CC use during OC Open Water classes

Nad · 31st March 2006, 12:36

Hi all,
Just curious to know if someone (instructors) dive CC during OC openwater classes.

I think after all the confined water skills done, and if you have enough bailout or emergency for the student, with a separated regulator, it won't be a big deal.
What do you guys think and why?

Nad

decoweenie · 31st March 2006, 12:58

Do you mean OW class as in the first class to learn how to dive, or did you mean non-confined OC class ?

If it is the first class, then I am confused since one of the choices is "advanced coure".

Regardless, I have a question...

How do you demonstrate the skill effectively when you are not using the same equipment as the student ?

For example (and assuming you didn't mean OW as the beginner class), take twin set valve shut-down skill. IMHO, nothing reassures the student more than seeing the instructor actually demonstrates the skill at the level he wants the student to do.

**nigelh** · 31st March 2006, 13:03

BSAC restrict the instructor to OC at entry level and then progressively ease up.
http://www.bsac.org/techserv/rrc/rtrain.htm

Nick uk. · 31st March 2006, 13:10

I allways use the same configuration as my students.

Scuba_Vixen · 31st March 2006, 13:18

As I read the question, it looked like he might have originally meant to limit it to the "basic open water" cert class, but the last choice in the poll indicates that he 's leaving it open to all open water courses instruction.

At any rate, I'm with Phi on the instructor using the same equipment as the student. ....

It gives the student confidence that this is the right gear ....

It gives the best example when the instructor demonstrates the skill so that the student can see exactly how it's done in the gear he has on .....

I would expect the instructor for a Mod1 'breather course to use the same unit as the students as well, .. for the same reasons.

Darlene

Nad · 31st March 2006, 13:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Do you mean OW class as in the first class to learn how to dive, or did you mean non-confined OC class ?

Regardless, I have a question...

How do you demonstrate the skill effectively when you are not using the same equipment as the student ?

For example (and assuming you didn't mean OW as the beginner class), take twin set valve shut-down skill. IMHO, nothing reassures the student more than seeing the instructor actually demonstrates the skill at the level he wants the student to do.

Actually the question is confusing, sorry.

I mean Advaced courses, so starting from Adv.Eanx or equivalent and all the skills already done and demostrated.

Nad

O.C.Diver · 31st March 2006, 13:37

Students should be able to copy their instructor regarding equipment techniques. This requires similar gear configuration. An instructor will have plenty of time to dazzle his / her students with their expensive toy after the class is over. Let's not try to distract and confuse them during class.

Ted

sven · 31st March 2006, 13:39

With PADI, the General Standards and Procedures/Equipment Standards stipulate that students, assistants and instructors must have ... 1b) compressed gas cylinder and valve, 1c) BDC, 1d) regulator and alternate air source.

If you go by the letter, you may be able to argue that this does not prohibit using a Rebreather. But the intent behind these standards is clear and RBs don't fit the bill here.

As others have mentioned, it helps the teaching to have gear and configuration as close as possible to what your students have. This gives them confidence that they are well equipped and simplifies the teaching/learning greatly.

For me this means, that I would never use the Rebreather for any PADI OC course that I teach. The only freedom I take is the drysuit - I am a wuss after all ...

John Rawlings · 31st March 2006, 14:58

I believe that the instructor should be using the same type equipment as the students, whether the training is initial OR advanced levels. Doing so inspires confidence in the student regarding the equipment he/she is using and the techniques involved.

Just my $0.02!

- John

Explorer · 31st March 2006, 15:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by John Rawlings)

I believe that the instructor should be using the same type equipment as the students, whether the training is initial OR advanced levels. Doing so inspires confidence in the student regarding the equipment he/she is using and the techniques involved.

Ditto here also John. I agree.

SDI also says NO when teaching students at the open water level. Just check into it last week because I was wondering also.

View Poll Results: Teaching OC Open Water with CC
Always	2	4.26%
Sometime	7	14.89%
Never	30	63.83%
Just during Advanced courses	8	17.02%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

31st March 2006, 12:36	#1 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 940	CC use during OC Open Water classes Hi all, Just curious to know if someone (instructors) dive CC during OC openwater classes. I think after all the confined water skills done, and if you have enough bailout or emergency for the student, with a separated regulator, it won't be a big deal. What do you guys think and why? Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
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31st March 2006, 12:58	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes Do you mean OW class as in the first class to learn how to dive, or did you mean non-confined OC class ? If it is the first class, then I am confused since one of the choices is "advanced coure". Regardless, I have a question... How do you demonstrate the skill effectively when you are not using the same equipment as the student ? For example (and assuming you didn't mean OW as the beginner class), take twin set valve shut-down skill. IMHO, nothing reassures the student more than seeing the instructor actually demonstrates the skill at the level he wants the student to do.
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31st March 2006, 13:03	#3 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 792	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes BSAC restrict the instructor to OC at entry level and then progressively ease up. http://www.bsac.org/techserv/rrc/rtrain.htm __________________ nigelh
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31st March 2006, 13:10	#4 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes I allways use the same configuration as my students. __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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31st March 2006, 13:18	#5 (permalink)
Scuba_Vixen e/mCCR Dolphin Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: St. Croix USVI Posts: 557	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes As I read the question, it looked like he might have originally meant to limit it to the "basic open water" cert class, but the last choice in the poll indicates that he 's leaving it open to all open water courses instruction. At any rate, I'm with Phi on the instructor using the same equipment as the student. .... It gives the student confidence that this is the right gear .... It gives the best example when the instructor demonstrates the skill so that the student can see exactly how it's done in the gear he has on ..... I would expect the instructor for a Mod1 'breather course to use the same unit as the students as well, .. for the same reasons. Darlene
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31st March 2006, 13:27	#6 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 940	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Do you mean OW class as in the first class to learn how to dive, or did you mean non-confined OC class ? Regardless, I have a question... How do you demonstrate the skill effectively when you are not using the same equipment as the student ? For example (and assuming you didn't mean OW as the beginner class), take twin set valve shut-down skill. IMHO, nothing reassures the student more than seeing the instructor actually demonstrates the skill at the level he wants the student to do. Actually the question is confusing, sorry. I mean Advaced courses, so starting from Adv.Eanx or equivalent and all the skills already done and demostrated. Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
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31st March 2006, 13:37	#7 (permalink)
O.C.Diver Helium Addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Salisbury MD USA Summers; Wandering Florida Winters Posts: 213	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes Students should be able to copy their instructor regarding equipment techniques. This requires similar gear configuration. An instructor will have plenty of time to dazzle his / her students with their expensive toy after the class is over. Let's not try to distract and confuse them during class. Ted __________________ Consider this my opinion.......sometimes I'm even right, but remember.........YMMV. Ted Green Charter Boat "OC Diver" http://www.ocdiver.com
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31st March 2006, 13:39	#8 (permalink)
sven Blogs Admin / Forum Mod Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 574	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes With PADI, the General Standards and Procedures/Equipment Standards stipulate that students, assistants and instructors must have ... 1b) compressed gas cylinder and valve, 1c) BDC, 1d) regulator and alternate air source. If you go by the letter, you may be able to argue that this does not prohibit using a Rebreather. But the intent behind these standards is clear and RBs don't fit the bill here. As others have mentioned, it helps the teaching to have gear and configuration as close as possible to what your students have. This gives them confidence that they are well equipped and simplifies the teaching/learning greatly. For me this means, that I would never use the Rebreather for any PADI OC course that I teach. The only freedom I take is the drysuit - I am a wuss after all ... __________________ Regards, Sven [SIZE=1]The Sydney Project website: [URL]http://www.sydneyproject.com[/URL] My Blog: [URL]http://sven.rebreatherworld.com[/URL] "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain[/SIZE]
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31st March 2006, 14:58	#9 (permalink)
John Rawlings New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 90	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes I believe that the instructor should be using the same type equipment as the students, whether the training is initial OR advanced levels. Doing so inspires confidence in the student regarding the equipment he/she is using and the techniques involved. Just my $0.02! - John
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31st March 2006, 15:28	#10 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 754	Re: CC use during OC Open Water classes Quote: (Originally Posted by John Rawlings) I believe that the instructor should be using the same type equipment as the students, whether the training is initial OR advanced levels. Doing so inspires confidence in the student regarding the equipment he/she is using and the techniques involved. Ditto here also John. I agree. SDI also says NO when teaching students at the open water level. Just check into it last week because I was wondering also. __________________ TRAIN WRECKED.....
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