you and pulled apart far. __________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge. ----Daniel Boorstin Billy Beal SDITDI IT #3507 Rebreather World FIGJAM commitee member
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6th May 2006, 17:20	#6 (permalink)
shell-back I do all my own stunts Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: middle of US Posts: 481	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers yep , Kinda think of it as making the dsv with both hands , broken apart off the loop Hell you know what I mean. Thats the old signal when someone appears before you with less then there planned turn gas supply U R usualy comes before that. __________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge. ----Daniel Boorstin Billy Beal SDITDI IT #3507 Rebreather World FIGJAM commitee member Last edited by shell-back : 6th May 2006 at 17:25.
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6th May 2006, 18:22	#7 (permalink)
Danil Meg Diver Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Karlstad, Sweden Posts: 108	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers Quote: (Originally Posted by rogeringebo) Could not resist my unofficial sign for: connect/disconect O2 Solenoid feed you ass... __________________ -------------------- Dan Nilsson, Meg 67
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6th May 2006, 21:37	#8 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 438	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers This old page came to mind reading this thread: http://dg8fz.dyndns.org/~karl/dg8fz/...nd_Signals.htm
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6th May 2006, 23:07	#9 (permalink)
Scuttle 1 Grumpy ole skipper Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jan Juc, Vic, Australia Posts: 239	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers Print some small cards up & laminate them with your list of examples or what ever , store them in your pocket, pull em out & flick through to the one required & show your buddy when the Sh#t happens after turning dive. examples: -Bail out to OC (see below) -Excess water in loop - partial flood -Running semi-closed -Scrubbing ability limited - Manual running - Period of Hypoxia - Period of Hyperoxia Some instructors use this method on students doing courses for the surprise skills test at depth. eg; Smile ,you are supposed to be having fun
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7th May 2006, 02:07	#10 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 486	Re: Development of hand signals for Rebreather divers Hi Mike, What do you think about the following signals: -Running semi-closed: simply point out your nose with your finger when you exhale through the nose (maybe repeated twice) -Scrubbing ability limited: the old out-of-breath signal. your two hands simulating a rapid mouvement of your lungs - Manual running: simply point out your O2 manual injector with your finger when you manually inject some O2 with the other hand (maybe repeated twice) - Period of Hypoxia/Hyperoxia: the usual "something wrong" signal followed by an "O" made with your 2 hands. (could work for any Oxygen related problem) Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
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