To buy a Inspiration without certification?

VTR

Ian, the dive police operate in a covert way i have had the pleasure of meeting one of them and it was not good! They are there trust me!

R

Mike[/quote]

I may be mistaken, but as far as I'm aware there is no legal requirement (unless you're getting paid) to be qualified to dive in the UK. The problem comes if you want to dive with a commercial operation (ie; when on holiday), within a club, or get gas. But there's nothing stopping anyone from buying the kit, putting it on & walking off the beach into the water.
Having said all that, I wouldn't recommend doing it & probably wouldn't dive with someone who isn't, or can't prove their qual.

Cheers

Giles

schford

But neither do I wish any non trained nupty to be able to buy a rebreather kill him self and have every one proclaim it was yet another Rebreather death!

A balance has to be struck....

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Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law

The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had.

Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use

Genesis

Yes, there does.

Who's fault is it when the proclaiming starts? Those who proclaim or the poor sop who's fishfood?

Let's be honest here - if you drink yourself to death does anyone care? How many hundreds of thousands do so every year? You probably know a few who are on this course of action.

Ditto for smoking.

To a not-small extent we are responsible for this. We put forward a public "face" on diving that says you must take this class and that or you will die. Then, when someone does die, people look at us and say "see, you told us that poor SOB was going to buy it and he DID!" Then we wring our hands about how awful it is that the general public actually took us up on our own gambit as we squirm in our self-made trap!

How about we change the paradigm to something like this:

Diving is inherently hazardous. Its bloody well obvious, given that we're putting on anywhere from 50 to over 100lbs of crap on our back in order to do it - without which our life expectancy would be 4 minutes down there; anyone with a room temperature IQ can see that.

Nonetheless, we choose to do this because we enjoy it, just as you enjoy your beer, cigarette, unsafe sex, riding a motorcycle, sitting on your ass watching TV instead of exercising, riding a bicycle or playing golf - all of which kill more people by far than diving does.

Life is all about risk. We insist that we be left alone in our calibration of risk and reward, just as you do in your daily life. Our risk is uniquely personal, in that a diver exposes nobody to risk who does not choose to be there with him or her of their own volition - much unlike driving a car or flying an airplane, where innocents often become the victims of someone's bad decision or simple bad luck.

If we perish today while diving, it will have happened while we were doing something we truly love, all the way up until that final moment.

Can you say the same about what you did with your life today?

All we ask is that you leave us alone; in return, we will respect your right to allocate risk and reward in your personal life as well. Such is the essence of a free society.

This problem can be solved - by us - by taking up the above position and proclaiming it loudly.

It will never be solved by "more training" or "higher standards". For evidence of this just look at the record of the last couple of years - some of the most highly-qualified divers who have been in the water are now deceased. They died because, at the end of the day, the above proposition is the correct one.

We'll stop having problems like this when we clean our own house and adopt a position that conforms with reality. Until then there will always be a reason for someone to take a cheap shot at our right to go diving with the argument that "your safety record is not good enough", because we continue to make a claim that is indefensible and objectively false - that we can make this activity "safe" if only you follow some set of rules.

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"A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American."
http://www.denninger.net
http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket

moley

Its a frightening thing this so-called 'diver training' I think. Being in a rigidly enforced and monitored training world where standards are of paramount importance,(Motorcycle Training), as is the quality and delivery of instruction, as is the the availability and maintainance of equiptment......I wonder sometimes at the quality of training offered by these so called training agencies, and in particular how some of these so called 'instructers have the balls to charge for their services with a clear concience.

Dont get me wrong here, I have completed my fair share of training courses in the dive world and have met some excellent, well qualified and immensely credible and skilled Instructors who take pride in imparting their knowledge to others in a freindly and constructive manner who I am proud to call friends.
Long may they reign!!!!

I have also met some real worms who's own experience is 'murky' or 'well padded' to say the least and who frankly are just a little bit too up their own arses to be healthy, they obvoiusly have little or no actuall teaching skills, and I often wonder just who the hell they think they are!

There are also those sad individuals who think they have a god given right to critisice and 'police' the actions of others....Any one ever heard the term...'stroke'....being aimed at a fellow diver?......what the hell is that all about???

I frankly agree that once your initial diver training is completed on O/C, no one then expects you to requalify just becouse you change your regulators and BCD....so what the hell is it with these agencies that insist on a 2-3 day crossover from one unit to another, you pay big money to complete the same basic series of excersises, fin around behind an 'instructor', and then if you can 'prove' yourself you can have another 'gold card' to add to your useless pile.

I would like to think that any individual that has worked his/her way into a CCR and has completed their initial training should be allowed to do what the hell they please.....even British law says that having gained a full licence one can ride any size and type of motorcycle....

An instruction manual should suffice!!!...We are not idiots, and drawing the parallell one last time, why are we treated as such in the diving world.

As to the dive police....I agree, they are all around us, we just dont know it!!

Well back to my bowl of Cadbury's Dairy Milk........remember guys and gals, in the words of Sigourny Weaver....'Inside your helmet no one can hear you scream!!'

Ya all have a nice day now!!!

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You think I know nothing.....and I do!!!

RonMicjan

I got a ticket from the PADI police once...

this guy had made up a laminated citation stating a violation of the recreational dive limits, he overheard me chatting with a buddy right after a dive to 285 up in canada and presented me with the ticket. pretty fliping funny, I asked him why he didnt come down and give it to me during the violation. The ticket said I had to pay the nearest PADI representative a $100 fine, so I pulled out my PADI instructor card and said I would do just that.


I have often thought about making up a Stainless Steel badge that reads Scuba Police so I can hand out tickets for "impersonating a diver"

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Ron
"Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley.


www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.

esc

I can buy a Ferrari without driving license and if I crash with it and kill myself, it is labeled as car accident and there is a note that driver did not have a license and that it probably played a part.

I can also buy a motorcycle of any size and drive it legally with my old AB card that was issued in 80's for everyone who completed driving license with car. I have never driven a motorcycle and ofcourse that would be kinda good material for next darwin award for me to buy superbike and blast off to wilderness. Most of the motorcycle accidents in Finland are actually happening to people aged 35-45 at current time and usually with new, powerful bikes. Still, nobody is blaming that the bike did it. It was the user. Conclusion is, that they propably didn't have a skill to handle such thing.

I don't understand why rebreathers should be any different. Yes, another rebreather death. So what? People are ultimately responsible for their own actions and that is how it should be. Rebreather users just seem way too sensitive and claim "it hurts the image of rebreather diving" or such nonsense. Is Ferrari image tarnished because one guy drove 300km/h with his Ferrari Enzo and crashed it half, killing himself? Don't think so. Is Suzuki image tarnished because some guy just bought it and didnt know how to drive one and killed himself? Don't think so.

As for those fearing "goverment regulations to come" etc. There has been literally thousands of OC deaths and still, most countries (or all?) do not legally require you to have a diving C card to dive or purchase equipment. Not to fill tanks either.

All these "regulations" if there are any are shop keepers "self policy crap" that mainly pisses me off and is a problem for some other users who need compressed air like paint ball gamers, etc who are turned off from these "self policing" dive shops cause they dont have diving license...

Sorry but usually this "self policy" (meaning community/shops/manufacturers) just turn to total BS.

/esc

EDIT:
As for original question. I hope it is true! I personally think everyone should be able to buy one with waiver after being told the possible consequenses for actions using said device without training.
EDIT ends.

woody

Frankly mate, I totally concur and agree with your cunning prose. Tourist not explorer by any chance? Protectors of the Queens ships and freshwater dives??? He he

That should have been a saucer of milk not CDM.

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Not eloquent enough for a smart arse signature!

nigelh

Of course I'm in the UK where as an Amateur, unpaid instructor I have trained motorcyclists for an advanced test normally taken with a retired Police Instructor but I don't need any qualifications to dive.

I'd love to run into a member of the 'Dive Police'. I'd laugh myself silly. The nearest I've come to that was a delightful young lady from the HSE who might be the Wrath of God to a profesional but when she knew we weren't a school relaxed and was politely interested in what we were doing (wreck mapping).

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nigelh

edster

Back on topic - check with AP what they told him....

just to cover your arse , as we say

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