bailout Rebreather questions

farmerted · 6th March 2006, 01:46

Hey all,
Just got back from several weeks in n Fla( cave country) and my mind is spinning with new ideas. Having conducted many trips in the 3-5 hour range, my interest in a bailout Rebreather has been rekindled. What a pain to drag all those bottles in only to have to bring them back. Why not carry an extra breather. Personally, I think twin backmounts don't cut it. A bailout Rebreather should be configured so that it is instantly ready to hand off IMHO(this has already been discussed here).
My current bailout Rebreather is a tp3000, the production model of the Smithers tp2000. There were only 2 of these built, and while it does work fine, it is a little bulky( for those interested,I can elaborate). My parameters for a bailout are, 1:the size of an al80, 2:ability to hand off, 3

f course, robustness.
Questions are: rb80/ed04? Looks good from a watertrap point of view, but what about WOB characteristics when worn on the side?Btw, I'm not looking to use this as a semi rig, will build as a closed unit. I like the idea of the cl at the bottom with a op valve for flushing. Also, bottle size can be reduced as it only has to get one out from maximum point. Feedback most appreciated. Ted

Crazyduck · 6th March 2006, 03:41

Sounds like you had a great time in cave country, welcome back.

First, please consider doing an article on the TP3000 with Pictures. I am a huge fan of Will’s work and with his passing I figured I would never actually see a TP3000- so please grab the digital camera and for posterity write up a short article- lots of people ask about the TP3000 and it would mean a lot to those of us that remembers Will’s work.

In the article section there are about three write ups on either side mounted units or bailout units. Have a gander there first. There has been talk of a few manufactures making bailouts but to date things have been limited. I am sure Stefan will clean up my limited knowledge tomorrow.

Have a great evening.
Andrew

Deep Thought · 6th March 2006, 03:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by farmerted)

Hey all,
Just got back from several weeks in n Fla( cave country) and my mind is spinning with new ideas. Having conducted many trips in the 3-5 hour range, my interest in a bailout Rebreather has been rekindled. What a pain to drag all those bottles in only to have to bring them back. Why not carry an extra breather. Personally, I think twin backmounts don't cut it. A bailout Rebreather should be configured so that it is instantly ready to hand off IMHO(this has already been discussed here).
My current bailout Rebreather is a tp3000, the production model of the Smithers tp2000. There were only 2 of these built, and while it does work fine, it is a little bulky( for those interested,I can elaborate). My parameters for a bailout are, 1:the size of an al80, 2:ability to hand off, 3

f course, robustness.
Questions are: rb80/ed04? Looks good from a watertrap point of view, but what about WOB characteristics when worn on the side?Btw, I'm not looking to use this as a semi rig, will build as a closed unit. I like the idea of the cl at the bottom with a op valve for flushing. Also, bottle size can be reduced as it only has to get one out from maximum point. Feedback most appreciated. Ted

Ted

The idea is more than just justified it is logical to the point where I wonder why do we invest in a system such as a rebreather, go to gonzo depths or extremes with these things and fall back on open circuit.

I have dives in Lake Superior planned on some new wrecks that require a significant bailout in cold dark water and I don’t want to bailout on o.c. the dive justifies the investment in either a duplicate ccr for the team or some fashion of bailout ccr.

Like to hear what you have in mind and see the pics of Smithers system.

Deep Thought

johnv · 6th March 2006, 06:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought)

I wonder why do we invest in a system such as a rebreather, go to gonzo depths or extremes with these things and fall back on open circuit.

because it's simple. 2 rebreathers is a pain and most people don't need that type of redundancy.

BTW Counterlung at the bottom of a sidemounted CCR will make WOB awful anything but horizontal. RB80 style passive addition CCR's don't mount well on the side.

teksimple · 6th March 2006, 07:22

I am all about building a TP3000. Maybe instead of that throw-together scrubber an Azimuth extendair canister (unless DiveRite/Farallon would sell theirs) would be better and get you longer time for the size. And then the Uwatec Oxy2 for $99.00. My time is more valable than tweakin with a bunch of urethane potting.

bubnotbub · 6th March 2006, 08:15

Hi
I have tried just yesterday a rebreather side mount, the DDD http://deepdevildiver.free.fr/Recycl...esentation.htm, in prevision to use it in a series of dives where we will have need of a rebreather as bailout.
The new version with two counterlungs, the breathing are easy but is defect it is may be the dimensions.
I dive with it for only few minuts (afer a 100 minuts training dive) but firts impressions are really good.
We will effect other tests at the end of the month of March, and I will adjourn you' on the results

Best regards

Aldo

***caveseeker7*** · 6th March 2006, 16:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

I am sure Stefan will clean up my limited knowledge tomorrow.

Well, at least you didn't ask me to clean up your mind.

Actually, I'm probably not the person to ask as I've never used a BOB,
but sidemounted RBs are fairly frequently used in Europe(an caves).

But I have two suggestions that may be worth look into:
The EDO-08 and the Joker shown at DEMA. Both replace the bellows with bags, but they're on top of the scrubber rather than below, so sidemounted they should breathe better. The Joker even had the one sided DSV.

Crazyduck · 6th March 2006, 18:35

For me thats easy cntl/Alt/ Del.

However, that Mac nonsense- who knows.

Later, andrew

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Well, at least you didn't ask me to clean up your mind.

farmerted · 6th March 2006, 22:12

Thanks to everyone for all the info thus far. My main reason for cl at bottom is for water drainage. I also figured that the wob would be fine in a horizontal plane, because the tail end would be at hip hieght or even with the body. This obviously would change when in a vertical position. Aslo am thinking the trim would be better. We had the tp3000's configured so that one carries them as a regular bottle and then clips the unit across the stomach with the lungs above, kind of like a larv. The really neat part of this rig was an integrated spare air(yes, one of those). This was nestled in a tube inside the scrubber and had the top(diapragm/purge button) exposed to ambient pressure. On the lungs were regular drysuit valves to plug in offboard o2 and dil. I'll post an article on it's history with pics in the near future when I get some free time. After all, I was in florida for a month goofing of and am paying the price at work now. Ted

**trob09** · 7th March 2006, 12:17

Ted,

I'd love to see the photos. Thanks for playing tour guide in High Springs.

tim

6th March 2006, 01:46	#1 (permalink)
farmerted New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Long Island/Wakulla Posts: 13	bailout Rebreather questions Hey all, Just got back from several weeks in n Fla( cave country) and my mind is spinning with new ideas. Having conducted many trips in the 3-5 hour range, my interest in a bailout Rebreather has been rekindled. What a pain to drag all those bottles in only to have to bring them back. Why not carry an extra breather. Personally, I think twin backmounts don't cut it. A bailout Rebreather should be configured so that it is instantly ready to hand off IMHO(this has already been discussed here). My current bailout Rebreather is a tp3000, the production model of the Smithers tp2000. There were only 2 of these built, and while it does work fine, it is a little bulky( for those interested,I can elaborate). My parameters for a bailout are, 1:the size of an al80, 2:ability to hand off, 3f course, robustness. Questions are: rb80/ed04? Looks good from a watertrap point of view, but what about WOB characteristics when worn on the side?Btw, I'm not looking to use this as a semi rig, will build as a closed unit. I like the idea of the cl at the bottom with a op valve for flushing. Also, bottle size can be reduced as it only has to get one out from maximum point. Feedback most appreciated. Ted
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6th March 2006, 03:41	#2 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 694	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Sounds like you had a great time in cave country, welcome back. First, please consider doing an article on the TP3000 with Pictures. I am a huge fan of Will’s work and with his passing I figured I would never actually see a TP3000- so please grab the digital camera and for posterity write up a short article- lots of people ask about the TP3000 and it would mean a lot to those of us that remembers Will’s work. In the article section there are about three write ups on either side mounted units or bailout units. Have a gander there first. There has been talk of a few manufactures making bailouts but to date things have been limited. I am sure Stefan will clean up my limited knowledge tomorrow. Have a great evening. Andrew __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
(Offline)

6th March 2006, 03:50	#3 (permalink)
Deep Thought Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Great Lakes Posts: 190	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Quote: (Originally Posted by farmerted) Hey all, Just got back from several weeks in n Fla( cave country) and my mind is spinning with new ideas. Having conducted many trips in the 3-5 hour range, my interest in a bailout Rebreather has been rekindled. What a pain to drag all those bottles in only to have to bring them back. Why not carry an extra breather. Personally, I think twin backmounts don't cut it. A bailout Rebreather should be configured so that it is instantly ready to hand off IMHO(this has already been discussed here). My current bailout Rebreather is a tp3000, the production model of the Smithers tp2000. There were only 2 of these built, and while it does work fine, it is a little bulky( for those interested,I can elaborate). My parameters for a bailout are, 1:the size of an al80, 2:ability to hand off, 3f course, robustness. Questions are: rb80/ed04? Looks good from a watertrap point of view, but what about WOB characteristics when worn on the side?Btw, I'm not looking to use this as a semi rig, will build as a closed unit. I like the idea of the cl at the bottom with a op valve for flushing. Also, bottle size can be reduced as it only has to get one out from maximum point. Feedback most appreciated. Ted Ted The idea is more than just justified it is logical to the point where I wonder why do we invest in a system such as a rebreather, go to gonzo depths or extremes with these things and fall back on open circuit. I have dives in Lake Superior planned on some new wrecks that require a significant bailout in cold dark water and I don’t want to bailout on o.c. the dive justifies the investment in either a duplicate ccr for the team or some fashion of bailout ccr. Like to hear what you have in mind and see the pics of Smithers system. Deep Thought __________________ Creature Of Habits; Mostly Bad www.gudcscuba.com
(Offline)

6th March 2006, 06:28	#4 (permalink)
johnv Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK Posts: 125	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought) I wonder why do we invest in a system such as a rebreather, go to gonzo depths or extremes with these things and fall back on open circuit. because it's simple. 2 rebreathers is a pain and most people don't need that type of redundancy. BTW Counterlung at the bottom of a sidemounted CCR will make WOB awful anything but horizontal. RB80 style passive addition CCR's don't mount well on the side.
(Offline)

6th March 2006, 07:22	#5 (permalink)
teksimple Enlightened Alpinist Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back in Hawaii Posts: 477	Re: bailout Rebreather questions I am all about building a TP3000. Maybe instead of that throw-together scrubber an Azimuth extendair canister (unless DiveRite/Farallon would sell theirs) would be better and get you longer time for the size. And then the Uwatec Oxy2 for $99.00. My time is more valable than tweakin with a bunch of urethane potting.
(Offline)

6th March 2006, 08:15	#6 (permalink)
bubnotbub Silent diver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: France Italy Posts: 383	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Hi I have tried just yesterday a rebreather side mount, the DDD http://deepdevildiver.free.fr/Recycl...esentation.htm, in prevision to use it in a series of dives where we will have need of a rebreather as bailout. The new version with two counterlungs, the breathing are easy but is defect it is may be the dimensions. I dive with it for only few minuts (afer a 100 minuts training dive) but firts impressions are really good. We will effect other tests at the end of the month of March, and I will adjourn you' on the results Best regards Aldo __________________ Aldo Ferrucci *Trimix and Rebreather IT* *Expedition Leader* *www.bubnotbub.com* I like bubbles only in my glass of Champagne
(Offline)

6th March 2006, 16:52	#7 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,284	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) I am sure Stefan will clean up my limited knowledge tomorrow. Well, at least you didn't ask me to clean up your mind. Actually, I'm probably not the person to ask as I've never used a BOB, but sidemounted RBs are fairly frequently used in Europe(an caves). But I have two suggestions that may be worth look into: The EDO-08 and the Joker shown at DEMA. Both replace the bellows with bags, but they're on top of the scrubber rather than below, so sidemounted they should breathe better. The Joker even had the one sided DSV. __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life! Last edited by caveseeker7 : 6th March 2006 at 21:12.
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6th March 2006, 18:35	#8 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 694	Re: bailout Rebreather questions For me thats easy cntl/Alt/ Del. However, that Mac nonsense- who knows. Later, andrew Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Well, at least you didn't ask me to clean up your mind. __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
(Offline)

6th March 2006, 22:12	#9 (permalink)
farmerted New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Long Island/Wakulla Posts: 13	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Thanks to everyone for all the info thus far. My main reason for cl at bottom is for water drainage. I also figured that the wob would be fine in a horizontal plane, because the tail end would be at hip hieght or even with the body. This obviously would change when in a vertical position. Aslo am thinking the trim would be better. We had the tp3000's configured so that one carries them as a regular bottle and then clips the unit across the stomach with the lungs above, kind of like a larv. The really neat part of this rig was an integrated spare air(yes, one of those). This was nestled in a tube inside the scrubber and had the top(diapragm/purge button) exposed to ambient pressure. On the lungs were regular drysuit valves to plug in offboard o2 and dil. I'll post an article on it's history with pics in the near future when I get some free time. After all, I was in florida for a month goofing of and am paying the price at work now. Ted
(Offline)

7th March 2006, 12:17	#10 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 685	Re: bailout Rebreather questions Ted, I'd love to see the photos. Thanks for playing tour guide in High Springs. tim
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