CE Testing

**Steve** · 21st January 2006, 08:55

I've been searching online for a copy of the CE Requirements for CCRs but have failed. Can someone point me in the right direction please?

TIS

Steve

***Beanie*** · 21st January 2006, 09:02

er its in the open revolution forum

here

divetheworld · 21st January 2006, 14:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

er its in the open revolution forum

here

Rebreathers fall under the scope of Personal Protective Equipment. This is a European law which must be complied with before this type of equipment may be supplied to the market. One of the ways to ensure compliance is to use the Harmonised Euro norm Standards as published in the Official Journal. A website was setup for this purpose by my colleagues here http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise.../ppe/index.htm
and here http://www.newapproach.org/
In this you can get the text to the PPE Directive free of charge. One point to note is that the Standards are not law, they are a means of compliance with the law. If equipment is manufactured in accordance with the specified published Harmonised Standards, it is deemed to comply with the Essential Health and Safety Requirements covered by those standards.
In addition, you will be required to have assessment criteria completed by a Notified body as a legal requirement to applying the CE Marking to PPE.

Brent.

PS
Auzzie has a mutual recognition agreement with the EU regarding the CE marking, if you need any help, our Austrailia office might be able to give you soem assistance.

Diver Den · 21st January 2006, 18:27

Steve
I have just spent some time with Leon and Steve at the Health and Safety Laboratory in the UK we were doing the CE tests. The WOB results exceeded all expectations all 5 scrubbers performed very well. We have to finnish the duration tests then Leon will publish the results watch this space.

Dennis Vessey

abowie · 22nd January 2006, 04:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

er its in the open revolution forum

here

Really good read but WHY did anyone go to this much trouble?

***jradomski*** · 22nd January 2006, 04:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld)

Rebreathers fall under the scope of Personal Protective Equipment. This is a European law which must be complied with before this type of equipment may be supplied to the market. One of the ways to ensure compliance is to use the Harmonised Euro norm Standards as published in the Official Journal. A website was setup for this purpose by my colleagues here http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise.../ppe/index.htm
and here http://www.newapproach.org/
In this you can get the text to the PPE Directive free of charge. One point to note is that the Standards are not law, they are a means of compliance with the law. If equipment is manufactured in accordance with the specified published Harmonised Standards, it is deemed to comply with the Essential Health and Safety Requirements covered by those standards.
In addition, you will be required to have assessment criteria completed by a Notified body as a legal requirement to applying the CE Marking to PPE.

Brent.

PS
Auzzie has a mutual recognition agreement with the EU regarding the CE marking, if you need any help, our Austrailia office might be able to give you soem assistance.

Yes but tehre is also an adopted standard for rebreathers which is much more difficult to meet than the PPE directive.

rebreathers fall under
en14143:2003

Respiratory equipment - Self-contained re-breathing diving
apparatus

this is from the foreward

This document (EN 14143:2003) has been prepared by Technical Committee CEN/TC 79 “Respiratory
protective devices”, the secretariat of which is held by DIN.
This European Standard shall be given the status of a national standard, either by publication of an identical
text or by endorsement, at the latest by March 2004, and conflicting national standards shall be withdrawn at
the latest by March 2004.
This document has been prepared under a mandate given to CEN by the European Commission and the
European Free Trade Association, and supports essential requirements of EU Directive(s).
For relationship with EU Directive(s), see informative Annex ZA, which is an integral part of this document.
In this European Standard the annex A is informative.
According to the CEN/CENELEC Internal Regulations, the national standards organizations of the following
countries are bound to implement this European Standard: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands,
Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

sven · 22nd January 2006, 06:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld)

PS
Auzzie has a mutual recognition agreement with the EU regarding the CE marking, ...

Is this written somewhere, where can I find it?
I am finding it hard to get my Inspiration tanks (Faber) hydroed and stamped here in Oz. I assume that they are CE certified - I'll go and check with Faber, just in case. The original tanks don't have a burst disk - not a requirement in the U.K., but in Oz. Any help would be appreciated.

abowie · 22nd January 2006, 09:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by sven)

Is this written somewhere, where can I find it?
I am finding it hard to get my Inspiration tanks (Faber) hydroed and stamped here in Oz. I assume that they are CE certified - I'll go and check with Faber, just in case. The original tanks don't have a burst disk - not a requirement in the U.K., but in Oz. Any help would be appreciated.

Forget it; it's pretty much impossible.

At the end of the day if they don't have the appropriate stamps on them no one will have a lot of interest in putting them there.

You're better off just buying 2 new tanks.

divetheworld · 22nd January 2006, 11:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Yes but tehre is also an adopted standard for rebreathers which is much more difficult to meet than the PPE directive.

rebreathers fall under
en14143:2003

Respiratory equipment - Self-contained re-breathing diving
apparatus

Not exactly what I was trying to explain. You see, in order to comply with the Directive, you must prove the equipment meets the Essential Health and Safety requirements. As EN14143 is published in the official journal as the type C standard for rebreathers, you would use this standard for compliance. In essence, you would find it very difficult to comply with the directive without complying with the standard. It’s the relationship between the standard and the Directive that I am trying to illustrate.
Technically, you could CE mark a KISS system under the PPE Directive, but the moment there was an accident, the Market Surveillance authority would bring up EN14143 in the inquest and ask how you achieved an equivalent level of safety without using that Standard. Of course you couldn’t claim otherwise and would lose the action.

Think of it this way, The Directive is law, the standard is one means of complying with that law. The standard gives you presumption of compliance with the law. Compliance with the standard is not mandatory.
Academic in argument as a Notified Body is required for the certification of such equipment and no NB will sign off on a rebreather without using the presumption of compliance due to liability.

Brent.

divetheworld · 22nd January 2006, 11:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by sven)

Is this written somewhere, where can I find it?
I am finding it hard to get my Inspiration tanks (Faber) hydroed and stamped here in Oz. I assume that they are CE certified - I'll go and check with Faber, just in case. The original tanks don't have a burst disk - not a requirement in the U.K., but in Oz. Any help would be appreciated.

Went through this before, Faber have certificates available which demonstrate the EU market version and the Oz versions are the same produced model with different markings on it.

The Faber steel cylinder is made exactly the same for the UK under the PED regulations as it is for the Aussies. go to their site to collect the Faber data sheets showing that the only difference is the stamp on the tank which is applied for the specific market that the cylinder is destined for.

I was involved in trying to straighten out the cock up in the UK when the Pressure Equipment Directive came into force. I corresponded with Mike Harwood from the HSE and Peter Prince at Aqualung UK (The importer od Faber cylinders) to allow the original markings to be accepted on mixed gas fills whilst the transition was in effect. Some of you might remember the "cant fill that its stamped with 'breathing air'" conversations. The fix for that was the re-marking of cyls that we had agreed for available stocks.

In essence, the new directive came into force and the standards dictated the certification depending upon which gas was to be used for each cylinder. there was a line drawn between different levels of gas service and cylinder which undergo a change of gas service had to be remarked. 21% O2 was the change over point. this means that if a cylinder is marked with air, you could not fill with EANX until the cylinder had undergone a gas service change procedure or vis-a-versa. This was to stop idiots putting different gases into industrial cylinders without following a proper safety procedure. Problem was, no-one on the committee thought about the regular changes divers make in gas contents. Essentially each time you put in a new fill, you needed a new tank cert. After admitting that they dropped a bollock, we were able to agree on the remarking of cylinders.

This specific problem is avoided by the freedom of marketing of goods agreement between our countries. Without this agreement, Australian good would suffer greatly from being rejected from the European Union without EU certification. Remember, it is not just the UK, it is Europe. If they reject British cylinders, they reject European cylinders. If Europe rejected AU goods on the same basis, trade would cease.

21st January 2006, 08:55	#1 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,070	CE Testing I've been searching online for a copy of the CE Requirements for CCRs but have failed. Can someone point me in the right direction please? TIS Steve __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Online)

21st January 2006, 09:02	#2 (permalink)
*Beanie* Politeness officer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,163	Re: CE Testing er its in the open revolution forum here __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
(Offline)

21st January 2006, 14:47	#3 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,537	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) er its in the open revolution forum here Rebreathers fall under the scope of Personal Protective Equipment. This is a European law which must be complied with before this type of equipment may be supplied to the market. One of the ways to ensure compliance is to use the Harmonised Euro norm Standards as published in the Official Journal. A website was setup for this purpose by my colleagues here http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise.../ppe/index.htm and here http://www.newapproach.org/ In this you can get the text to the PPE Directive free of charge. One point to note is that the Standards are not law, they are a means of compliance with the law. If equipment is manufactured in accordance with the specified published Harmonised Standards, it is deemed to comply with the Essential Health and Safety Requirements covered by those standards. In addition, you will be required to have assessment criteria completed by a Notified body as a legal requirement to applying the CE Marking to PPE. Brent. PS Auzzie has a mutual recognition agreement with the EU regarding the CE marking, if you need any help, our Austrailia office might be able to give you soem assistance. __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe Last edited by divetheworld : 21st January 2006 at 14:56.
(Offline)

21st January 2006, 18:27	#4 (permalink)
Diver Den New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: lincolnshire uk Posts: 22	Re: CE Testing Steve I have just spent some time with Leon and Steve at the Health and Safety Laboratory in the UK we were doing the CE tests. The WOB results exceeded all expectations all 5 scrubbers performed very well. We have to finnish the duration tests then Leon will publish the results watch this space. Dennis Vessey
(Offline)

22nd January 2006, 04:32	#5 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 573	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) er its in the open revolution forum here Really good read but WHY did anyone go to this much trouble? __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
(Offline)

22nd January 2006, 04:49	#6 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld) Rebreathers fall under the scope of Personal Protective Equipment. This is a European law which must be complied with before this type of equipment may be supplied to the market. One of the ways to ensure compliance is to use the Harmonised Euro norm Standards as published in the Official Journal. A website was setup for this purpose by my colleagues here http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise.../ppe/index.htm and here http://www.newapproach.org/ In this you can get the text to the PPE Directive free of charge. One point to note is that the Standards are not law, they are a means of compliance with the law. If equipment is manufactured in accordance with the specified published Harmonised Standards, it is deemed to comply with the Essential Health and Safety Requirements covered by those standards. In addition, you will be required to have assessment criteria completed by a Notified body as a legal requirement to applying the CE Marking to PPE. Brent. PS Auzzie has a mutual recognition agreement with the EU regarding the CE marking, if you need any help, our Austrailia office might be able to give you soem assistance. Yes but tehre is also an adopted standard for rebreathers which is much more difficult to meet than the PPE directive. rebreathers fall under en14143:2003 Respiratory equipment - Self-contained re-breathing diving apparatus this is from the foreward This document (EN 14143:2003) has been prepared by Technical Committee CEN/TC 79 “Respiratory protective devices”, the secretariat of which is held by DIN. This European Standard shall be given the status of a national standard, either by publication of an identical text or by endorsement, at the latest by March 2004, and conflicting national standards shall be withdrawn at the latest by March 2004. This document has been prepared under a mandate given to CEN by the European Commission and the European Free Trade Association, and supports essential requirements of EU Directive(s). For relationship with EU Directive(s), see informative Annex ZA, which is an integral part of this document. In this European Standard the annex A is informative. According to the CEN/CENELEC Internal Regulations, the national standards organizations of the following countries are bound to implement this European Standard: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Offline)

22nd January 2006, 06:31	#7 (permalink)
sven Blogs Admin / Forum Mod Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 574	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld) PS Auzzie has a mutual recognition agreement with the EU regarding the CE marking, ... Is this written somewhere, where can I find it? I am finding it hard to get my Inspiration tanks (Faber) hydroed and stamped here in Oz. I assume that they are CE certified - I'll go and check with Faber, just in case. The original tanks don't have a burst disk - not a requirement in the U.K., but in Oz. Any help would be appreciated. __________________ Regards, Sven [SIZE=1]The Sydney Project website: [URL]http://www.sydneyproject.com[/URL] My Blog: [URL]http://sven.rebreatherworld.com[/URL] "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain[/SIZE]
(Offline)

22nd January 2006, 09:42	#8 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 573	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by sven) Is this written somewhere, where can I find it? I am finding it hard to get my Inspiration tanks (Faber) hydroed and stamped here in Oz. I assume that they are CE certified - I'll go and check with Faber, just in case. The original tanks don't have a burst disk - not a requirement in the U.K., but in Oz. Any help would be appreciated. Forget it; it's pretty much impossible. At the end of the day if they don't have the appropriate stamps on them no one will have a lot of interest in putting them there. You're better off just buying 2 new tanks. __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
(Offline)

22nd January 2006, 11:20	#9 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,537	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Yes but tehre is also an adopted standard for rebreathers which is much more difficult to meet than the PPE directive. rebreathers fall under en14143:2003 Respiratory equipment - Self-contained re-breathing diving apparatus Not exactly what I was trying to explain. You see, in order to comply with the Directive, you must prove the equipment meets the Essential Health and Safety requirements. As EN14143 is published in the official journal as the type C standard for rebreathers, you would use this standard for compliance. In essence, you would find it very difficult to comply with the directive without complying with the standard. It’s the relationship between the standard and the Directive that I am trying to illustrate. Technically, you could CE mark a KISS system under the PPE Directive, but the moment there was an accident, the Market Surveillance authority would bring up EN14143 in the inquest and ask how you achieved an equivalent level of safety without using that Standard. Of course you couldn’t claim otherwise and would lose the action. Think of it this way, The Directive is law, the standard is one means of complying with that law. The standard gives you presumption of compliance with the law. Compliance with the standard is not mandatory. Academic in argument as a Notified Body is required for the certification of such equipment and no NB will sign off on a rebreather without using the presumption of compliance due to liability. Brent. __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe Last edited by divetheworld : 22nd January 2006 at 11:25.
(Offline)

22nd January 2006, 11:24	#10 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,537	Re: CE Testing Quote: (Originally Posted by sven) Is this written somewhere, where can I find it? I am finding it hard to get my Inspiration tanks (Faber) hydroed and stamped here in Oz. I assume that they are CE certified - I'll go and check with Faber, just in case. The original tanks don't have a burst disk - not a requirement in the U.K., but in Oz. Any help would be appreciated. Went through this before, Faber have certificates available which demonstrate the EU market version and the Oz versions are the same produced model with different markings on it. The Faber steel cylinder is made exactly the same for the UK under the PED regulations as it is for the Aussies. go to their site to collect the Faber data sheets showing that the only difference is the stamp on the tank which is applied for the specific market that the cylinder is destined for. I was involved in trying to straighten out the cock up in the UK when the Pressure Equipment Directive came into force. I corresponded with Mike Harwood from the HSE and Peter Prince at Aqualung UK (The importer od Faber cylinders) to allow the original markings to be accepted on mixed gas fills whilst the transition was in effect. Some of you might remember the "cant fill that its stamped with 'breathing air'" conversations. The fix for that was the re-marking of cyls that we had agreed for available stocks. In essence, the new directive came into force and the standards dictated the certification depending upon which gas was to be used for each cylinder. there was a line drawn between different levels of gas service and cylinder which undergo a change of gas service had to be remarked. 21% O2 was the change over point. this means that if a cylinder is marked with air, you could not fill with EANX until the cylinder had undergone a gas service change procedure or vis-a-versa. This was to stop idiots putting different gases into industrial cylinders without following a proper safety procedure. Problem was, no-one on the committee thought about the regular changes divers make in gas contents. Essentially each time you put in a new fill, you needed a new tank cert. After admitting that they dropped a bollock, we were able to agree on the remarking of cylinders. This specific problem is avoided by the freedom of marketing of goods agreement between our countries. Without this agreement, Australian good would suffer greatly from being rejected from the European Union without EU certification. Remember, it is not just the UK, it is Europe. If they reject British cylinders, they reject European cylinders. If Europe rejected AU goods on the same basis, trade would cease. __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe Last edited by divetheworld : 22nd January 2006 at 11:39.
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode