Access to OC Oxygen from CCR?

Andy Del · 1st March 2006, 18:30

I have a second stage on my O2 tank with a flow stop. I sits bungeed under my chin on every dive. This way on shallow non-deco dives I have an extra gas supply should I need one, resulting in double redundancy, as I dive a CK. The bailout plan on these dives is to hit the OC DSV and make my way up, then change to OC O2 for any and all safety stops.

On 50m dives, this gives me at least 15 minutes of brethable gas @ 6m. And yes, I have tried this, the reg (Dacor viper) works just fine. Marry this to bailing out on the dil tank on the bottom, moving to anintermediate gas on the way up, and there is plenty to come home on.

divetheworld · 1st March 2006, 18:35

Using a gas switching block I have connected the diluent and oxygen to the input and the output goes to the open circuit regulators. When using open circuit gas, diluent can feed the regulator until the 6m stop is reached. At this point the switching block is changed over to feed pure oxygen to maximise off-gassing of your out of gas buddy. On my unit, I am using a Drager Ray manifold to also feed the BOV. Bail out tables can now be cut to make the most of the extra gas. The tables I use are at the bottom of this page. comments, critisisms and any other comments are welcome on this.

The bail out table below is one I use. It is very conservative I know. The left table is for CCR bailout, the right is open circuit. You can see the green bar which is the stop where pure oxygen is the on-line gas.

sensor330 · 1st March 2006, 19:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by edster)

I remember talking abouthis on a previous post - cant find it though! But I think the concensus there was much like here - too many cons to balance out the pros. I decided against it, anyway. Plan, then carry enough off board bailout / deco gas! Thats my philosophy...

Damn, did I see a

?

I was having this discussion with someone the other day and can't really think of any good reason why not have one as long as it could be isolated in case of a freeflow.

Sure everybody or most everybody carries more then enough bailout on CCR dives. Even if you do carry enough B/O there is still those what if's. I for one would hate it if I got a serious case of the bends or died with 2L of O2 on my back that I could not use. I don't have one on my O2 yet but I'm adding a LP hose to my manifold with a quick connect for the Air 2 on my BCD.

Scott

edster · 1st March 2006, 21:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330)

Sure everybody or most everybody carries more then enough bailout on CCR dives. I for one would hate it if I got a serious case of the bends or died with 2L of O2 on my back that I could not use.

Scott

Surely thats not enough bailout then???

Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330)

I don't have one on my O2 yet but I'm adding a LP hose to my manifold with a quick connect for the Air 2 on my BCD.

Scott

Is that on an Inspo? Sounds like an interesting idea...

wizbang · 1st March 2006, 21:59

I have a Second stage on my blanked O2 reg. I also have a flow stop or I wouldn't have the reg there.

Soeteimes it is extra gas and sometimes we plan it in for the deco.
15 or so mins of O2 at 6m can mean the difference between taking 2x 7ls or jumping up to 2 x 11's (which are usually filled with some silly gas).

This is using high sac/rmv rates in the calcs.

If I wasn't doing deco stuff then I wouldn't (didn't) have it on.

sensor330 · 1st March 2006, 22:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by edster)

Surely thats not enough bailout then???

Is that on an Inspo? Sounds like an interesting idea...

I never said that I would use the on board 3L tanks in the B/O planning of the dive. I always carry enough O/C B/O. My point is if the s*&t ever hits the fan and for what ever reason you don't have access to or lost some of your B/O you would possibility have something to help you out of a tight place.

If something as easy as a whip coming off the manifold with a quick connect to plug into a air 2 would possibly save you from injury or death why wouldn't you do it? In my case I just have a LP whip coming from a spare port on my manifold and if I were to need it all I would have to do is disconnect the LP hose that already on the Air 2 and connect the O2.

Maybe not to conventional but at least if I where to ever had a incident I would be able to use every last bit of gas to survive, and live to dive another day perhaps.

Just to reiterate. I not not use the gas on board the Rebreather in B/O planning. I only make if available for those unforeseeable situations.

sensor330 · 1st March 2006, 23:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by edster)

Surely thats not enough bailout then???

Is that on an Inspo? Sounds like an interesting idea...

Yes I dive Inspiration

Mdemon · 2nd March 2006, 08:00

As the guy above said, how stupid would you feel OOG or bendy knowing you have untouchable oxygen on your back?

Yes, it's pros and cons. I came down on the side of wanting access to everything I carry. Because my bailout never takes into account any of the inboard stuff, and I carry offboard on the deep stuff, it's a nice little insurance policy.

I looked at adding a reg to the lp hose like Bob H did, but figured it might not deliver fast enough if I'm breathing like a steam train.

I have the O2 plumbed into the autoair, on a nice yellow hose. If I felt like it, I could inflate the wing with O2. I guess I could do semi-closed O2 with it. If the autoair freeflows, which it hasn't yet (and I've been using them for many years), then I would disconnect the GCS and problem solved. This also means I could plumb it into my BOV if I felt like it, because the autoair breathes like a 90yr old ex-miner with asthma...

PCDiver · 2nd March 2006, 08:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

If I felt like it, I could inflate the wing with O2. I guess I could do semi-closed O2 with it.

Never breath from a wing unless you disinfected it thouroughly.

Padowan · 2nd March 2006, 08:11

Now this is gonna sound stupid, but my mind was wandering thinking about this.

So (on an Inspiration) the only reason you really need OC access to onboard O2 is if you've got a total loop failure - if the loop is still intact, then you could be running either O2 breather, SCR (if the electronics are shot), or open loop if the scrubbers died, so assume the loop is lost - I could then unscrew my O2 injector button - cos the loop is already flooded - then would it be possible to breathe off the injector button, like a freeflowing regulator?

It would be a proper last ditch effort, but f you had no choise, it'd be better than nothing....

1st March 2006, 18:30	#11 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 410	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? I have a second stage on my O2 tank with a flow stop. I sits bungeed under my chin on every dive. This way on shallow non-deco dives I have an extra gas supply should I need one, resulting in double redundancy, as I dive a CK. The bailout plan on these dives is to hit the OC DSV and make my way up, then change to OC O2 for any and all safety stops. On 50m dives, this gives me at least 15 minutes of brethable gas @ 6m. And yes, I have tried this, the reg (Dacor viper) works just fine. Marry this to bailing out on the dil tank on the bottom, moving to anintermediate gas on the way up, and there is plenty to come home on. __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
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1st March 2006, 18:35	#12 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,557	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Using a gas switching block I have connected the diluent and oxygen to the input and the output goes to the open circuit regulators. When using open circuit gas, diluent can feed the regulator until the 6m stop is reached. At this point the switching block is changed over to feed pure oxygen to maximise off-gassing of your out of gas buddy. On my unit, I am using a Drager Ray manifold to also feed the BOV. Bail out tables can now be cut to make the most of the extra gas. The tables I use are at the bottom of this page. comments, critisisms and any other comments are welcome on this. The bail out table below is one I use. It is very conservative I know. The left table is for CCR bailout, the right is open circuit. You can see the green bar which is the stop where pure oxygen is the on-line gas. __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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1st March 2006, 19:25	#13 (permalink)
sensor330 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 561	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by edster) I remember talking abouthis on a previous post - cant find it though! But I think the concensus there was much like here - too many cons to balance out the pros. I decided against it, anyway. Plan, then carry enough off board bailout / deco gas! Thats my philosophy... Damn, did I see a ? I was having this discussion with someone the other day and can't really think of any good reason why not have one as long as it could be isolated in case of a freeflow. Sure everybody or most everybody carries more then enough bailout on CCR dives. Even if you do carry enough B/O there is still those what if's. I for one would hate it if I got a serious case of the bends or died with 2L of O2 on my back that I could not use. I don't have one on my O2 yet but I'm adding a LP hose to my manifold with a quick connect for the Air 2 on my BCD. Scott
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1st March 2006, 21:46	#14 (permalink)
edster Mr Cheesebox Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Avening UK Posts: 149	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330) Sure everybody or most everybody carries more then enough bailout on CCR dives. I for one would hate it if I got a serious case of the bends or died with 2L of O2 on my back that I could not use. Scott Surely thats not enough bailout then??? Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330) I don't have one on my O2 yet but I'm adding a LP hose to my manifold with a quick connect for the Air 2 on my BCD. Scott Is that on an Inspo? Sounds like an interesting idea... __________________
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1st March 2006, 21:59	#15 (permalink)
wizbang WEB MERMEN Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 385	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? I have a Second stage on my blanked O2 reg. I also have a flow stop or I wouldn't have the reg there. Soeteimes it is extra gas and sometimes we plan it in for the deco. 15 or so mins of O2 at 6m can mean the difference between taking 2x 7ls or jumping up to 2 x 11's (which are usually filled with some silly gas). This is using high sac/rmv rates in the calcs. If I wasn't doing deco stuff then I wouldn't (didn't) have it on.
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1st March 2006, 22:59	#16 (permalink)
sensor330 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 561	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by edster) Surely thats not enough bailout then??? Is that on an Inspo? Sounds like an interesting idea... I never said that I would use the on board 3L tanks in the B/O planning of the dive. I always carry enough O/C B/O. My point is if the s&t ever hits the fan and for what ever reason you don't have access to or lost some of your B/O you would possibility* have something to help you out of a tight place. If something as easy as a whip coming off the manifold with a quick connect to plug into a air 2 would possibly save you from injury or death why wouldn't you do it? In my case I just have a LP whip coming from a spare port on my manifold and if I were to need it all I would have to do is disconnect the LP hose that already on the Air 2 and connect the O2. Maybe not to conventional but at least if I where to ever had a incident I would be able to use every last bit of gas to survive, and live to dive another day perhaps. Just to reiterate. I not not use the gas on board the Rebreather in B/O planning. I only make if available for those unforeseeable situations.
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1st March 2006, 23:00	#17 (permalink)
sensor330 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 561	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by edster) Surely thats not enough bailout then??? Is that on an Inspo? Sounds like an interesting idea... Yes I dive Inspiration
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2nd March 2006, 08:00	#18 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,904	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? As the guy above said, how stupid would you feel OOG or bendy knowing you have untouchable oxygen on your back? Yes, it's pros and cons. I came down on the side of wanting access to everything I carry. Because my bailout never takes into account any of the inboard stuff, and I carry offboard on the deep stuff, it's a nice little insurance policy. I looked at adding a reg to the lp hose like Bob H did, but figured it might not deliver fast enough if I'm breathing like a steam train. I have the O2 plumbed into the autoair, on a nice yellow hose. If I felt like it, I could inflate the wing with O2. I guess I could do semi-closed O2 with it. If the autoair freeflows, which it hasn't yet (and I've been using them for many years), then I would disconnect the GCS and problem solved. This also means I could plumb it into my BOV if I felt like it, because the autoair breathes like a 90yr old ex-miner with asthma... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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2nd March 2006, 08:05	#19 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 935	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) If I felt like it, I could inflate the wing with O2. I guess I could do semi-closed O2 with it. Never breath from a wing unless you disinfected it thouroughly.
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2nd March 2006, 08:11	#20 (permalink)
Padowan Proper Boffin Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 518	Re: Access to OC Oxygen from CCR? Now this is gonna sound stupid, but my mind was wandering thinking about this. So (on an Inspiration) the only reason you really need OC access to onboard O2 is if you've got a total loop failure - if the loop is still intact, then you could be running either O2 breather, SCR (if the electronics are shot), or open loop if the scrubbers died, so assume the loop is lost - I could then unscrew my O2 injector button - cos the loop is already flooded - then would it be possible to breathe off the injector button, like a freeflowing regulator? It would be a proper last ditch effort, but f you had no choise, it'd be better than nothing.... __________________ Padowan The future's bright, the future's Yellow .....for now padowan.net - Latest Video: Scapa Flow Rebreather Diving
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