Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week?

Mdemon · 13th February 2006, 09:29

It depends if the diver has OC trimix experience and what diving is going to happen during those three weeks. That could be a lot of intense diving.

This seems to be about the use of normoxic trimix, not increasing the depth necessarily. Therefore we are talking about using a lower END, therefore a "safer" gas, because for a newbie to the Box you need to keep your wits about you. OC counts for very little, as Decodiver pointed out.

Except... OC trimix gives you the theory. So the diver would know about the planning and the stops and deco etc etc.

What will the remaining issue be? Well, obviously, increased bottom time will affect bailout and I guess on this three week course that would be planned for and taken.

I believe PSAI are looking at (or now do) letting normoxic mixes be used instead of an air dil for the same depths (I think you do an extra module - Dave, how does this work please?). Excellent - clear heads all round and an acknowledgement that helium on the Box is good and cheap.

If there is a problem with this then it's to do with what comes next. There would be the temptation to add a richer mix and go deeper sooner. So it all comes down to the self-discipline of the diver...

Nick uk. · 13th February 2006, 10:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by bubnotbub)

Nad I totally agree.

I would like to add same concept,
but i known my limit on english language.

All the best

Aldo

Put it in Italian, the really cool people can speak Italian as well.

Mark Chase · 13th February 2006, 10:48

Three weeks, pah thats nothing I was diving the safer gas after a mear 11 hours on the unit

I considered doing 100 hours in the 30 -40m range narked stupid and barely able to cope with the task loading of my new toy. The warm fuzzy narcosis would no doubt have kept me blissfully unaware of how close to death i was.

However in the end I decided to be all dead hard and rock an role and actualy dive with a clear head thus fully aware of just how near to death I was at all times.

Mind you this did give me the small advantage of being able to deal with the problems that arose which is an unfortunate by product of diving that dead hard rock and role gas.

Oh an while I am in rant mode

Whats all this bollocks about years of OC diving wont help with diving a CCR. What absolute rubbish. Years of OC diving will (or at least should) make you confident in the water and there for less stressed and more able to cope with other tasks, it will give you an understanding of how buoyancy control works and what you have to do to achieve it in terms of weighting and trim. This will make the transition of control via breathing over to pinpoint use of the wing and depth changes used in CCR diving.

To a diver with years of OC trimix deco experience, bailing out to OC from depth and doing gas switching ascents will be second nature. When I first started on CCR the second I had bailed out to OC I was back in my comfort zone. A competent OC diver should understand PP02 and oxygen in general and is likely to understand trimix as well.

A competent diver could take a season to adjust to the subtletis and practices of diving a CCR and may or may not ever achieve excellence on one. Lets face it most divers who can only get in the water a couple of times a month will never achieve excellence on anything.

The facts are, that very experienced CCR divers die diving CCRs and very experienced OC divers die diving OC. Its a dangerous sport especially at the deep trimix level.

ATB

Mark Chase

Mdemon · 13th February 2006, 14:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Three weeks, pah thats nothing I was diving the safer gas after a mear 11 hours on the unit

Ditto. All dives except the course itself. You don't need to be diving silly depths to be using trimix.

***Decodiver*** · 13th February 2006, 17:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Whats all this bollocks about years of OC diving wont help with diving a CCR. What absolute rubbish. Years of OC diving will (or at least should) make you confident in the water and there for less stressed and more able to cope with other tasks,

The facts are, that very experienced CCR divers die diving CCRs and very experienced OC divers die diving OC. Its a dangerous sport especially at the deep trimix level.

ATB

Mark Chase

Hi Mark,

Not saying it doesn't assist, I am saying it counts for jackshite.

Exactly the I dive trimix OC therefore I am, philosophy. Not saying it can't be done, just saying it is dangerous, very dangerous.

One of my friends died in exactly these circumstances last year.

Cause of death we will never know, but definately diving too deep too soon.

Buoyancy is an issue I get sorted on my CCR courses by the end of dive 2, so it cannot be that difficult.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

dive2dive2000 · 13th February 2006, 18:15

Wow, some of the replies really blew me away.

For me until I experience some surge, some current, and some really shitty viz I will stay at depths that do not require HE. Why would you want to risk a DCI hit???? HE is a very unforgiving gas can you do a free ascent in zero viz maintaining buoyancy to 1' and if yes for how long? Come on lets be real, I have done the above in training, and almost lost my nerve. I thank the scuba gods it has never happened in real life. It will be a season of diving before HE see's my loop. As I was taught your kit will work the same in 15' or 300' it is weather you have the ability to get out of the dive if shit hits the fan.

Nick uk. · 13th February 2006, 18:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

Wow, some of the replies really blew me away.

For me until I experience some surge, some current, and some really shitty viz I will stay at depths that do not require HE. Why would you want to risk a DCI hit???? HE is a very unforgiving gas can you do a free ascent in zero viz maintaining buoyancy to 1' and if yes for how long? Come on lets be real, I have done the above in training, and almost lost my nerve. I thank the scuba gods it has never happened in real life. It will be a season of diving before HE see's my loop. As I was taught your kit will work the same in 15' or 300' it is weather you have the ability to get out of the dive if shit hits the fan.

It's the helium in your loop which will ditermine whether you can or can't!!

Blomman · 13th February 2006, 20:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

Wow, some of the replies really blew me away.

For me until I experience some surge, some current, and some really shitty viz I will stay at depths that do not require HE. Why would you want to risk a DCI hit???? HE is a very unforgiving gas can you do a free ascent in zero viz maintaining buoyancy to 1' and if yes for how long? Come on lets be real, I have done the above in training, and almost lost my nerve. I thank the scuba gods it has never happened in real life. It will be a season of diving before HE see's my loop. As I was taught your kit will work the same in 15' or 300' it is weather you have the ability to get out of the dive if shit hits the fan.

Diving with helium is not the same as going deep. I try to use helium as often as possible, even on shallow dives. When I use air as diluent I start to feel a little narced already at 27-30m. As I see it, it's stupid not to use helium in the loop. The advantages are far greater than the disadvantages. The cost for helium is very low when diving a CCR, it's worth every penny and you increase the safety a lot.

Nick uk. · 13th February 2006, 21:40

He he , this is turning into a DrMike thread.

dive2dive2000 · 13th February 2006, 22:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Blomman)

Diving with helium is not the same as going deep. I try to use helium as often as possible, even on shallow dives. When I use air as diluent I start to feel a little narced already at 27-30m. As I see it, it's stupid not to use helium in the loop. The advantages are far greater than the disadvantages. The cost for helium is very low when diving a CCR, it's worth every penny and you increase the safety a lot.

I totaly agree, a small amount of HE and 30m dives I would and will do. The thread started with 60m dives in 3 weeks. I personally would build up some hrs of diving before attempting 60m dives, but hey thats just me

13th February 2006, 09:29	#11 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,906	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? It depends if the diver has OC trimix experience and what diving is going to happen during those three weeks. That could be a lot of intense diving. This seems to be about the use of normoxic trimix, not increasing the depth necessarily. Therefore we are talking about using a lower END, therefore a "safer" gas, because for a newbie to the Box you need to keep your wits about you. OC counts for very little, as Decodiver pointed out. Except... OC trimix gives you the theory. So the diver would know about the planning and the stops and deco etc etc. What will the remaining issue be? Well, obviously, increased bottom time will affect bailout and I guess on this three week course that would be planned for and taken. I believe PSAI are looking at (or now do) letting normoxic mixes be used instead of an air dil for the same depths (I think you do an extra module - Dave, how does this work please?). Excellent - clear heads all round and an acknowledgement that helium on the Box is good and cheap. If there is a problem with this then it's to do with what comes next. There would be the temptation to add a richer mix and go deeper sooner. So it all comes down to the self-discipline of the diver... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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13th February 2006, 10:08	#12 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Careful! Quote: (Originally Posted by bubnotbub) Nad I totally agree. I would like to add same concept, but i known my limit on english language. All the best Aldo Put it in Italian, the really cool people can speak Italian as well. __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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13th February 2006, 10:48	#13 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,561	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Three weeks, pah thats nothing I was diving the safer gas after a mear 11 hours on the unit I considered doing 100 hours in the 30 -40m range narked stupid and barely able to cope with the task loading of my new toy. The warm fuzzy narcosis would no doubt have kept me blissfully unaware of how close to death i was. However in the end I decided to be all dead hard and rock an role and actualy dive with a clear head thus fully aware of just how near to death I was at all times. Mind you this did give me the small advantage of being able to deal with the problems that arose which is an unfortunate by product of diving that dead hard rock and role gas. Oh an while I am in rant mode Whats all this bollocks about years of OC diving wont help with diving a CCR. What absolute rubbish. Years of OC diving will (or at least should) make you confident in the water and there for less stressed and more able to cope with other tasks, it will give you an understanding of how buoyancy control works and what you have to do to achieve it in terms of weighting and trim. This will make the transition of control via breathing over to pinpoint use of the wing and depth changes used in CCR diving. To a diver with years of OC trimix deco experience, bailing out to OC from depth and doing gas switching ascents will be second nature. When I first started on CCR the second I had bailed out to OC I was back in my comfort zone. A competent OC diver should understand PP02 and oxygen in general and is likely to understand trimix as well. A competent diver could take a season to adjust to the subtletis and practices of diving a CCR and may or may not ever achieve excellence on one. Lets face it most divers who can only get in the water a couple of times a month will never achieve excellence on anything. The facts are, that very experienced CCR divers die diving CCRs and very experienced OC divers die diving OC. Its a dangerous sport especially at the deep trimix level. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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13th February 2006, 14:07	#14 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,906	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Three weeks, pah thats nothing I was diving the safer gas after a mear 11 hours on the unit Ditto. All dives except the course itself. You don't need to be diving silly depths to be using trimix. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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13th February 2006, 17:44	#15 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Whats all this bollocks about years of OC diving wont help with diving a CCR. What absolute rubbish. Years of OC diving will (or at least should) make you confident in the water and there for less stressed and more able to cope with other tasks, The facts are, that very experienced CCR divers die diving CCRs and very experienced OC divers die diving OC. Its a dangerous sport especially at the deep trimix level. ATB Mark Chase Hi Mark, Not saying it doesn't assist, I am saying it counts for jackshite. Exactly the I dive trimix OC therefore I am, philosophy. Not saying it can't be done, just saying it is dangerous, very dangerous. One of my friends died in exactly these circumstances last year. Cause of death we will never know, but definately diving too deep too soon. Buoyancy is an issue I get sorted on my CCR courses by the end of dive 2, so it cannot be that difficult. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions Last edited by Decodiver : 13th February 2006 at 17:47.
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13th February 2006, 18:15	#16 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Wow, some of the replies really blew me away. For me until I experience some surge, some current, and some really shitty viz I will stay at depths that do not require HE. Why would you want to risk a DCI hit???? HE is a very unforgiving gas can you do a free ascent in zero viz maintaining buoyancy to 1' and if yes for how long? Come on lets be real, I have done the above in training, and almost lost my nerve. I thank the scuba gods it has never happened in real life. It will be a season of diving before HE see's my loop. As I was taught your kit will work the same in 15' or 300' it is weather you have the ability to get out of the dive if shit hits the fan. __________________ Safe Diving, Martin "but what's the fun of getting what you need, instead of what you want?"
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13th February 2006, 18:49	#17 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) Wow, some of the replies really blew me away. For me until I experience some surge, some current, and some really shitty viz I will stay at depths that do not require HE. Why would you want to risk a DCI hit???? HE is a very unforgiving gas can you do a free ascent in zero viz maintaining buoyancy to 1' and if yes for how long? Come on lets be real, I have done the above in training, and almost lost my nerve. I thank the scuba gods it has never happened in real life. It will be a season of diving before HE see's my loop. As I was taught your kit will work the same in 15' or 300' it is weather you have the ability to get out of the dive if shit hits the fan. It's the helium in your loop which will ditermine whether you can or can't!! __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
(Offline)

13th February 2006, 20:53	#18 (permalink)
Blomman Helium is addictive! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 152	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) Wow, some of the replies really blew me away. For me until I experience some surge, some current, and some really shitty viz I will stay at depths that do not require HE. Why would you want to risk a DCI hit???? HE is a very unforgiving gas can you do a free ascent in zero viz maintaining buoyancy to 1' and if yes for how long? Come on lets be real, I have done the above in training, and almost lost my nerve. I thank the scuba gods it has never happened in real life. It will be a season of diving before HE see's my loop. As I was taught your kit will work the same in 15' or 300' it is weather you have the ability to get out of the dive if shit hits the fan. Diving with helium is not the same as going deep. I try to use helium as often as possible, even on shallow dives. When I use air as diluent I start to feel a little narced already at 27-30m. As I see it, it's stupid not to use helium in the loop. The advantages are far greater than the disadvantages. The cost for helium is very low when diving a CCR, it's worth every penny and you increase the safety a lot.
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13th February 2006, 21:40	#19 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? He he , this is turning into a DrMike thread. __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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13th February 2006, 22:19	#20 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Training: from 0 to normoxyc TX Insp in 3 week? Quote: (Originally Posted by Blomman) Diving with helium is not the same as going deep. I try to use helium as often as possible, even on shallow dives. When I use air as diluent I start to feel a little narced already at 27-30m. As I see it, it's stupid not to use helium in the loop. The advantages are far greater than the disadvantages. The cost for helium is very low when diving a CCR, it's worth every penny and you increase the safety a lot. I totaly agree, a small amount of HE and 30m dives I would and will do. The thread started with 60m dives in 3 weeks. I personally would build up some hrs of diving before attempting 60m dives, but hey thats just me __________________ Safe Diving, Martin "but what's the fun of getting what you need, instead of what you want?"
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