bent using a rebreather?

cedricverdier · 23rd March 2006, 15:50

Hi all,

A poll about rebreather divers being bent while diving with their rebreather.
- Type of DCS?
- Type of Mix?
- predisposing factors?
- circumstances?

I know it's always a very sensitive topics and many divers don't like to publicly admit they have been bent. So stay anonymous if you want, but at least answer the questions in the poll (several answers allowed).

And to keep the figures realistic, please also answer even if you've never been bent (lucky you!!!)

Cheers

Mark Chase · 23rd March 2006, 16:01

Sub clinical symptoms diving 18/45 trimix and decoing out on a 1.3 set point at 6m prior to a drop to 0.7 set point and a 5min ascent to the surface. No stops missed normal modified VR3 profile with VPM stile ascent to VR3 shallow stop and clearing VR3 at 6m

Aches pains and extremely sleepy after the dives. Symptoms lasted overnight. No Hyperbaric treatment sought but ambient 02 used next day.

This happened three times I put the first one down to being knackered but there was no excuse for the second or third incident. I switched to pure 02 flush at 6m for the final 20mins of deco with fresh gas every 5mins and I never had the problem again. Unfortunately doing this has put my CNS way over 100 on a couple of occasions.

ATB

Mark Chase

**wedivebc** · 23rd March 2006, 16:54

I wish some of the other positive responses chimed in here. C'mon guys no shame, we're all friends.

Thanks Mark

The Purist · 23rd March 2006, 17:07

Pain only DCS in my leg after 30 mins at 65ish IIRC - using 10/50 dil, 10/90 GF tables, 1.2 PO2 on bottom. No predisposing factors I knew of - symptoms noticed about 3 hrs post dive, quick squeeze in the pot and it was sorted. Had recently dropped from 20/80 to 10/90 GFs so upped the deco again after that.

decowarrior · 23rd March 2006, 18:15

115m for 24 mins, 8 degrees water temp 4.5 hour run time, vpm b expedition table used

suit flood at 50m on the way back up, 6/72 bottom gas 1.3 setpoint switch to20/30 at 45m and a po2 rise to 1.5 until 6m where pure o2 was used and 20/30 for air breaks every 12 mins,

very cold by that point shaking and showing symptoms sat out all planned deco even thoughi was hypothermic which in hind sight may have not have been a wise course of action although at the time i thought i was doing the right thing

climbed the ladder unaided unclipped stages walked across the boat to sit down and dekit terrible burning pain and ringing in my ears as i unclipped my harness and lifted the lungs over my shoulder it was like someoine lifting a screen infront of my eyes slowly rising up until i blacked out and my mate caught me before i fell and made me lie down and did the o2 for a while symptoms completly went with just a general tired feeling until approx ttillhree hours later with a pins and needles s breathing o2 all the time as the boat was steaming back in,

as the boat tied up a sharp pain in both knees started which within five mins had progressed to a complete numbness in both legs and a loss of ability to stand or focus, the doc was on site in her car in a matter of mins as there were no ambulances available for the short journey which was thirty seconds walk!! but i couldnt walk so it was a necessity had full tests failed all of them in a real state by this point body in hypothermic shock severly dehydrated despite takin a litre of drink on the dive unable to locate a vein for the saline drip to get fluid in this continued for ages my arm was like a pin cushion, evertually got the drip in priceeded to whach saline in an atempt to rehydrate but sadly had missed and not realised and had the fluid going into tissue blown down to 18m for 9 hours on pure o2 had ox tox dehydartion burning lungs all usuall symptoms twitching started still great pain, pain subsided when raised to 9m after tenth or elevnth hour no residual symptoms walked out of the pot pain and symptom free due to the nature of incident medivaced to the commercial diving facility in aberdeen for further monitoring incase further treatment so they could use heliox as a treatment and be mre comfortable

six months later checked for pfo which was negative and no residual symptoms and all cleared to gas dive agaoin with no restricions

sorry for the long write up dont think i have missed anything

***caveseeker7*** · 23rd March 2006, 18:17

It's not long, it's thorough.

(written with a Rebreather state of mind

)

J. V. · 23rd March 2006, 19:14

Two bend in right shoulder.

First was in Mediterranea after a dive around 80 m for 25 min, descent was a hard work because of current, hard work on the wreck too (cause our boat anchor was deep in the wreck - PpO2 fall around 0.5 at 80 m), and, last but not least, mistake in computer (HSE-O) programation, diluant breathed tmx 10/70, diluant programed 14/50. Pain came just some minutes after surfacing (I was always in the water). Treated by IWR, one hour O2 (open circuit) betwen 9 m and surface, and the days after an other hour O2 (CCR) betwen 6 and surface.

Second ten month after in tropical water, bend at the same place in the same shoulder. No spécial work, no program mistake, deco longer than HSE say (my buddy had a VR3). No special reason for bend, except it was an expedition with two dive by day. It was the second dive of the second day, around 90 m with diluant tmx 10/60 Two or three hours after the dive, pain come in right shoulder. Treated by IWR, 90 min O2 (CCR) between 9 m and surface.

Since this last pain, I use heliox as diluant and it seams to be better.

pchanning · 23rd March 2006, 20:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by decowarrior)

115m for 24 mins, 8 degrees water temp 4.5 hour run time, vpm b expedition table used

suit flood at 50m on the way back up, 6/72 bottom gas 1.3 setpoint switch to20/30 at 45m and a po2 rise to 1.5 until 6m where pure o2 was used and 20/30 for air breaks every 12 mins,

very cold by that point shaking and showing symptoms sat out all planned deco even thoughi was hypothermic which in hind sight may have not have been a wise course of action although at the time i thought i was doing the right thing

climbed the ladder unaided unclipped stages walked across the boat to sit down and dekit terrible burning pain and ringing in my ears as i unclipped my harness and lifted the lungs over my shoulder it was like someoine lifting a screen infront of my eyes slowly rising up until i blacked out and my mate caught me before i fell and made me lie down and did the o2 for a while symptoms completly went with just a general tired feeling until approx ttillhree hours later with a pins and needles s breathing o2 all the time as the boat was steaming back in,

as the boat tied up a sharp pain in both knees started which within five mins had progressed to a complete numbness in both legs and a loss of ability to stand or focus, the doc was on site in her car in a matter of mins as there were no ambulances available for the short journey which was thirty seconds walk!! but i couldnt walk so it was a necessity had full tests failed all of them in a real state by this point body in hypothermic shock severly dehydrated despite takin a litre of drink on the dive unable to locate a vein for the saline drip to get fluid in this continued for ages my arm was like a pin cushion, evertually got the drip in priceeded to whach saline in an atempt to rehydrate but sadly had missed and not realised and had the fluid going into tissue blown down to 18m for 9 hours on pure o2 had ox tox dehydartion burning lungs all usuall symptoms twitching started still great pain, pain subsided when raised to 9m after tenth or elevnth hour no residual symptoms walked out of the pot pain and symptom free due to the nature of incident medivaced to the commercial diving facility in aberdeen for further monitoring incase further treatment so they could use heliox as a treatment and be mre comfortable

six months later checked for pfo which was negative and no residual symptoms and all cleared to gas dive agaoin with no restricions

sorry for the long write up dont think i have missed anything

Ahhh, hence the title 'decowarrior' right?

Jeez, that hurt just reading it.

Glad you walked away from it OK.

cedricverdier · 23rd March 2006, 23:59

Been bend a few years ago while being a safety diver for a free diving competition in the Red Sea. I spent 20 minutes at 80m on trimix with an Inspiration. Nice Cutis Marmorata on my back and my neck. Maybe because I spent the all time looking up and down at the free divers swimming effortlessly along the descent line while I was carrying multiple bulky bail-out tanks...

Dehydration was definitely the main factor.

Some joint bends also a couple of time, mainly during very deep dives. I also figured out that the RGBM algorythm doesn't fit me very well.

Cheers

Fred Evans · 24th March 2006, 02:52

Sorry everyone, screwed up and ticked Heliox by mistake (instead of trimix).

My case was during multi day repet dives in the 60m - 70m range, total dive times in the 2.5 – 3.0 hour range. Using VPM B, level 2 conservatism, precut tables. Had a flu bug and was badly dehydrated i.e. my own stupid fault. May have also suffered from poor setpoint control, diving a KISS while wriggling about in wrecks.

Collapsed an hour or so after a dive (captains wife broke my fall, lucky break huh). Spent a bad night with joint pain in my legs and feet and generally feeling shitty, borderline for treatment, my call.

Have also had a few close calls while finding my VPM conservatism ‘niche’, but nothing a couple of beers and a few aspirin couldn’t solve. These I tend to notice first in the wrists possibly because of the after effects of a bend I had in both during an OC dive when evaluating VPM when it first came out …. can’t think of any other reason why my wrists might be susceptible!. Surprisingly after all these years never had a skin bend, maybe because it’s thick?

Regards, Fred

View Poll Results: have you ever been bent while diving with a rebreather
Never !!!	98	74.24%
Pain only DCS (joint, limb)	15	11.36%
Skin bend	9	6.82%
neurological DCS	11	8.33%
Other symptoms (please explain)	4	3.03%
While diving on Nitrox	8	6.06%
While diving on Trimix	20	15.15%
While diving on Heliox	1	0.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

23rd March 2006, 15:50	#1 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 488	bent using a rebreather? Hi all, A poll about rebreather divers being bent while diving with their rebreather. - Type of DCS? - Type of Mix? - predisposing factors? - circumstances? I know it's always a very sensitive topics and many divers don't like to publicly admit they have been bent. So stay anonymous if you want, but at least answer the questions in the poll (several answers allowed). And to keep the figures realistic, please also answer even if you've never been bent (lucky you!!!) Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 16:01	#2 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: bent using a rebreather? Sub clinical symptoms diving 18/45 trimix and decoing out on a 1.3 set point at 6m prior to a drop to 0.7 set point and a 5min ascent to the surface. No stops missed normal modified VR3 profile with VPM stile ascent to VR3 shallow stop and clearing VR3 at 6m Aches pains and extremely sleepy after the dives. Symptoms lasted overnight. No Hyperbaric treatment sought but ambient 02 used next day. This happened three times I put the first one down to being knackered but there was no excuse for the second or third incident. I switched to pure 02 flush at 6m for the final 20mins of deco with fresh gas every 5mins and I never had the problem again. Unfortunately doing this has put my CNS way over 100 on a couple of occasions. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 16:54	#3 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,358	Re: bent using a rebreather? I wish some of the other positive responses chimed in here. C'mon guys no shame, we're all friends. Thanks Mark __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 17:07	#4 (permalink)
The Purist Flood-master Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 96	Re: bent using a rebreather? Pain only DCS in my leg after 30 mins at 65ish IIRC - using 10/50 dil, 10/90 GF tables, 1.2 PO2 on bottom. No predisposing factors I knew of - symptoms noticed about 3 hrs post dive, quick squeeze in the pot and it was sorted. Had recently dropped from 20/80 to 10/90 GFs so upped the deco again after that.
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 18:15	#5 (permalink)
decowarrior New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: stoke Posts: 42	Re: bent using a rebreather? 115m for 24 mins, 8 degrees water temp 4.5 hour run time, vpm b expedition table used suit flood at 50m on the way back up, 6/72 bottom gas 1.3 setpoint switch to20/30 at 45m and a po2 rise to 1.5 until 6m where pure o2 was used and 20/30 for air breaks every 12 mins, very cold by that point shaking and showing symptoms sat out all planned deco even thoughi was hypothermic which in hind sight may have not have been a wise course of action although at the time i thought i was doing the right thing climbed the ladder unaided unclipped stages walked across the boat to sit down and dekit terrible burning pain and ringing in my ears as i unclipped my harness and lifted the lungs over my shoulder it was like someoine lifting a screen infront of my eyes slowly rising up until i blacked out and my mate caught me before i fell and made me lie down and did the o2 for a while symptoms completly went with just a general tired feeling until approx ttillhree hours later with a pins and needles s breathing o2 all the time as the boat was steaming back in, as the boat tied up a sharp pain in both knees started which within five mins had progressed to a complete numbness in both legs and a loss of ability to stand or focus, the doc was on site in her car in a matter of mins as there were no ambulances available for the short journey which was thirty seconds walk!! but i couldnt walk so it was a necessity had full tests failed all of them in a real state by this point body in hypothermic shock severly dehydrated despite takin a litre of drink on the dive unable to locate a vein for the saline drip to get fluid in this continued for ages my arm was like a pin cushion, evertually got the drip in priceeded to whach saline in an atempt to rehydrate but sadly had missed and not realised and had the fluid going into tissue blown down to 18m for 9 hours on pure o2 had ox tox dehydartion burning lungs all usuall symptoms twitching started still great pain, pain subsided when raised to 9m after tenth or elevnth hour no residual symptoms walked out of the pot pain and symptom free due to the nature of incident medivaced to the commercial diving facility in aberdeen for further monitoring incase further treatment so they could use heliox as a treatment and be mre comfortable six months later checked for pfo which was negative and no residual symptoms and all cleared to gas dive agaoin with no restricions sorry for the long write up dont think i have missed anything __________________ wetter the better
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 18:17	#6 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: bent using a rebreather? It's not long, it's thorough. (written with a Rebreather state of mind ) __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 19:14	#7 (permalink)
J. V. Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet rEvo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lot & Savoie Posts: 231	Re: bent using a rebreather? Two bend in right shoulder. First was in Mediterranea after a dive around 80 m for 25 min, descent was a hard work because of current, hard work on the wreck too (cause our boat anchor was deep in the wreck - PpO2 fall around 0.5 at 80 m), and, last but not least, mistake in computer (HSE-O) programation, diluant breathed tmx 10/70, diluant programed 14/50. Pain came just some minutes after surfacing (I was always in the water). Treated by IWR, one hour O2 (open circuit) betwen 9 m and surface, and the days after an other hour O2 (CCR) betwen 6 and surface. Second ten month after in tropical water, bend at the same place in the same shoulder. No spécial work, no program mistake, deco longer than HSE say (my buddy had a VR3). No special reason for bend, except it was an expedition with two dive by day. It was the second dive of the second day, around 90 m with diluant tmx 10/60 Two or three hours after the dive, pain come in right shoulder. Treated by IWR, 90 min O2 (CCR) between 9 m and surface. Since this last pain, I use heliox as diluant and it seams to be better. __________________ -------------------- Jacques NPSFQQA-EDS IT # 007 (remué non agité)
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 20:13	#8 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Re: bent using a rebreather? Quote: (Originally Posted by decowarrior) 115m for 24 mins, 8 degrees water temp 4.5 hour run time, vpm b expedition table used suit flood at 50m on the way back up, 6/72 bottom gas 1.3 setpoint switch to20/30 at 45m and a po2 rise to 1.5 until 6m where pure o2 was used and 20/30 for air breaks every 12 mins, very cold by that point shaking and showing symptoms sat out all planned deco even thoughi was hypothermic which in hind sight may have not have been a wise course of action although at the time i thought i was doing the right thing climbed the ladder unaided unclipped stages walked across the boat to sit down and dekit terrible burning pain and ringing in my ears as i unclipped my harness and lifted the lungs over my shoulder it was like someoine lifting a screen infront of my eyes slowly rising up until i blacked out and my mate caught me before i fell and made me lie down and did the o2 for a while symptoms completly went with just a general tired feeling until approx ttillhree hours later with a pins and needles s breathing o2 all the time as the boat was steaming back in, as the boat tied up a sharp pain in both knees started which within five mins had progressed to a complete numbness in both legs and a loss of ability to stand or focus, the doc was on site in her car in a matter of mins as there were no ambulances available for the short journey which was thirty seconds walk!! but i couldnt walk so it was a necessity had full tests failed all of them in a real state by this point body in hypothermic shock severly dehydrated despite takin a litre of drink on the dive unable to locate a vein for the saline drip to get fluid in this continued for ages my arm was like a pin cushion, evertually got the drip in priceeded to whach saline in an atempt to rehydrate but sadly had missed and not realised and had the fluid going into tissue blown down to 18m for 9 hours on pure o2 had ox tox dehydartion burning lungs all usuall symptoms twitching started still great pain, pain subsided when raised to 9m after tenth or elevnth hour no residual symptoms walked out of the pot pain and symptom free due to the nature of incident medivaced to the commercial diving facility in aberdeen for further monitoring incase further treatment so they could use heliox as a treatment and be mre comfortable six months later checked for pfo which was negative and no residual symptoms and all cleared to gas dive agaoin with no restricions sorry for the long write up dont think i have missed anything Ahhh, hence the title 'decowarrior' right? Jeez, that hurt just reading it. Glad you walked away from it OK. __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival.
(Offline)

23rd March 2006, 23:59	#9 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 488	Re: bent using a rebreather? Been bend a few years ago while being a safety diver for a free diving competition in the Red Sea. I spent 20 minutes at 80m on trimix with an Inspiration. Nice Cutis Marmorata on my back and my neck. Maybe because I spent the all time looking up and down at the free divers swimming effortlessly along the descent line while I was carrying multiple bulky bail-out tanks... Dehydration was definitely the main factor. Some joint bends also a couple of time, mainly during very deep dives. I also figured out that the RGBM algorythm doesn't fit me very well. Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
(Offline)

24th March 2006, 02:52	#10 (permalink)
Fred Evans Old Bull Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indonesia, Jakarta Posts: 51	Re: bent using a rebreather? Sorry everyone, screwed up and ticked Heliox by mistake (instead of trimix). My case was during multi day repet dives in the 60m - 70m range, total dive times in the 2.5 – 3.0 hour range. Using VPM B, level 2 conservatism, precut tables. Had a flu bug and was badly dehydrated i.e. my own stupid fault. May have also suffered from poor setpoint control, diving a KISS while wriggling about in wrecks. Collapsed an hour or so after a dive (captains wife broke my fall, lucky break huh). Spent a bad night with joint pain in my legs and feet and generally feeling shitty, borderline for treatment, my call. Have also had a few close calls while finding my VPM conservatism ‘niche’, but nothing a couple of beers and a few aspirin couldn’t solve. These I tend to notice first in the wrists possibly because of the after effects of a bend I had in both during an OC dive when evaluating VPM when it first came out …. can’t think of any other reason why my wrists might be susceptible!. Surprisingly after all these years never had a skin bend, maybe because it’s thick? Regards, Fred
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode