Bail out tank valves

John Langley · 4th March 2006, 17:25

I was chatting to a friend of mine today who has just finished his mod2 and 3 in the Red sea, and he tells me he was taught to turn on, then off, his bailout cyls at the surface, and then to do the same at roughly every 10metres or so on his decent.
When I did my original Kiss course I was taught to turn the cyls on at the surface, and leave them turned on throuhout the dive.
What is the correct procedure, or are both acceptable

regards

J.L.

If all sparrows are birds why ar'nt all birds sparrows?

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 4th March 2006, 19:04

I turn mine on to put pressure in the hose, keeping water from working its way up to the first stage during the dive. I turn it off after that. Underwater, I turn it on and off again periodically, just in case water movement or other events during the dive have caused the gas in the hose to leak out into the environment.

I prefer this method over leaving the valve on all the time. Especially when diving in a strong current or scootering, you might not notice gas leaking during the dive. If you were to need your bailout bottle, it could be a real problem if it had a lot of gas depleted from leaving the valve on.

Though I have never personally been there when someone leaked all of their breathing gas by leaving the valve open, a former instructor of mine was on a dive when another person did so (on open circuit, having to do a lot of deco on back gas). It can and does happen. This is why I would not leave the tank on other than to pressurize occasionally.

Leaving pressure in the hose should provide enough gas for you to start to get a breath when pressurizing the hose if you should ever need to bail out. It only takes less than a second to open the valve enough to get gas flowing in sufficiently to allow an adequate breath.

Scuba_Vixen · 4th March 2006, 19:57

Both methods, (charge once at the surface and turn off, and charge multiple times during descent and turn off) are practicle within about 50 to 60 m of the surface. Charging once at the surface only is more likely to cause issues as depth increases.

Once you start getting deeper, (as you would in mod3), then the original 9 bar or so of intermediate pressure in the hose is quickly being equalled by the ambient water pressure. Recharging the line at depth, brings the pressure in the hose back up to that 9 bar or so above the ambient.

At 100m, a hose charged at ther surface is actually below ambient pressure.

I typically recharg slung cylinders about every 15m after the first 40 or so. .... More often if scootering.

Darlene

wizbang · 5th March 2006, 21:23

On at the surface and left on for me. Bailing out can be stressfull enough.
I also run my suit off one stage and off-board system off the other so having them off would defeat the purpose.

If the current is strong enough to purge your reg when the tank is on then it will be strong enough to purge the little bit of line presure when it is off but charged.

NickK · 6th March 2006, 05:07

Did someone actually using flow stop at the second stage? Or they are not reliable at depth? This probably could be a good solution to keep valve opened and do not worry about lost gas. Best regards, Nick

***Decodiver*** · 6th March 2006, 08:57

Just my two euro cents....

I no longer turn on, turn off, turn on etcetera, after a friend spent an hour trying to open an Xstream first stage that had been to 120m and been f#cked!

So.......

If you jump in switched on, it may free flow and you will lose gas.

If you have a heavy task loaded descent, it may not be practicable to open and close every 15 metres or so.

So for me, if I am using my Apeks then I fire them up and use a flow-stop or if I am using my Jetstreams, I fire them up and turn them off before jumping in, I then fire them up and leave them open at the surface before descending which leads me to the next question.....

Do they make flow-stops for Jetstreams?

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

***Beanie*** · 6th March 2006, 09:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Do they make flow-stops for Jetstreams?

You can do:
you get a converter, to convert the jetstrean to a normal hose then all is normal.

***Decodiver*** · 6th March 2006, 10:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

You can do:
you get a converter, to convert the jetstrean to a normal hose then all is normal.

Thanks Beanie,

Got a link?

I am feeling lazy

Cheers

Dave

***EBT*** · 6th March 2006, 10:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

You can do:
you get a converter, to convert the jetstrean to a normal hose then all is normal.

You need to be very careful doing this. The Jetstream hose is also the OPV on poseidens.

Still, I guess its no different to putting a flowstop on a normal reg....

seafox · 6th March 2006, 16:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Thanks Beanie,

Got a link?

I am feeling lazy

Cheers

Dave

Try this: http://www.mj-engineering.com/products.html

4th March 2006, 17:25	#1 (permalink)
John Langley New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: in an appartment on the 99th floor of my block Posts: 103	Bail out tank valves I was chatting to a friend of mine today who has just finished his mod2 and 3 in the Red sea, and he tells me he was taught to turn on, then off, his bailout cyls at the surface, and then to do the same at roughly every 10metres or so on his decent. When I did my original Kiss course I was taught to turn the cyls on at the surface, and leave them turned on throuhout the dive. What is the correct procedure, or are both acceptable regards J.L. If all sparrows are birds why ar'nt all birds sparrows?
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4th March 2006, 19:04	#2 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,890	Re: Bail out tank valves I turn mine on to put pressure in the hose, keeping water from working its way up to the first stage during the dive. I turn it off after that. Underwater, I turn it on and off again periodically, just in case water movement or other events during the dive have caused the gas in the hose to leak out into the environment. I prefer this method over leaving the valve on all the time. Especially when diving in a strong current or scootering, you might not notice gas leaking during the dive. If you were to need your bailout bottle, it could be a real problem if it had a lot of gas depleted from leaving the valve on. Though I have never personally been there when someone leaked all of their breathing gas by leaving the valve open, a former instructor of mine was on a dive when another person did so (on open circuit, having to do a lot of deco on back gas). It can and does happen. This is why I would not leave the tank on other than to pressurize occasionally. Leaving pressure in the hose should provide enough gas for you to start to get a breath when pressurizing the hose if you should ever need to bail out. It only takes less than a second to open the valve enough to get gas flowing in sufficiently to allow an adequate breath. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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4th March 2006, 19:57	#3 (permalink)
Scuba_Vixen e/mCCR Dolphin Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: St. Croix USVI Posts: 557	Re: Bail out tank valves Both methods, (charge once at the surface and turn off, and charge multiple times during descent and turn off) are practicle within about 50 to 60 m of the surface. Charging once at the surface only is more likely to cause issues as depth increases. Once you start getting deeper, (as you would in mod3), then the original 9 bar or so of intermediate pressure in the hose is quickly being equalled by the ambient water pressure. Recharging the line at depth, brings the pressure in the hose back up to that 9 bar or so above the ambient. At 100m, a hose charged at ther surface is actually below ambient pressure. I typically recharg slung cylinders about every 15m after the first 40 or so. .... More often if scootering. Darlene
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5th March 2006, 21:23	#4 (permalink)
wizbang WEB MERMEN Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 379	Re: Bail out tank valves On at the surface and left on for me. Bailing out can be stressfull enough. I also run my suit off one stage and off-board system off the other so having them off would defeat the purpose. If the current is strong enough to purge your reg when the tank is on then it will be strong enough to purge the little bit of line presure when it is off but charged.
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6th March 2006, 05:07	#5 (permalink)
NickK New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 82	Re: Bail out tank valves Did someone actually using flow stop at the second stage? Or they are not reliable at depth? This probably could be a good solution to keep valve opened and do not worry about lost gas. Best regards, Nick Last edited by NickK : 6th March 2006 at 05:09.
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6th March 2006, 08:57	#6 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,164	Choices choices..... Just my two euro cents.... I no longer turn on, turn off, turn on etcetera, after a friend spent an hour trying to open an Xstream first stage that had been to 120m and been f#cked! So....... If you jump in switched on, it may free flow and you will lose gas. If you have a heavy task loaded descent, it may not be practicable to open and close every 15 metres or so. So for me, if I am using my Apeks then I fire them up and use a flow-stop or if I am using my Jetstreams, I fire them up and turn them off before jumping in, I then fire them up and leave them open at the surface before descending which leads me to the next question..... Do they make flow-stops for Jetstreams? Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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6th March 2006, 09:15	#7 (permalink)
*Beanie* Cheif tea maker Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,134	Re: Choices choices..... Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Do they make flow-stops for Jetstreams? You can do: you get a converter, to convert the jetstrean to a normal hose then all is normal. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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6th March 2006, 10:40	#8 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,164	Re: Choices choices..... Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) You can do: you get a converter, to convert the jetstrean to a normal hose then all is normal. Thanks Beanie, Got a link? I am feeling lazy Cheers Dave __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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6th March 2006, 10:51	#9 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,826	Re: Choices choices..... Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) You can do: you get a converter, to convert the jetstrean to a normal hose then all is normal. You need to be very careful doing this. The Jetstream hose is also the OPV on poseidens. Still, I guess its no different to putting a flowstop on a normal reg.... __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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6th March 2006, 16:29	#10 (permalink)
seafox 02ptima Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TORONTO, CANADA -Have "02ptima" will travel! Posts: 172	Re: Choices choices..... Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Thanks Beanie, Got a link? I am feeling lazy Cheers Dave Try this: http://www.mj-engineering.com/products.html __________________ Protect the SHARKS! Excellence is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards!
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