Safety divers for deep dives

Pierre Farrugia · 10th February 2006, 10:12

Hello all,

I was reading about the some deep dives and the use of safety divers. Have you every used safety divers for a dive? What depths would you consider using safety divers. Is there something written what their duties should be ?

Altough it's good to have one on everydive, when is it sensible to use them?

JonnyB · 10th February 2006, 10:24

Axel on this board (aquaxel), is a safety diver, basically for the national freediving team, you can ask him.

/Jonny

finbar.taylor · 10th February 2006, 10:29

I've been one for the British team and for the world championships 05both free diving. For the worlds I was predominantly looking after ascuba diver not a free diver. I can't remeber the runtimes butthe depths were about 105m.
The scuba divers help was placed about 10m shallower than the deepestsection and wited for them to return and then accompanied them for theduration of the deco up to the deco station and then a second member ofsupport took over from there.

Fin

bubnotbub · 10th February 2006, 11:15

During the deep dives, we use a safety diver, that it prepares the decompression field, controls emergency mix.... He attends us between 20 and the 30 meters, he recovers eventually equipments video/photo and bailout tanks. He adds weights if you need, practically is taken care of the emergency an the the confort during this long long part of dive.

Best
Aldo

Nick uk. · 10th February 2006, 11:56

I was the safety diver for the local commercial diver school, not long ago when they had the annual safety drills and mock up of 'abandon ship' and deployment of the liferafts. Didn't have to do much though, evrything went without a hitch, just recovered the hard shells of the life rafts, and hung around incase anyone got trapped under the upturned liferaft while they tried re-rite it during a simulation test, which thankfully nobody did.

hchoat · 10th February 2006, 13:49

I've done just about everything do-able as a safety diver over the years- granted, it was all on OC, and most of it was for OC divers, but I think the principles apply.

As some of you know, I've been a WKPP diver for years <dons asbestos clothing>. We use safety divers in a number of capacities on bigger dives. Initially, each returning team of gas divers is met by a safety team. THier initial task is to remove used bottles, scooters and any samples or scientific equipment the returning team wants to get rid of. This usually occurs at 150' (sorry guys, I don't speak meters). From that point, the safety team's job is to "babysit" the gas team through their stops, making themselves available to remove spent equipment, retrieve food tubes, etc- basically provide for the returning gas team's needs. Safety divers are expected to be especially vigilant at gas switches- and alert for signs of toxicity throughout the decompression phase of the dive. In the event of a toxicity episode, the safety divers are expected to implement the procedures we have in place to deal with the episode. Safety teams work in shifts, trading out every two hours. Perhaps the most difficult part of the safety team's job usually happens shallow- at Wakulla we have habitats (large, inverted chemical containers) placed on the ceiling at 30'. At this stop the gas teams will come out of thier harnesses and go up inot the habitat to begin the O2 phase of decompression. Getting a diver out of doublescan be tricky, and it takes both safety divers to accomplish this- as one has to hold the doubles and help the gas diver out, then secure the doubles to the habitat, while the other is at the ready with a long hose, in case the gas diver looses the reg. We reverse this process when the gas divers come out of the habitat for the final ascent- though often the gas divers will choose to use a weighed harness for this, rather than doubles. When dealing with the exploration teams on RB80's, we go through this process as well. Generally we bring the Rebreather divers out of their primary RB's at 130', and help them into a second RB used for the decompression phase. The process is exactly the same as what we do with the guys on OC. We go through this process again at 30' when they enter the habitats, and then help them into weighted harnesses for the final ascent.

Primary jobs for safety divers for cave exploration:
1. clean divers of extraneous and used gear
2. be alert for signs of toxicity and dcs
3. be available to provide extra bottles, run messages to the surface, etc.
4. help divers don and doff gear throughtout the decompression phase

In the ocean things are a little different, though many of the tasks remain the same. Primarily, the team should decide at which point in the decompression phase the safety team should rendezvous with the dive team. The safety team should have a copy of the decompression schedule with run times. Safety divers should meet the returning team carrying a bottle of appropriate deco gas, in case it is needed, and they should be prepared to clean the returning team of used/extraneous equipment at that time. For ocean dives I don't think it is either feasible, or necessary for safety divers to be present for the entire decompression phase, but rather should drop in to check on the returning team periodically throughout the decompression, preferably at gas switch stops depths, so as to be available in case of a problem. Each time they should be carrying appropriate gas for the depth in case it is needed. Further, a safety diver should be dressed and ready to deploy at all times if there is an indication of a problem from the returning team (pre-arranged signal).Safety divers should also be prepared to assist returning divers on re-boarding the boat and stowing equipment on deck.

Primary jobs for safety divers in the ocean:
1. Meet and clean returning divers of extraneous gear
2. Provide for diver's needs throughout the decompression pase
3. Be alert for signs of toxicity and dcs in returning team
4. Be prepared to deploy a safety diver immediatley in the event of a problem signal
5. Assist divers re-boarding boat and police equipment on deck

Obviosuly some of this is less applicable with CCR than OC, but the basic ideas and tasks should be the same. Personally, I have found that acting as a safety diver, and being served by safety divers, it is more efficient to have safety divers who are familair with the equipment and prcedures. Many charter boats have a DM or someone aboard who is willing to play "safety diver" and check on returning teams, and this is better than nothing, however less than ideal. In aperfect world experienced teams would trade off duties as safety divers for each other, as this makes things go most smoothly.

Heather

Nick uk. · 10th February 2006, 14:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by hchoat)

Safety teams work in shifts, trading out every two hours.
Heather

Hi Heather. Would you as a safety diver be inccuring any deco time yourself? Would this not compromise your abbility to perform certain other procedures were it may nesecary for you to surface?

What's the rule of thumb?

hchoat · 10th February 2006, 14:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.)

Hi Heather. Would you as a safety diver be inccuring any deco time yourself? Would this not compromise your abbility to perform certain other procedures were it may nesecary for you to surface?

What's the rule of thumb?

Hi Nick. Obviously the short answer is yes. To some extent it depends on the schedule your gas team is on. For example, once you have done the "meet and greet" at 150', you have to do something with all the gear you just collected from the returning team. We have a ledge that runs about 70' where we stash used gear until we are ready to bring clean up divers into the water to bring it out- so you would ascend to the ledge and get rid of all the used gear (typically 3-4 bottles and a couple of scooters per diver). Once that is accomplished you would descend back to your decompressing team. Given the stop time length at these deeper depths, the returning team has been through quite a few stops by then, and will typcially be approaching thier 70' stop. So, your realistic time at 150' is not that great.

Hope that helps,
H

Nick uk. · 10th February 2006, 14:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by hchoat)

Hi Nick.
Hope that helps,
H

***Decodiver*** · 10th February 2006, 15:37

We used 4 safety divers to support 3 bottom divers on a 120m wreck dive in the Solomons given the parcity of any recompression facilities.

There help was great and without them the dives would not have taken place.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

10th February 2006, 10:12	#1 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Safety divers for deep dives Hello all, I was reading about the some deep dives and the use of safety divers. Have you every used safety divers for a dive? What depths would you consider using safety divers. Is there something written what their duties should be ? Altough it's good to have one on everydive, when is it sensible to use them? __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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10th February 2006, 10:24	#2 (permalink)
JonnyB Jonny The Hatch Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Titan Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden (Stockholm)/Cyprus(Ayia Napa) Posts: 940	Re: Safety divers for deep dives Axel on this board (aquaxel), is a safety diver, basically for the national freediving team, you can ask him. /Jonny __________________ A quote from Crazyduck - In remembering our own Rob Davies. "Outbound flight 777 heavy you are cleared for flight Due west into that warm red Texas sunset You have angels on your wings and divers memories on your six." Rest In Peace http://www.divetekcyprus.com http://www.diveccr.com
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10th February 2006, 10:29	#3 (permalink)
finbar.taylor Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK, SE Posts: 99	Re: Safety divers for deep dives I've been one for the British team and for the world championships 05both free diving. For the worlds I was predominantly looking after ascuba diver not a free diver. I can't remeber the runtimes butthe depths were about 105m. The scuba divers help was placed about 10m shallower than the deepestsection and wited for them to return and then accompanied them for theduration of the deco up to the deco station and then a second member ofsupport took over from there. Fin
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10th February 2006, 11:15	#4 (permalink)
bubnotbub Silent diver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: France Italy Posts: 383	Re: Safety divers for deep dives During the deep dives, we use a safety diver, that it prepares the decompression field, controls emergency mix.... He attends us between 20 and the 30 meters, he recovers eventually equipments video/photo and bailout tanks. He adds weights if you need, practically is taken care of the emergency an the the confort during this long long part of dive. Best Aldo __________________ Aldo Ferrucci *Trimix and Rebreather IT* *Expedition Leader* *www.bubnotbub.com* I like bubbles only in my glass of Champagne
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10th February 2006, 11:56	#5 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Safety divers for deep dives I was the safety diver for the local commercial diver school, not long ago when they had the annual safety drills and mock up of 'abandon ship' and deployment of the liferafts. Didn't have to do much though, evrything went without a hitch, just recovered the hard shells of the life rafts, and hung around incase anyone got trapped under the upturned liferaft while they tried re-rite it during a simulation test, which thankfully nobody did. __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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10th February 2006, 13:49	#6 (permalink)
hchoat Resident Selkie Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pensacola, FL- USA Posts: 220	Re: Safety divers for deep dives I've done just about everything do-able as a safety diver over the years- granted, it was all on OC, and most of it was for OC divers, but I think the principles apply. As some of you know, I've been a WKPP diver for years <dons asbestos clothing>. We use safety divers in a number of capacities on bigger dives. Initially, each returning team of gas divers is met by a safety team. THier initial task is to remove used bottles, scooters and any samples or scientific equipment the returning team wants to get rid of. This usually occurs at 150' (sorry guys, I don't speak meters). From that point, the safety team's job is to "babysit" the gas team through their stops, making themselves available to remove spent equipment, retrieve food tubes, etc- basically provide for the returning gas team's needs. Safety divers are expected to be especially vigilant at gas switches- and alert for signs of toxicity throughout the decompression phase of the dive. In the event of a toxicity episode, the safety divers are expected to implement the procedures we have in place to deal with the episode. Safety teams work in shifts, trading out every two hours. Perhaps the most difficult part of the safety team's job usually happens shallow- at Wakulla we have habitats (large, inverted chemical containers) placed on the ceiling at 30'. At this stop the gas teams will come out of thier harnesses and go up inot the habitat to begin the O2 phase of decompression. Getting a diver out of doublescan be tricky, and it takes both safety divers to accomplish this- as one has to hold the doubles and help the gas diver out, then secure the doubles to the habitat, while the other is at the ready with a long hose, in case the gas diver looses the reg. We reverse this process when the gas divers come out of the habitat for the final ascent- though often the gas divers will choose to use a weighed harness for this, rather than doubles. When dealing with the exploration teams on RB80's, we go through this process as well. Generally we bring the Rebreather divers out of their primary RB's at 130', and help them into a second RB used for the decompression phase. The process is exactly the same as what we do with the guys on OC. We go through this process again at 30' when they enter the habitats, and then help them into weighted harnesses for the final ascent. Primary jobs for safety divers for cave exploration: 1. clean divers of extraneous and used gear 2. be alert for signs of toxicity and dcs 3. be available to provide extra bottles, run messages to the surface, etc. 4. help divers don and doff gear throughtout the decompression phase In the ocean things are a little different, though many of the tasks remain the same. Primarily, the team should decide at which point in the decompression phase the safety team should rendezvous with the dive team. The safety team should have a copy of the decompression schedule with run times. Safety divers should meet the returning team carrying a bottle of appropriate deco gas, in case it is needed, and they should be prepared to clean the returning team of used/extraneous equipment at that time. For ocean dives I don't think it is either feasible, or necessary for safety divers to be present for the entire decompression phase, but rather should drop in to check on the returning team periodically throughout the decompression, preferably at gas switch stops depths, so as to be available in case of a problem. Each time they should be carrying appropriate gas for the depth in case it is needed. Further, a safety diver should be dressed and ready to deploy at all times if there is an indication of a problem from the returning team (pre-arranged signal).Safety divers should also be prepared to assist returning divers on re-boarding the boat and stowing equipment on deck. Primary jobs for safety divers in the ocean: 1. Meet and clean returning divers of extraneous gear 2. Provide for diver's needs throughout the decompression pase 3. Be alert for signs of toxicity and dcs in returning team 4. Be prepared to deploy a safety diver immediatley in the event of a problem signal 5. Assist divers re-boarding boat and police equipment on deck Obviosuly some of this is less applicable with CCR than OC, but the basic ideas and tasks should be the same. Personally, I have found that acting as a safety diver, and being served by safety divers, it is more efficient to have safety divers who are familair with the equipment and prcedures. Many charter boats have a DM or someone aboard who is willing to play "safety diver" and check on returning teams, and this is better than nothing, however less than ideal. In aperfect world experienced teams would trade off duties as safety divers for each other, as this makes things go most smoothly. Heather __________________ Duct tape is like the force... it has a light side and dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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10th February 2006, 14:11	#7 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Safety divers for deep dives Quote: (Originally Posted by hchoat) Safety teams work in shifts, trading out every two hours. Heather Hi Heather. Would you as a safety diver be inccuring any deco time yourself? Would this not compromise your abbility to perform certain other procedures were it may nesecary for you to surface? What's the rule of thumb? __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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10th February 2006, 14:23	#8 (permalink)
hchoat Resident Selkie Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pensacola, FL- USA Posts: 220	Re: Safety divers for deep dives Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.) Hi Heather. Would you as a safety diver be inccuring any deco time yourself? Would this not compromise your abbility to perform certain other procedures were it may nesecary for you to surface? What's the rule of thumb? Hi Nick. Obviously the short answer is yes. To some extent it depends on the schedule your gas team is on. For example, once you have done the "meet and greet" at 150', you have to do something with all the gear you just collected from the returning team. We have a ledge that runs about 70' where we stash used gear until we are ready to bring clean up divers into the water to bring it out- so you would ascend to the ledge and get rid of all the used gear (typically 3-4 bottles and a couple of scooters per diver). Once that is accomplished you would descend back to your decompressing team. Given the stop time length at these deeper depths, the returning team has been through quite a few stops by then, and will typcially be approaching thier 70' stop. So, your realistic time at 150' is not that great. Hope that helps, H __________________ Duct tape is like the force... it has a light side and dark side, and it holds the universe together.
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10th February 2006, 14:49	#9 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Safety divers for deep dives Quote: (Originally Posted by hchoat) Hi Nick. Hope that helps, H __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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10th February 2006, 15:37	#10 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,164	Re: Safety divers for deep dives We used 4 safety divers to support 3 bottom divers on a 120m wreck dive in the Solomons given the parcity of any recompression facilities. There help was great and without them the dives would not have taken place. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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