Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ???

Scubascooby · 10th March 2006, 12:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

BSR-Aerotek sell a good range of UNF to BSP/NPT adapters and hose tails with online ordering. They're a motorbike parts company in the UK.

Are these ok to use with the exisiting parts in marine (salt) environment ?
I was looking at them last month and assumed they are Al alloy.

I was looking for some straight fittings to replace the 90 degree ones on
my KISS.

***Beanie*** · 10th March 2006, 13:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scubascooby)

Are these ok to use with the exisiting parts in marine (salt) environment ?
I was looking at them last month and assumed they are Al alloy.

I was looking for some straight fittings to replace the 90 degree ones on
my KISS.

BSP/NPT are steel I use them on my baby booster

Rikard Bengtsson · 12th March 2006, 07:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

BSR-Aerotek sell a good range of UNF to BSP/NPT adapters and hose tails with online ordering. They're a motorbike parts company in the UK.

Hi
Souds interesting, do you have and links ??

Best regards
Rikard Bengtsson

Rikard Bengtsson · 12th March 2006, 08:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

In a word yes we have tested this type of hose IMHO I don’t think this is a good choice for oxygen there is a much better option with the SAE 100 R7 and stainless crimped ends. Using nitrile is the poorest option, Swagelok were well advised to suggest changing the hose each year. In oxygen nitrile is a pretty poor material and will age quickly become brittle and crack.

Also consider that push on fitting are not allowed in divers breathing hoses offshore or with military as not an effective closure for critical use. Re-useable type fittings for commercial divers umbilical and bail out whips were banned some 20 years ago.

The other consideration for breathing hose is the fitting pull test (push ons failed this) and a tension test were a sample hose is loaded with a 50Kg weight over a 2 inch tube for 24 hours, the hose is then tested for elongation and deflection by length measurement and by shooting a steel ball through the hose. If it passes this the sample is then subjected to a hydraulic burst test within 12 hours. Agreed not all “divers” equipment is tested to this standard showing once again the difference between standards for Diving and Scuba. Iain Middlebrook

Hi Iain
Thanks for your opininons, I have been thinking about the things you are saying a lot, and also been talking with the folks who are making the hoses for the AGA interspiro system.
The problem I have, is to make custom hoses between two different "worlds". The scuba and the industrial high preassure gas hose worlds.
My plan was to use the BP-4 hose for prototyping, as I think it´s good enough for that.
But the main problem still stands, to produce the high (highest) quality hoses for permanent use. I still have´nt found anyone who can supply crimped SS fittings for both "worlds".

Maybe I'll have to make some of them them by my self ??

Another problem is everyones different opinions about material good enough for oxygen, I think there is as many opinions as pepole answering this.

Anyway im very thankful for more tips about this.

Best regards
Rikard Bengtsson
Sweden

iain-hsm · 13th March 2006, 09:43

There is probably at lot less difference between industrial and scuba than you think both using adequate equipment at the cheapest possible price. The solution to the problem is clear however the cost and availability of product is difficult. It is therefore the degree of compromise to which you are willing or able to go that will dictate your final design outcome.

The solution we came up with being best oxygen compatible material with best sea water resistance was a nickel bronze quill with a bronze end crimp fitting of sufficient crush strength to crimp without cracking. That way we had full oxygen compliance but with a stronger end fitting than using brass. (200 barg WP with a 4:1 safety ratio) Phosphor Bronze would also do heavy duty use.

For hose we used a thermoplastic non conductive version of SAE100R7 (as in the Swagelok catalogue) but with a Kevlar inner fiber. This made a smaller OD than industrial R7 or R8 hose.

Out of interest from our tests the 316 stainless end fittings failed on 2 points the oxygen compliance issue of the quill and the possibility of crevice corrosion under the outer crimp, although it was the best in strength fitting. The Brass CZ121 fittings failed on the hydraulic test only, on 02 compliance and corrosion it was OK.
To note is we also modified the crimping tool “pallet swaged” to avoid cracking the outer crimp as originally these tools are used on malleable steel fittings and using different materials does affect performance. iain.

Rikard Bengtsson · 17th March 2006, 16:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

There is probably at lot less difference between industrial and scuba than you think both using adequate equipment at the cheapest possible price. The solution to the problem is clear however the cost and availability of product is difficult. It is therefore the degree of compromise to which you are willing or able to go that will dictate your final design outcome.

The solution we came up with being best oxygen compatible material with best sea water resistance was a nickel bronze quill with a bronze end crimp fitting of sufficient crush strength to crimp without cracking. That way we had full oxygen compliance but with a stronger end fitting than using brass. (200 barg WP with a 4:1 safety ratio) Phosphor Bronze would also do heavy duty use.

For hose we used a thermoplastic non conductive version of SAE100R7 (as in the Swagelok catalogue) but with a Kevlar inner fiber. This made a smaller OD than industrial R7 or R8 hose.

Out of interest from our tests the 316 stainless end fittings failed on 2 points the oxygen compliance issue of the quill and the possibility of crevice corrosion under the outer crimp, although it was the best in strength fitting. The Brass CZ121 fittings failed on the hydraulic test only, on 02 compliance and corrosion it was OK.
To note is we also modified the crimping tool “pallet swaged” to avoid cracking the outer crimp as originally these tools are used on malleable steel fittings and using different materials does affect performance. iain.

Hi Iain

I have been away for a couple of days.

Very interesting information, do you have any names of suppliers of fittings and crimp sleeves ???

(Are you working at HSM-enngineering ?? Interesting because I have a RIX SA6)

Best regards
Rikard Bengtsson
Sweden

10th March 2006, 12:58	#21 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 367	Re: Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ??? Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) BSR-Aerotek sell a good range of UNF to BSP/NPT adapters and hose tails with online ordering. They're a motorbike parts company in the UK. Are these ok to use with the exisiting parts in marine (salt) environment ? I was looking at them last month and assumed they are Al alloy. I was looking for some straight fittings to replace the 90 degree ones on my KISS. __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU !
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10th March 2006, 13:07	#22 (permalink)
*Beanie* Close to that red button Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,207	Re: Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ??? Quote: (Originally Posted by Scubascooby) Are these ok to use with the exisiting parts in marine (salt) environment ? I was looking at them last month and assumed they are Al alloy. I was looking for some straight fittings to replace the 90 degree ones on my KISS. BSP/NPT are steel I use them on my baby booster __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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12th March 2006, 07:55	#23 (permalink)
Rikard Bengtsson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Ouroboros Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 14	Re: Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ??? Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) BSR-Aerotek sell a good range of UNF to BSP/NPT adapters and hose tails with online ordering. They're a motorbike parts company in the UK. Hi Souds interesting, do you have and links ?? Best regards Rikard Bengtsson Last edited by Rikard Bengtsson : 12th March 2006 at 07:56. Reason: spelling
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12th March 2006, 08:32	#24 (permalink)
Rikard Bengtsson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Ouroboros Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 14	Re: Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ??? Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) In a word yes we have tested this type of hose IMHO I don’t think this is a good choice for oxygen there is a much better option with the SAE 100 R7 and stainless crimped ends. Using nitrile is the poorest option, Swagelok were well advised to suggest changing the hose each year. In oxygen nitrile is a pretty poor material and will age quickly become brittle and crack. Also consider that push on fitting are not allowed in divers breathing hoses offshore or with military as not an effective closure for critical use. Re-useable type fittings for commercial divers umbilical and bail out whips were banned some 20 years ago. The other consideration for breathing hose is the fitting pull test (push ons failed this) and a tension test were a sample hose is loaded with a 50Kg weight over a 2 inch tube for 24 hours, the hose is then tested for elongation and deflection by length measurement and by shooting a steel ball through the hose. If it passes this the sample is then subjected to a hydraulic burst test within 12 hours. Agreed not all “divers” equipment is tested to this standard showing once again the difference between standards for Diving and Scuba. Iain Middlebrook Hi Iain Thanks for your opininons, I have been thinking about the things you are saying a lot, and also been talking with the folks who are making the hoses for the AGA interspiro system. The problem I have, is to make custom hoses between two different "worlds". The scuba and the industrial high preassure gas hose worlds. My plan was to use the BP-4 hose for prototyping, as I think it´s good enough for that. But the main problem still stands, to produce the high (highest) quality hoses for permanent use. I still have´nt found anyone who can supply crimped SS fittings for both "worlds". Maybe I'll have to make some of them them by my self ?? Another problem is everyones different opinions about material good enough for oxygen, I think there is as many opinions as pepole answering this. Anyway im very thankful for more tips about this. Best regards Rikard Bengtsson Sweden
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13th March 2006, 09:43	#25 (permalink)
iain-hsm Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Loughborough England uk Posts: 347	Re: Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ??? There is probably at lot less difference between industrial and scuba than you think both using adequate equipment at the cheapest possible price. The solution to the problem is clear however the cost and availability of product is difficult. It is therefore the degree of compromise to which you are willing or able to go that will dictate your final design outcome. The solution we came up with being best oxygen compatible material with best sea water resistance was a nickel bronze quill with a bronze end crimp fitting of sufficient crush strength to crimp without cracking. That way we had full oxygen compliance but with a stronger end fitting than using brass. (200 barg WP with a 4:1 safety ratio) Phosphor Bronze would also do heavy duty use. For hose we used a thermoplastic non conductive version of SAE100R7 (as in the Swagelok catalogue) but with a Kevlar inner fiber. This made a smaller OD than industrial R7 or R8 hose. Out of interest from our tests the 316 stainless end fittings failed on 2 points the oxygen compliance issue of the quill and the possibility of crevice corrosion under the outer crimp, although it was the best in strength fitting. The Brass CZ121 fittings failed on the hydraulic test only, on 02 compliance and corrosion it was OK. To note is we also modified the crimping tool “pallet swaged” to avoid cracking the outer crimp as originally these tools are used on malleable steel fittings and using different materials does affect performance. iain.
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17th March 2006, 16:45	#26 (permalink)
Rikard Bengtsson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Ouroboros Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 14	Re: Has anyone used this swagelok hoses ??? Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm) There is probably at lot less difference between industrial and scuba than you think both using adequate equipment at the cheapest possible price. The solution to the problem is clear however the cost and availability of product is difficult. It is therefore the degree of compromise to which you are willing or able to go that will dictate your final design outcome. The solution we came up with being best oxygen compatible material with best sea water resistance was a nickel bronze quill with a bronze end crimp fitting of sufficient crush strength to crimp without cracking. That way we had full oxygen compliance but with a stronger end fitting than using brass. (200 barg WP with a 4:1 safety ratio) Phosphor Bronze would also do heavy duty use. For hose we used a thermoplastic non conductive version of SAE100R7 (as in the Swagelok catalogue) but with a Kevlar inner fiber. This made a smaller OD than industrial R7 or R8 hose. Out of interest from our tests the 316 stainless end fittings failed on 2 points the oxygen compliance issue of the quill and the possibility of crevice corrosion under the outer crimp, although it was the best in strength fitting. The Brass CZ121 fittings failed on the hydraulic test only, on 02 compliance and corrosion it was OK. To note is we also modified the crimping tool “pallet swaged” to avoid cracking the outer crimp as originally these tools are used on malleable steel fittings and using different materials does affect performance. iain. Hi Iain I have been away for a couple of days. Very interesting information, do you have any names of suppliers of fittings and crimp sleeves ??? (Are you working at HSM-enngineering ?? Interesting because I have a RIX SA6) Best regards Rikard Bengtsson Sweden
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