How Big do I need my Wing

SteveL · 17th February 2006, 13:24

Hello all,
Have just managed to pick a new Colkan 15.5

after diving an YBOD for the past few years. But it needs a back plate and a wing.

I have tracked down a few back plate ideas but the wing is another problem altogether. So many choices .... and so many sizes. Currently tending towards a 60lb dual bladder OMS wing - planning some deep dives where bailouts would be two 9L or maybe two 12L for the really deep stuff. Given that most of this type of diving is with a drysuit I just dont see the need for 100lb wings and maybe something smaller would suffice. What about the bungie cords - look like a nice way to keep it all tidy to me - yes I know there is a camp that says they are death traps - but are they really???

Diverite, NAS and Oxycheq have some nice stuff as well but the OMS stuff "looks" like the go. It has 1000 denier outer material, I see the deepoutdoors stuff has 1600 denier - is this a big issue or does that just fall into the "it has bigger numbers so it must be better catagory" The APV wing on the YBOD has been hammered in a lot of wrecks over the past years and is holding up very well - am I off the mark with a 60lb OMS??

Regards,

Steve L

hchoat · 17th February 2006, 13:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by SteveL)

Hello all,
Have just managed to pick a new Colkan 15.5

after diving an YBOD for the past few years. But it needs a back plate and a wing.

I have tracked down a few back plate ideas but the wing is another problem altogether. So many choices .... and so many sizes. Currently tending towards a 60lb dual bladder OMS wing - planning some deep dives where bailouts would be two 9L or maybe two 12L for the really deep stuff. Given that most of this type of diving is with a drysuit I just dont see the need for 100lb wings and maybe something smaller would suffice. What about the bungie cords - look like a nice way to keep it all tidy to me - yes I know there is a camp that says they are death traps - but are they really???

Diverite, NAS and Oxycheq have some nice stuff as well but the OMS stuff "looks" like the go. It has 1000 denier outer material, I see the deepoutdoors stuff has 1600 denier - is this a big issue or does that just fall into the "it has bigger numbers so it must be better catagory" The APV wing on the YBOD has been hammered in a lot of wrecks over the past years and is holding up very well - am I off the mark with a 60lb OMS??

Regards,

Steve L

WRT the bungied wings- are they a "deathtrap"? No. They do, however have a couple of issues you might want to be aware of.

First off- when you dump gas from this type of wing, the bungie compresses (exactly as it is supposed to), the problem is.... it compresses and forms little "pockets" which trap gas in the wing. It can be very difficult to dump all the gas from the wing.

Secondly- you don't mention whether or not you are looking at a dual wing type of system, but I'll comment on this anyway, since most of the OMS bungied style wings are dual systems. You will now have a second inflation hose to deal with- you must find a place to stow it, and, should you choose to dive with an lp hose connected to it, you then have to be aware that the schrader valve may at some point fail open (as they are want to do from time to time). Should you choose to dive with the lp inflate hose disconnected, you avoid the auto- inflation issue, but now should you need to use the redundant wing, you have to connect that hose to do so. Regardless, as you will be diving dry, it's a little bit of overkill.

Best,
Heather

jknights · 17th February 2006, 13:51

I had a OMS Tech wing on my YBOD and it did not hold me as high in the water as I liked.
I replaced it with the standard Inspiration wing that APD supplies and this is much better.

My OMS wing was fitted on another YBOD and the new owner (a friend of mine) reports the same but says that the wing is better as it has additional lift which he requires especially when carrying stage cylinders.

AMW · 17th February 2006, 13:55

I have a Dive rite classic that gives plenty of lift (19Kg).
Andrew.

koputai · 17th February 2006, 20:13

Hi Steve,
On the 15 I've always used a Dive-Rite Transpac II (very old) and a set of Dive-Rite Dual Rec Wings. One bladder on its own is heaps of lift for the unit.
I don't use a backplate. I like to keep the unit pretty snug on my back.

Cheers,
Jason.

CCR-Wrecker · 17th February 2006, 23:50

I've been using a OMS bungied 60# wing for about 2 seasons. No problems to note. I ALWAYS carry more than enough bailout, usually al80(bottom)+al40(o2) the wing supports it with no problem. Hope this helps.
Andy
BTW-single bladder.

Fred Evans · 18th February 2006, 05:15

Should you choose to dive with the lp inflate hose disconnected, you avoid the auto- inflation issue
Best,
Heather[/quote]

Errr Heather, if the shreader valve fails its only an issue if the hose is disconnected in which case you are venting gas. If its connected the shreader valve is open anyway and you are relying on the inflate button. Auto inflate is caused by a faulty (cruddy) inflate valve not the shreader. The reason for not fitting the second feed hose is to avoid mistakenly putting gas in both wings.

I have dived with them completely removed before on deep dives to see if the flow was better .... it wasn't much better so used CEJN or Air2 instead (which is all Sartek do to produce the ‘Super Inflator’).

Personally I would recommend 60 lb for open ocean diving for the sort of configurations you are talking about, I find you need this to keep your head up in rough seas, but then I wear a wetsuit. I use 80 lb for very heavy kit. I don’t know if I read it correctly but someone seemed to imply that you could get more that the nameplate lift from a double bladder wing, you cannot due to the limitations of the outer cover. I clip both of my inflate hoses back along the side of the wing vs over the shoulder. They have velcro (Octo reg style) attachments if I cannot reach the shoulder OPV dump for some reason.

The best bet is to borrow a friends kit and try it out, there are so many dual Rec and dual 60Lb OMS around that it shouldn’t be hard to find someone who will lend you one. I would offer but my location might be an issue.

Regards, Fred

Fred Evans · 18th February 2006, 05:35

Oh forgot to mention Steve ... Kevin Denlay is your man, he is in your time zone (I think) and has been diving a 15.5 for many years (as he is so old), he can provide you with a lot of insights into configuration. He has a neat bailout configuration. Dr. Mike (aka Dr. Deep) is another good source of first hand info.

Regards, Fred

JS1scuba · 18th February 2006, 05:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by SteveL)

Hello all,

Steve L

Steve,

Take a look at the APEKS WTX-60 wing -- its very clean, really robust even though it's light weight, has super fast drain. It's a long design so your 15.5 will rest nicely. IF you wanted to go with a harness similar to the original 15.5 ones the WTX softpack harness will work great. It has open shoulder design so you can slide weights up on shoulders and it has integrated weight pockets if you need weight near the waist. It's worth a look.

http://www.apeks.co.uk/products/prod...sp?Product=WTX

and wing

http://www.apeks.co.uk/products/prod...p?Product=WTX6 and WTX8 Buoyancy Cells&Category=Buoyancy Control

Get these from APEKS dealers or in the US from Aqualung Dealers.

The stuff is bullet proof.

Cheers

SteveL · 18th February 2006, 09:10

Thanks Guys,

I was in the Java Sea last November with Kevin D we had some good diving. He Was wearing ear muffs last time I saw him on deco, with a watherproof MP3 player. Pretty up to date for an old bloke!

Yes we talked extensivly (even argued a bit) - Looks like something in the 60lb - 80 range is the go. I have found some Dive rites Superwings here in Sydney aparent at the right price (aren't they Guy

)

Currently I have set the unit up with my old (10+ years) Zeagle with no back plate. A bit of a bastardisation but it is working. Reasonably well.

Principally looking at the back plate to hold the breather then the harness to hold everything else. I dont want to overload the case being fibreglass. A torch and stuff like that OK but not heavy cylinders.

Will keep you all posted. Thanks for all the input.

Steve

17th February 2006, 13:24	#1 (permalink)
SteveL Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 221	How Big do I need my Wing Hello all, Have just managed to pick a new Colkan 15.5 after diving an YBOD for the past few years. But it needs a back plate and a wing. I have tracked down a few back plate ideas but the wing is another problem altogether. So many choices .... and so many sizes. Currently tending towards a 60lb dual bladder OMS wing - planning some deep dives where bailouts would be two 9L or maybe two 12L for the really deep stuff. Given that most of this type of diving is with a drysuit I just dont see the need for 100lb wings and maybe something smaller would suffice. What about the bungie cords - look like a nice way to keep it all tidy to me - yes I know there is a camp that says they are death traps - but are they really??? Diverite, NAS and Oxycheq have some nice stuff as well but the OMS stuff "looks" like the go. It has 1000 denier outer material, I see the deepoutdoors stuff has 1600 denier - is this a big issue or does that just fall into the "it has bigger numbers so it must be better catagory" The APV wing on the YBOD has been hammered in a lot of wrecks over the past years and is holding up very well - am I off the mark with a 60lb OMS?? Regards, Steve L
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17th February 2006, 13:38	#2 (permalink)
hchoat Resident Selkie Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pensacola, FL- USA Posts: 221	Re: How Big do I need my Wing Quote: (Originally Posted by SteveL) Hello all, Have just managed to pick a new Colkan 15.5 after diving an YBOD for the past few years. But it needs a back plate and a wing. I have tracked down a few back plate ideas but the wing is another problem altogether. So many choices .... and so many sizes. Currently tending towards a 60lb dual bladder OMS wing - planning some deep dives where bailouts would be two 9L or maybe two 12L for the really deep stuff. Given that most of this type of diving is with a drysuit I just dont see the need for 100lb wings and maybe something smaller would suffice. What about the bungie cords - look like a nice way to keep it all tidy to me - yes I know there is a camp that says they are death traps - but are they really??? Diverite, NAS and Oxycheq have some nice stuff as well but the OMS stuff "looks" like the go. It has 1000 denier outer material, I see the deepoutdoors stuff has 1600 denier - is this a big issue or does that just fall into the "it has bigger numbers so it must be better catagory" The APV wing on the YBOD has been hammered in a lot of wrecks over the past years and is holding up very well - am I off the mark with a 60lb OMS?? Regards, Steve L WRT the bungied wings- are they a "deathtrap"? No. They do, however have a couple of issues you might want to be aware of. First off- when you dump gas from this type of wing, the bungie compresses (exactly as it is supposed to), the problem is.... it compresses and forms little "pockets" which trap gas in the wing. It can be very difficult to dump all the gas from the wing. Secondly- you don't mention whether or not you are looking at a dual wing type of system, but I'll comment on this anyway, since most of the OMS bungied style wings are dual systems. You will now have a second inflation hose to deal with- you must find a place to stow it, and, should you choose to dive with an lp hose connected to it, you then have to be aware that the schrader valve may at some point fail open (as they are want to do from time to time). Should you choose to dive with the lp inflate hose disconnected, you avoid the auto- inflation issue, but now should you need to use the redundant wing, you have to connect that hose to do so. Regardless, as you will be diving dry, it's a little bit of overkill. Best, Heather __________________ Duct tape is like the force... it has a light side and dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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17th February 2006, 13:51	#3 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: How Big do I need my Wing I had a OMS Tech wing on my YBOD and it did not hold me as high in the water as I liked. I replaced it with the standard Inspiration wing that APD supplies and this is much better. My OMS wing was fitted on another YBOD and the new owner (a friend of mine) reports the same but says that the wing is better as it has additional lift which he requires especially when carrying stage cylinders. Last edited by jknights : 17th February 2006 at 14:00.
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17th February 2006, 13:55	#4 (permalink)
AMW Technical caver Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cam ,Glos, England Posts: 170	Re: How Big do I need my Wing I have a Dive rite classic that gives plenty of lift (19Kg). Andrew. __________________ AMW Blog (very poor effort :-) http://a-m-ward.blogspot.com/ http://amward.myblogsite.com/ Lot ,France cave diving sites and area resources. www.lot46.com Caving and cave diving photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/amward/
(Online)

17th February 2006, 20:13	#5 (permalink)
koputai Subsea Systems Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 309	Re: How Big do I need my Wing Hi Steve, On the 15 I've always used a Dive-Rite Transpac II (very old) and a set of Dive-Rite Dual Rec Wings. One bladder on its own is heaps of lift for the unit. I don't use a backplate. I like to keep the unit pretty snug on my back. Cheers, Jason.
(Online)

17th February 2006, 23:50	#6 (permalink)
CCR-Wrecker Classic KISSer #276 Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Posts: 206	Re: How Big do I need my Wing I've been using a OMS bungied 60# wing for about 2 seasons. No problems to note. I ALWAYS carry more than enough bailout, usually al80(bottom)+al40(o2) the wing supports it with no problem. Hope this helps. Andy BTW-single bladder.
(Offline)

18th February 2006, 05:15	#7 (permalink)
Fred Evans Old Bull Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indonesia, Jakarta Posts: 51	Re: How Big do I need my Wing Should you choose to dive with the lp inflate hose disconnected, you avoid the auto- inflation issue Best, Heather[/quote] Errr Heather, if the shreader valve fails its only an issue if the hose is disconnected in which case you are venting gas. If its connected the shreader valve is open anyway and you are relying on the inflate button. Auto inflate is caused by a faulty (cruddy) inflate valve not the shreader. The reason for not fitting the second feed hose is to avoid mistakenly putting gas in both wings. I have dived with them completely removed before on deep dives to see if the flow was better .... it wasn't much better so used CEJN or Air2 instead (which is all Sartek do to produce the ‘Super Inflator’). Personally I would recommend 60 lb for open ocean diving for the sort of configurations you are talking about, I find you need this to keep your head up in rough seas, but then I wear a wetsuit. I use 80 lb for very heavy kit. I don’t know if I read it correctly but someone seemed to imply that you could get more that the nameplate lift from a double bladder wing, you cannot due to the limitations of the outer cover. I clip both of my inflate hoses back along the side of the wing vs over the shoulder. They have velcro (Octo reg style) attachments if I cannot reach the shoulder OPV dump for some reason. The best bet is to borrow a friends kit and try it out, there are so many dual Rec and dual 60Lb OMS around that it shouldn’t be hard to find someone who will lend you one. I would offer but my location might be an issue. Regards, Fred Last edited by Fred Evans : 18th February 2006 at 05:21. Reason: Misnamed Wing
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18th February 2006, 05:35	#8 (permalink)
Fred Evans Old Bull Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indonesia, Jakarta Posts: 51	Re: How Big do I need my Wing Oh forgot to mention Steve ... Kevin Denlay is your man, he is in your time zone (I think) and has been diving a 15.5 for many years (as he is so old), he can provide you with a lot of insights into configuration. He has a neat bailout configuration. Dr. Mike (aka Dr. Deep) is another good source of first hand info. Regards, Fred
(Offline)

18th February 2006, 05:53	#9 (permalink)
JS1scuba RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss MK 15.X Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ - USA Posts: 417	Re: How Big do I need my Wing Quote: (Originally Posted by SteveL) Hello all, Steve L Steve, Take a look at the APEKS WTX-60 wing -- its very clean, really robust even though it's light weight, has super fast drain. It's a long design so your 15.5 will rest nicely. IF you wanted to go with a harness similar to the original 15.5 ones the WTX softpack harness will work great. It has open shoulder design so you can slide weights up on shoulders and it has integrated weight pockets if you need weight near the waist. It's worth a look. http://www.apeks.co.uk/products/prod...sp?Product=WTX and wing http://www.apeks.co.uk/products/prod...p?Product=WTX6 and WTX8 Buoyancy Cells&Category=Buoyancy Control Get these from APEKS dealers or in the US from Aqualung Dealers. The stuff is bullet proof. Cheers __________________ Joel Silverstein, VP COO Tech Diving Limited a Division of Scuba Training and Technology Inc. http://www.nautilusdiveplanner.com FREE NAUTILUS DIVE PLANNER DEMO - REGISTER HERE KISS # 275
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18th February 2006, 09:10	#10 (permalink)
SteveL Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 221	Re: How Big do I need my Wing Thanks Guys, I was in the Java Sea last November with Kevin D we had some good diving. He Was wearing ear muffs last time I saw him on deco, with a watherproof MP3 player. Pretty up to date for an old bloke! Yes we talked extensivly (even argued a bit) - Looks like something in the 60lb - 80 range is the go. I have found some Dive rites Superwings here in Sydney aparent at the right price (aren't they Guy ) Currently I have set the unit up with my old (10+ years) Zeagle with no back plate. A bit of a bastardisation but it is working. Reasonably well. Principally looking at the back plate to hold the breather then the harness to hold everything else. I dont want to overload the case being fibreglass. A torch and stuff like that OK but not heavy cylinders. Will keep you all posted. Thanks for all the input. Steve
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