re selling ccr ???

MHD

Personally I wouldn't really care, I would make sure all communication /advertising I had with them includes the line, "this thing can kill you at any time, improper use of CCr's has and does result in the death of the user. Do not use without suitable training from an accredited source" or something to that end, just to clear my self of any thought that the person was ill informed, then sell it to what ever person came along.

But then I am self taught on both SCR and CCR and a home builder/ modifer, so my view may be not main stream.

On this front I find it interesting the Dive rite have built into the optima the ability to relock the unit so that sellers can lock it and then diverite can unlock the unit once the person has received training from a recongnised instructor. I am not this is a bright idea, one on hand it means there can be controls over untrained user getting 2nd hand units, on the other it means there is a direct link between the unit and subsequent owners and Diverite for the life of the unit. Not sure which is more advantageous legally.

P.P.S I would not sell a home built/converted to any one, except with the extra bits removed as a project base.

Matt

Simon TW

This is a tough question. In the modern age of computers how do you that the person buying a ccr with a cert haven't just made themself a cert with their computer. Would you go so far as to comsult the agency and check the cert?

In England I think that it would be normal prectice to check certs. I think that is mainly the case to cover ones arse.

In Egypt you could buy and sell ccr without any problems (i know people who do) this is because there would never be a bunch of blood sucking lawyers willing to work "pro bono".

It's not a moral issue really, we can kid ourselves into beleiving that we would be protecting somone by not selling the kit but really we are protecting ourselves against litigation. If we didn't have a working legal system them you would sell ccr to any person who turned up with the cash.

What if I wanted to buy a unit for my son. I have a cert and I tell you its a present for his birthday. He's not got a cert and he has never dived even on OC. I have my cash and my cert. You're clear really from litigation but you know its not going to be used by me.

Do you sell??

deepnark

i recently sold my inspro to a guy ,and to stop him using it without instruction i took off the dil and o2 injectors and sent them on to his instructor ,after checking that it was an instructor ,and not a mate down the road.Done my bit ,i gave him a unuseable unit for his own safty ,only to read on this thread that he has got hold of injectors and is going to dive with it before his course.That of course is his choice ,as i have said ,ive done my bit by sending on the injectors.
At the end of the day as divers we are ALL responsible for ourselves,and not the guy how sold you whatever bit of kit that f@*ks you up.

dive safe
Ray

Skeletor

If someone is intent on being an arse, they will find a way, regardless of certs.

Out of curiousity, has anyone ever demanded to see a cert of anyone buying a second hand cylinder or a set of regs ? O.k., its easier to kill youself on a CCR, but the basic principal still applies.

Personally, I'm with 01RMB. Its about time we stopped trying to blame everyone else for our own actions / inactions. If i trip over in the street, its not the councils fault, its mine for not lookig where I was going.

Certain groups of people do need protecting by law (minors), but the majority of people do have the intillect to make their own reasoned decisions if given the information. As far as I am concerned, saying "use this without the correct training and you are going to die . . . . horribly" is fairly unambiguous.

Drmike

Bollocks.
Its got bugger all to do with the legal system for me.

I wouldnt sell a unit to an untrained (or in-experienced on a Rebreather person) because I dont want untrained (or in-experienced on Rebreather) people diving rebreathers - period.

The reason I dont want untrained (or in-experienced on Rebreather ) people diving rebreathers is because;

a) I dont want them to die
b) I dont want rebreathers to get an even worse reputation than they already have
c) I dont want to have to justify to dive boat or resort operators that the fact Im diving and Rebreather doesnt mean they need to worry that I will drop dead at any moment.
d) I dont want to have to read all the usual RBs are death traps stuff off the net
e) I dont want to have to explain to my wife friends and every OC diver I meet why 'Im' not going to die.
f) I dont want to see dive sites/or some boats closed to Rebreather divers

I think we should self police. I dont want to see it a law or be enforced - which is why self policing for the good of all and for the good of the Rebreather community is not a bad thing in my view.

Why is it so often people who have the natural ability curiosity and drive to self teach at the same time are so ignorant to the fact that not everyone is like them.. Some people just dont get it, and need formal training to dive safe.

__________________
Cave diving is a sport
Wreck diving is a sport
Diving in general is a sport

'Rebreather diving' is not a sport
its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment

Genesis

Those of us who have the ability, drive and curiosity are not ignorant. Many of us simply believe that the other points you listed are a consequence of an ill-adopted foundation, and that one cannot intentionally plant a poison tree and then complain when the fruit it bears is poisonous.

The problem some of us have with your position Mike is that the foundational principle that guides it inevitably leads to one being told who they can sleep with (and how!), when they can play golf (e.g. might it storm?), what food(s) one can eat and in what quantity (you might have a heart attack, contract diabetes, get cancer, etc), whether one can go fishing and whether one must wear a PFD while doing so (you might fall overboard), whether one can jump out of a functional airplane or climb a mountain - just because you want to do either. In short, once you accede to that worldview then absolutely nothing you wish to do in your life is beyond someone else's review and control.

In short, under that worldview one loses the right to live as a consequence of another's claim to protect your life. Life in a cage is IMHO not life at all.

The only question that remains once the position you advocate is adopted is who gets to set the "excessive risk" pointer denoting a forbidden act on the line from "zero" to "certain death", and how often the pointer will be moved.

I and others like me argue that the only person who has a right to set that pointer for oneself, and review its current location, is the individual. The foundation of your argument is that someone else - you, a govenment, an unaccountable agency - gets to set it for others.

We dismiss your position not because we're ignorant, but because we disagree with the foundation on which your premise rests.

We believe that all the problems you cite - except the first, which is not your issue to concern yourself with in the first place - are the fruit of that poisonous tree, and you may avoid those issues by ripping the tree out by its roots and replacing it with one that bears the fruit of respect for individual liberty, freedom - and responsibility for one's own acts.

MHD

We are strong beleivers in Darwinism?

And why should those with the above traits be locked out in pursuing there interests?

Matt

mverick

All your reasons. I have to explain already. Even diving OC.... I see people at the quaries die from freaking out and bulleting to the surface also. Seen 4 do that now. I've pulled bodies out of cars and off the bottom. Guy's that jumped off cliffs. Jumped off bridges to there death. I've got trapped underwater...

To be honest. With all the Heart attacks of the older Rebreather divers. Maybe we should require RB divers be under 30 years old and take a physical every six months. Plus No alcohol. Also, a strength requirement. Don't pass. You're RB locks up.. Doctor has to put in the pin ever 3 months...

And, I'm not going to talk about someone else being ignorant.. You have you're reasons. I have mine..

Why is it that most Rebreather divers are so sensitive when they here the words Rebreather Death... I hear Diver Died a lot to.. From people who don't dive.. Should I correct them and say. Old man had a heart attack? Usually if I know, I tell them. But, I don't go Psyco about it...

jont

Hi Why would a Canadian Guy talk to a British Girl???? Don't the Britts have bad teeth????

ccr_ada

tut tut tut

have a word

now then back on topic

do you all as ccr oners/divers think its ok then to sell to someone to comit harry carry (suicide for you lot in the USA ) and get us all as ccr divers a bad name they are always popping up on ebay now its only a matter of time

yes you can go and buy oc diving equipment with no cert anywere and yes they can kill you but you try and hire oc equipment its not easy with no cert

i would like it if all ccrs had a pincode like phones so if you leave it noone could use it without the pin

as for home brewed kit well bet they play the lotto every dive but thats how things start off if it wasnot for them we would never have got wet

just my 2p

ada

with very good teeth