Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week?

bubnotbub · 12th February 2006, 18:13

Hi,
I just received an advertising message about an Inspiration course from 0 to normoxyc Trimix in 3 weeks.

You seems this is possible?

You does not seem one too much fast didactic progression?

Best

Aldo

***Decodiver*** · 12th February 2006, 18:15

I think that is too much too soon.

People should slow down, what is the rush?

The wrecks are still gonna be there.........

***Beanie*** · 12th February 2006, 18:21

Your joking me right Three weeks!!!

After three weeks of inspo diving I still didn't know what I was doing, saying that after 2+ years I'm still coming to terms with it.

I know its all

but i think that's a little extreme, and verging on dangerous, its not as if CCR diving is inherently safe.

Nick uk. · 12th February 2006, 19:37

It depends i suppose what you'r going to do with it. I can remember diving OC 50/60mt. in air, it was normal!

But now we all know that it is much safer to wack some helium in your mix, than not.

What i'm trying to say is 'maybe' if an individual would be diving to the max 50mt. with an air dill, it might not be so wrong to let them 'wack' some helium into their dill!

We musn't forget that many people who pass to CCR have allready extended expierience on OC, including T/Mix, and gas planning, and management skills don't change that much between OC and CC.

That said, i wouldn't recomend anyone to venture into territory which would 'require' a significant %helium mix after just 3 weeks!

Genesis · 12th February 2006, 19:42

Why is normoxic Trimix any different than air as a diluent?

Both have the same mod.

Yeah, yeah, you're narced out of your gourd at 150 on air. Ok. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and still breathing.

I don't get the purpose of this so-called "Restriction".

Let me see if I can put this more succinctly - "You want me to dive on a LESS safe gas mixture?"

I don't think so - there is no argument for not using normoxic gas for any dive below 80-100' on a CCR, since there's no material cost issue any longer as there is on OC.

I can see a "level" system dealing with the oxygen content in the mix (e.g. a different cert level for normoxic and hypoxic dil) but give no quarter who try to tell me to dive a less safe gas mix unless I spend more money (or time.)

***Decodiver*** · 12th February 2006, 20:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.)

We musn't forget that many people who pass to CCR have allready extended expierience on OC, including T/Mix, and gas planning, and management skills don't change that much between OC and CC.

Nick,

Not having a go, however, OC skills count for jackshite on CCR, I know of a number of highly experienced people, one a personal friend, with more OC dives than most people on this board on trimix, who died on CCR.

Two completely different ways of diving, and when people wake up and accept this, the world of CCR diving will be a safer place.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Nick uk. · 12th February 2006, 20:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Nick,

Not having a go, however, OC skills count for jackshite on CCR, I know of a number of highly experienced people, one a personal friend, with more OC dives than most people on this board on trimix, who died on CCR.

Two completely different ways of diving, and when people wake up and accept this, the world of CCR diving will be a safer place.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

I absolutely agree, but how many skills actually change when diving with an air dill. as supposed to a T/Mix dill. ?

I think it's more of a question of physiological changes at depth, rather than the helium in our mix that make the diffrence, and therefore becomes more imperitive that you can react accordingly in a split second, because it might be all you have, and this is where the time and expierience comes into play. But it's not to say that someone could use T/Mix, in a safe way after a short lengh of time and may even benefit from having, in 'some' cases a safer mix other than air.

The problem is self controll and knowing ones limmits and diving within them!

Nad · 12th February 2006, 21:11

Quote:

The problem is self controll and knowing ones limmits and diving within them!

Yep, this is the point and the problem how many people could accept personal limitated self control and limits?

I think First Module to 40m with air as dil it's enough for beginners.
As Dave wrote with CCR the skills are a bit different and also the gas planning.

The sale of firs Module up to Normoxic (60m)at the same time it is just question of speculation and business, not safety.

The main problem is that while the rebreather diving is increasing, unless the education curve follows it, there will be more incidents avoidable or fatal.
We have to be careful, is going to be easy nowadays to became instructor...

Just my concept, of course

Nad

Nick uk. · 12th February 2006, 21:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nad)

Yep, this is the point and the problem how many people could accept personal limitated self control and limits?

I think First Module to 40m with air as dil it's enough for beginners.
As Dave wrote with CCR the skills are a bit different and also the gas planning.

The sale of firs Module up to Normoxic (60m)at the same time it is just question of speculation and business, not safety.

The main problem is that while the rebreather diving is increasing, unless the education curve follows it, there will be more incidents avoidable or fatal.
We have to be careful, is going to be easy nowadays to became instructor...

Just my concept, of course

Nad

Yeh, i know what you mean, a freind of mine who owns and runs one of the local dive shops near me, is off for the next couple of weekends to become an Azzimuth 'Instructor', nothing wrong with that you might think! But to this day he has never had a rebreather on his back, let alone dived with one!!

Ok, he's an excellent diver and instructor OC, and any one can learn theory, but how any one has the cheek to 'teach' someone when they 'can't' speak from 'experience' is beyond me!

Doesn't say much for the organization which allows it either, at least the YBOD you have to have 100hrs before you can become an instructor, still not much, but it's better than nothing.

bubnotbub · 12th February 2006, 21:35

Nad I totally agree.

I would like to add same concept,
but i known my limit on english language.

All the best

Aldo

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nad)

Yep, this is the point and the problem how many people could accept personal limitated self control and limits?

I think First Module to 40m with air as dil it's enough for beginners.
As Dave wrote with CCR the skills are a bit different and also the gas planning.

The sale of firs Module up to Normoxic (60m)at the same time it is just question of speculation and business, not safety.

The main problem is that while the rebreather diving is increasing, unless the education curve follows it, there will be more incidents avoidable or fatal.
We have to be careful, is going to be easy nowadays to became instructor...

Just my concept, of course

Nad

12th February 2006, 18:13	#1 (permalink)
bubnotbub Silent diver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: France Italy Posts: 386	Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Hi, I just received an advertising message about an Inspiration course from 0 to normoxyc Trimix in 3 weeks. You seems this is possible? You does not seem one too much fast didactic progression? Best Aldo __________________ Aldo Ferrucci *Trimix and Rebreather IT* *Expedition Leader* *www.bubnotbub.com* I like bubbles only in my glass of Champagne
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12th February 2006, 18:15	#2 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? I think that is too much too soon. People should slow down, what is the rush? The wrecks are still gonna be there......... __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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12th February 2006, 18:21	#3 (permalink)
*Beanie* Politeness officer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,163	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Your joking me right Three weeks!!! After three weeks of inspo diving I still didn't know what I was doing, saying that after 2+ years I'm still coming to terms with it. I know its all but i think that's a little extreme, and verging on dangerous, its not as if CCR diving is inherently safe. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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12th February 2006, 19:37	#4 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? It depends i suppose what you'r going to do with it. I can remember diving OC 50/60mt. in air, it was normal! But now we all know that it is much safer to wack some helium in your mix, than not. What i'm trying to say is 'maybe' if an individual would be diving to the max 50mt. with an air dill, it might not be so wrong to let them 'wack' some helium into their dill! We musn't forget that many people who pass to CCR have allready extended expierience on OC, including T/Mix, and gas planning, and management skills don't change that much between OC and CC. That said, i wouldn't recomend anyone to venture into territory which would 'require' a significant %helium mix after just 3 weeks! __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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12th February 2006, 19:42	#5 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,394	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Why is normoxic Trimix any different than air as a diluent? Both have the same mod. Yeah, yeah, you're narced out of your gourd at 150 on air. Ok. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and still breathing. I don't get the purpose of this so-called "Restriction". Let me see if I can put this more succinctly - "You want me to dive on a LESS safe gas mixture?" I don't think so - there is no argument for not using normoxic gas for any dive below 80-100' on a CCR, since there's no material cost issue any longer as there is on OC. I can see a "level" system dealing with the oxygen content in the mix (e.g. a different cert level for normoxic and hypoxic dil) but give no quarter who try to tell me to dive a less safe gas mix unless I spend more money (or time.) __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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12th February 2006, 20:42	#6 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Careful! Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.) We musn't forget that many people who pass to CCR have allready extended expierience on OC, including T/Mix, and gas planning, and management skills don't change that much between OC and CC. Nick, Not having a go, however, OC skills count for jackshite on CCR, I know of a number of highly experienced people, one a personal friend, with more OC dives than most people on this board on trimix, who died on CCR. Two completely different ways of diving, and when people wake up and accept this, the world of CCR diving will be a safer place. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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12th February 2006, 20:50	#7 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Careful! Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Nick, Not having a go, however, OC skills count for jackshite on CCR, I know of a number of highly experienced people, one a personal friend, with more OC dives than most people on this board on trimix, who died on CCR. Two completely different ways of diving, and when people wake up and accept this, the world of CCR diving will be a safer place. Cheers, Dave Cooper. I absolutely agree, but how many skills actually change when diving with an air dill. as supposed to a T/Mix dill. ? I think it's more of a question of physiological changes at depth, rather than the helium in our mix that make the diffrence, and therefore becomes more imperitive that you can react accordingly in a split second, because it might be all you have, and this is where the time and expierience comes into play. But it's not to say that someone could use T/Mix, in a safe way after a short lengh of time and may even benefit from having, in 'some' cases a safer mix other than air. The problem is self controll and knowing ones limmits and diving within them! __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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12th February 2006, 21:11	#8 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 941	Re: Careful! Quote: The problem is self controll and knowing ones limmits and diving within them! Yep, this is the point and the problem how many people could accept personal limitated self control and limits? I think First Module to 40m with air as dil it's enough for beginners. As Dave wrote with CCR the skills are a bit different and also the gas planning. The sale of firs Module up to Normoxic (60m)at the same time it is just question of speculation and business, not safety. The main problem is that while the rebreather diving is increasing, unless the education curve follows it, there will be more incidents avoidable or fatal. We have to be careful, is going to be easy nowadays to became instructor... Just my concept, of course Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
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12th February 2006, 21:17	#9 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Careful! Quote: (Originally Posted by Nad) Yep, this is the point and the problem how many people could accept personal limitated self control and limits? I think First Module to 40m with air as dil it's enough for beginners. As Dave wrote with CCR the skills are a bit different and also the gas planning. The sale of firs Module up to Normoxic (60m)at the same time it is just question of speculation and business, not safety. The main problem is that while the rebreather diving is increasing, unless the education curve follows it, there will be more incidents avoidable or fatal. We have to be careful, is going to be easy nowadays to became instructor... Just my concept, of course Nad Yeh, i know what you mean, a freind of mine who owns and runs one of the local dive shops near me, is off for the next couple of weekends to become an Azzimuth 'Instructor', nothing wrong with that you might think! But to this day he has never had a rebreather on his back, let alone dived with one!! Ok, he's an excellent diver and instructor OC, and any one can learn theory, but how any one has the cheek to 'teach' someone when they 'can't' speak from 'experience' is beyond me! Doesn't say much for the organization which allows it either, at least the YBOD you have to have 100hrs before you can become an instructor, still not much, but it's better than nothing. __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com Last edited by Nick uk. : 12th February 2006 at 21:21.
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12th February 2006, 21:35	#10 (permalink)
bubnotbub Silent diver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: France Italy Posts: 386	Re: Careful! Nad I totally agree. I would like to add same concept, but i known my limit on english language. All the best Aldo Quote: (Originally Posted by Nad) Yep, this is the point and the problem how many people could accept personal limitated self control and limits? I think First Module to 40m with air as dil it's enough for beginners. As Dave wrote with CCR the skills are a bit different and also the gas planning. The sale of firs Module up to Normoxic (60m)at the same time it is just question of speculation and business, not safety. The main problem is that while the rebreather diving is increasing, unless the education curve follows it, there will be more incidents avoidable or fatal. We have to be careful, is going to be easy nowadays to became instructor... Just my concept, of course Nad __________________ Aldo Ferrucci *Trimix and Rebreather IT* *Expedition Leader* *www.bubnotbub.com* I like bubbles only in my glass of Champagne
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