Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet

Philippe GERIN · 10th April 2006, 16:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

Doesn't it leave about a three inch portion of your forearm pretty much bare to the touch the inside walls of the trilam, leaving you open to chilling of the extremity?

1) Only about 2"
2) I always wear a long sleeve base layer
3) It's true when you were the undies around because the sleeve comes down down around your wrist. But in the drysuit this part folds/wrickles up your forearm and your wrist seal takes that space on your wrist.
So no, not a problem. Of course, Of course it's preferable to not pull on that part when doffing the undies even though it's still tough.

Oh, I forgot to mention: for the high range of your temp (20-26°c) I tried with succes Bare comfort extreme undies: laminated fleece + Lycra. Never tried it in a flooded suit though. But it's a very snug fit, same as a tropical skin neo. AFAIK I used it as such in 27°c water and it kept me good after some 2 hour dives. But what wouldn't in 27°C water, huh?
Best
Philippe

mothball · 11th April 2006, 01:14

I dive the Bare Nex-Gen drysuit with the T-100 thinsulate undies in Vortex Springs (FL) quite a bit and have had that 68 deg water rush down my neck seal a few times. As long as I quit wrenching my neck back and forth for a few minutes my body can warm the water up pretty good and I stay toasty. I have on one occasion had water flood down into my legs at the beginning of an hour long dive and still did OK (especially since I'm a cold body). Honestly I think the drysuit material getting caught under my BCD is way more restrictive than the T-100 undy.
I used to wear the thinsulate liner in my field jacket when I was in the military and my (especially at that time) slight frame would be able to warm up a soaking wet jacket and liner within a minute or so in 35-50 deg weather. I didn't find it at all restrictive and I found it could be balled up pretty small so it wouldn't take up so much room in an ALICE pack.
One thing I remember about Thinsulate though is, that it is not suppose to be washed with regular laundry detergent because it "screws up" the insulating properties of the material. I wash my T-100 undy in white vinegar by itself and have noticed no probs especially in the insulation properties.
I can't speak of flectalon at all. I don't know if it's new or just off of my radar, but thinsulate has always been a light weight and warm material for me to don in the military or in diving as long I took care of it, it took care of me. Hope this helps. Blue Water wishes. Semper Fi Dave

Terry · 11th April 2006, 13:52

On a related subject -

Two weeks ago I was at DUI Demo Day in Pelham Alabama diving in a 57 F degree quarry. (To those across the pond, thats chilly but not too cold) Well, now I am going to buy a TLS350. I tried on a size Large with DUI 400 gram and found it quite warm in the water - but too difficut to dive because the high loft kept me bouyant around my legs and uncomfortably bouyant all around it was just plain hard to dive. Also I felt quite contstricted.

I then dove an X-Large TLS350 with DUI 150 weight. It was easier to dive, an a bit chillier, but I got used to it in a few minutes and soon forgot that it was sort of cold. Then the suit leaked - probably in through the exhaust valve. I got even chillier - but is was certainly not too bad. I was not shivering, just cold skinned around my shoulder and chest and soon even lower.

The question is - I am sized between an Large and a X-Large. I probably will not dive the 400 weight - more likely just 100 or possibly 200 weight in warmer tropical waters.

I am thinking of ordering the size XL becuase I dont want to be constricted - the question is: what is the downside of diving a drysuit that may be a bit too big?
(As opposed to buying one that maybe a shade tight)

Philippe GERIN · 11th April 2006, 15:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry)

On a related subject -
I am thinking of ordering the size XL becuase I dont want to be constricted - the question is: what is the downside of diving a drysuit that may be a bit too big?
(As opposed to buying one that maybe a shade tight)

Wait till after June, They say on theiur website that they are coming with "intermediate" stock sizes. in your case, a L tall or short or a XL tall or short. kinda like Diverite with the "husky" cut of their 905. Then you'll find your fit without the expense of a custom cut suit.
Give them a call @ customer service and ask.
Best
Philippe

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 11th April 2006, 16:42

There is quite a bit of difference in the thermals you were using. DUI only makes 200 and 400 gram Thinsulate suits (unless something recently changed). The 150 stuff was probably Polartec or something like that. So, it would not be an "apples to apples" comparison to just go by the weight of insulation. The materials have different characteristics, and differing abilities to keep you warm if wet. Check into this if this is part of the consideration in making your purchase.

Terry · 13th April 2006, 18:19

hey Gang -

I just received the ND Flectalon undergarment. Here is my 2$:
It seems well made, the seams are all whipped from the inside. There is a fleece lining and a stretech underarm shoulder. The outer shell is a nylon type material. The insulation is a 'scrunch' metallic material, I guess it's like a foil of some type that is woven into the insulative fabric, this is from what I can see on the edges.
There is no netting down at the cuffs - the arm material goes right to the wrist with out the netting - just like you'd expect.

I have not dove it yet - BUT - it's pretty heavy weight. I'd say it is comparable to a DUI 200 weight.
IMHO - I'd say it is too heavy to bring to a tropical environment - Maybe for those who dont mind being a bit bouyant or who get really cold easily, or who are used to drysuiting with high loft undergarments.
For me - I was looking / hoping for a one piece unisuit that is really light. For me, this garment seems more appropriate to 55-65 degree water and or longer dive times.
I am looking for something in the 60 - 72 range.
I am going to keep it, but I am still looking for a lightweight undergarment for my TLS350 in the southern areas.
Perhaps the DUI 100 Superstretch.

I will keep this and replace my DUI 400 suit with it.

Anyone looking for a like-new DUI 400 suit?

Terry

tomhanaway · 13th April 2006, 19:17

Terry,
What weight flectalon did you get. Their website talks in terms of 100, 200 and 300 weight.
Are you saying that the 100 weight is as you described below??
I'm looking for something for southern diving also.

Tom Hanaway
Boynton Beach, FL

Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry)

hey Gang -

I just received the ND Flectalon undergarment. Here is my 2$:
It seems well made, the seams are all whipped from the inside. There is a fleece lining and a stretech underarm shoulder. The outer shell is a nylon type material. The insulation is a 'scrunch' metallic material, I guess it's like a foil of some type that is woven into the insulative fabric, this is from what I can see on the edges.
There is no netting down at the cuffs - the arm material goes right to the wrist with out the netting - just like you'd expect.

I have not dove it yet - BUT - it's pretty heavy weight. I'd say it is comparable to a DUI 200 weight.
IMHO - I'd say it is too heavy to bring to a tropical environment - Maybe for those who dont mind being a bit bouyant or who get really cold easily, or who are used to drysuiting with high loft undergarments.
For me - I was looking / hoping for a one piece unisuit that is really light. For me, this garment seems more appropriate to 55-65 degree water and or longer dive times.
I am looking for something in the 60 - 72 range.
I am going to keep it, but I am still looking for a lightweight undergarment for my TLS350 in the southern areas.
Perhaps the DUI 100 Superstretch.

I will keep this and replace my DUI 400 suit with it.

Anyone looking for a like-new DUI 400 suit?

Terry

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 14th April 2006, 00:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry)

I have not dove it yet - BUT - it's pretty heavy weight. I'd say it is comparable to a DUI 200 weight.

Do you mean in terms of thickness, bulk and inability to move about? I am not sure if you mean this or just in terms of warmth. Perhaps it is just thicker fleece sandwiched over the Flectalon. If that is the case, it is likely that the fleece will compress a lot as soon as you leave the surface, and it won't require a lot of lead.

I actually have a DUI 200 gram Thinsulate jumpsuit. It's pretty thick, and that is exactly what I am trying to avoid.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry)

I will keep this and replace my DUI 400 suit with it.

Anyone looking for a like-new DUI 400 suit?

Terry

Me first! Me first! I have an unused, still in the plastic 400, and I have a 200 with about ten dives on it. As soon as I find the right replacement, they are gone!

The only other alternative is the Diving Concepts 100 gram Thinsulate thermals. However, their prices start at over $500, and run closer to $700 for custom. Yes, that's just for the underwear!

Any other ideas? Again, PLEASE DON'T TRY TO CONVINCE ME TO GET A FLEECE SUIT! Someone I (sort of) know just had to spend just a relatively short deco with only a moderately wet set of thermals (leaking inflator valve) in 75F waster. He, too, is getting rid of his fleece undies after this experience, and he is now looking for something light in a Thinsulate. Again, PLEASE DON'T TELL ME ABOUT FLEECE; IT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. (Did I mention about not telling me about your happiness with fleece?

)

***EBT*** · 14th April 2006, 00:08

What about polartec then?

fourth element/xerotherm do them.....

Terry · 16th April 2006, 01:52

Tom -

Yes thats the Flectalon 100. It's too heavy to bring to South Florida or the Keys or on a Caribbean live aboard. It probably would be okay for a cave diver, but, I want to be light and I dont mind too much I'm a bit chilly.

Also, DUI makes a Superstretch product, it's fleece, and I think that I what I like. - I just ordered a 150 weight garment for about $100 from my LDS.
(we have two threads going on here)

Anyone want a great deal on DUI 400 Thinsulate? Mens large.??

10th April 2006, 16:24	#21 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 636	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) Doesn't it leave about a three inch portion of your forearm pretty much bare to the touch the inside walls of the trilam, leaving you open to chilling of the extremity? 1) Only about 2" 2) I always wear a long sleeve base layer 3) It's true when you were the undies around because the sleeve comes down down around your wrist. But in the drysuit this part folds/wrickles up your forearm and your wrist seal takes that space on your wrist. So no, not a problem. Of course, Of course it's preferable to not pull on that part when doffing the undies even though it's still tough. Oh, I forgot to mention: for the high range of your temp (20-26°c) I tried with succes Bare comfort extreme undies: laminated fleece + Lycra. Never tried it in a flooded suit though. But it's a very snug fit, same as a tropical skin neo. AFAIK I used it as such in 27°c water and it kept me good after some 2 hour dives. But what wouldn't in 27°C water, huh? Best Philippe Last edited by Philippe GERIN : 10th April 2006 at 16:36.
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11th April 2006, 01:14	#22 (permalink)
mothball New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Louisiana, USA Posts: 62	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet I dive the Bare Nex-Gen drysuit with the T-100 thinsulate undies in Vortex Springs (FL) quite a bit and have had that 68 deg water rush down my neck seal a few times. As long as I quit wrenching my neck back and forth for a few minutes my body can warm the water up pretty good and I stay toasty. I have on one occasion had water flood down into my legs at the beginning of an hour long dive and still did OK (especially since I'm a cold body). Honestly I think the drysuit material getting caught under my BCD is way more restrictive than the T-100 undy. I used to wear the thinsulate liner in my field jacket when I was in the military and my (especially at that time) slight frame would be able to warm up a soaking wet jacket and liner within a minute or so in 35-50 deg weather. I didn't find it at all restrictive and I found it could be balled up pretty small so it wouldn't take up so much room in an ALICE pack. One thing I remember about Thinsulate though is, that it is not suppose to be washed with regular laundry detergent because it "screws up" the insulating properties of the material. I wash my T-100 undy in white vinegar by itself and have noticed no probs especially in the insulation properties. I can't speak of flectalon at all. I don't know if it's new or just off of my radar, but thinsulate has always been a light weight and warm material for me to don in the military or in diving as long I took care of it, it took care of me. Hope this helps. Blue Water wishes. Semper Fi Dave __________________ Do NOT die STUPID Ignorance WILL get you killed I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive safely at Death
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11th April 2006, 13:52	#23 (permalink)
Terry New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 92	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet On a related subject - Two weeks ago I was at DUI Demo Day in Pelham Alabama diving in a 57 F degree quarry. (To those across the pond, thats chilly but not too cold) Well, now I am going to buy a TLS350. I tried on a size Large with DUI 400 gram and found it quite warm in the water - but too difficut to dive because the high loft kept me bouyant around my legs and uncomfortably bouyant all around it was just plain hard to dive. Also I felt quite contstricted. I then dove an X-Large TLS350 with DUI 150 weight. It was easier to dive, an a bit chillier, but I got used to it in a few minutes and soon forgot that it was sort of cold. Then the suit leaked - probably in through the exhaust valve. I got even chillier - but is was certainly not too bad. I was not shivering, just cold skinned around my shoulder and chest and soon even lower. The question is - I am sized between an Large and a X-Large. I probably will not dive the 400 weight - more likely just 100 or possibly 200 weight in warmer tropical waters. I am thinking of ordering the size XL becuase I dont want to be constricted - the question is: what is the downside of diving a drysuit that may be a bit too big? (As opposed to buying one that maybe a shade tight)
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11th April 2006, 15:33	#24 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 636	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry) On a related subject - I am thinking of ordering the size XL becuase I dont want to be constricted - the question is: what is the downside of diving a drysuit that may be a bit too big? (As opposed to buying one that maybe a shade tight) Wait till after June, They say on theiur website that they are coming with "intermediate" stock sizes. in your case, a L tall or short or a XL tall or short. kinda like Diverite with the "husky" cut of their 905. Then you'll find your fit without the expense of a custom cut suit. Give them a call @ customer service and ask. Best Philippe Last edited by Philippe GERIN : 11th April 2006 at 15:37.
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11th April 2006, 16:42	#25 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,132	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet There is quite a bit of difference in the thermals you were using. DUI only makes 200 and 400 gram Thinsulate suits (unless something recently changed). The 150 stuff was probably Polartec or something like that. So, it would not be an "apples to apples" comparison to just go by the weight of insulation. The materials have different characteristics, and differing abilities to keep you warm if wet. Check into this if this is part of the consideration in making your purchase. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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13th April 2006, 18:19	#26 (permalink)
Terry New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 92	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet hey Gang - I just received the ND Flectalon undergarment. Here is my 2$: It seems well made, the seams are all whipped from the inside. There is a fleece lining and a stretech underarm shoulder. The outer shell is a nylon type material. The insulation is a 'scrunch' metallic material, I guess it's like a foil of some type that is woven into the insulative fabric, this is from what I can see on the edges. There is no netting down at the cuffs - the arm material goes right to the wrist with out the netting - just like you'd expect. I have not dove it yet - BUT - it's pretty heavy weight. I'd say it is comparable to a DUI 200 weight. IMHO - I'd say it is too heavy to bring to a tropical environment - Maybe for those who dont mind being a bit bouyant or who get really cold easily, or who are used to drysuiting with high loft undergarments. For me - I was looking / hoping for a one piece unisuit that is really light. For me, this garment seems more appropriate to 55-65 degree water and or longer dive times. I am looking for something in the 60 - 72 range. I am going to keep it, but I am still looking for a lightweight undergarment for my TLS350 in the southern areas. Perhaps the DUI 100 Superstretch. I will keep this and replace my DUI 400 suit with it. Anyone looking for a like-new DUI 400 suit? Terry
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13th April 2006, 19:17	#27 (permalink)
tomhanaway New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: May 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 52	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet Terry, What weight flectalon did you get. Their website talks in terms of 100, 200 and 300 weight. Are you saying that the 100 weight is as you described below?? I'm looking for something for southern diving also. Tom Hanaway Boynton Beach, FL Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry) hey Gang - I just received the ND Flectalon undergarment. Here is my 2$: It seems well made, the seams are all whipped from the inside. There is a fleece lining and a stretech underarm shoulder. The outer shell is a nylon type material. The insulation is a 'scrunch' metallic material, I guess it's like a foil of some type that is woven into the insulative fabric, this is from what I can see on the edges. There is no netting down at the cuffs - the arm material goes right to the wrist with out the netting - just like you'd expect. I have not dove it yet - BUT - it's pretty heavy weight. I'd say it is comparable to a DUI 200 weight. IMHO - I'd say it is too heavy to bring to a tropical environment - Maybe for those who dont mind being a bit bouyant or who get really cold easily, or who are used to drysuiting with high loft undergarments. For me - I was looking / hoping for a one piece unisuit that is really light. For me, this garment seems more appropriate to 55-65 degree water and or longer dive times. I am looking for something in the 60 - 72 range. I am going to keep it, but I am still looking for a lightweight undergarment for my TLS350 in the southern areas. Perhaps the DUI 100 Superstretch. I will keep this and replace my DUI 400 suit with it. Anyone looking for a like-new DUI 400 suit? Terry
(Offline)

14th April 2006, 00:04	#28 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,132	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry) I have not dove it yet - BUT - it's pretty heavy weight. I'd say it is comparable to a DUI 200 weight. Do you mean in terms of thickness, bulk and inability to move about? I am not sure if you mean this or just in terms of warmth. Perhaps it is just thicker fleece sandwiched over the Flectalon. If that is the case, it is likely that the fleece will compress a lot as soon as you leave the surface, and it won't require a lot of lead. I actually have a DUI 200 gram Thinsulate jumpsuit. It's pretty thick, and that is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Quote: (Originally Posted by Terry) I will keep this and replace my DUI 400 suit with it. Anyone looking for a like-new DUI 400 suit? Terry Me first! Me first! I have an unused, still in the plastic 400, and I have a 200 with about ten dives on it. As soon as I find the right replacement, they are gone! The only other alternative is the Diving Concepts 100 gram Thinsulate thermals. However, their prices start at over $500, and run closer to $700 for custom. Yes, that's just for the underwear! Any other ideas? Again, PLEASE DON'T TRY TO CONVINCE ME TO GET A FLEECE SUIT! Someone I (sort of) know just had to spend just a relatively short deco with only a moderately wet set of thermals (leaking inflator valve) in 75F waster. He, too, is getting rid of his fleece undies after this experience, and he is now looking for something light in a Thinsulate. Again, PLEASE DON'T TELL ME ABOUT FLEECE; IT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. (Did I mention about not telling me about your happiness with fleece? ) __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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14th April 2006, 00:08	#29 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,970	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet What about polartec then? fourth element/xerotherm do them..... __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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16th April 2006, 01:52	#30 (permalink)
Terry New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 92	Re: Flectalon versus Thinsulate When Wet Tom - Yes thats the Flectalon 100. It's too heavy to bring to South Florida or the Keys or on a Caribbean live aboard. It probably would be okay for a cave diver, but, I want to be light and I dont mind too much I'm a bit chilly. Also, DUI makes a Superstretch product, it's fleece, and I think that I what I like. - I just ordered a 150 weight garment for about $100 from my LDS. (we have two threads going on here) Anyone want a great deal on DUI 400 Thinsulate? Mens large.??
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