Meg/ Optima Comp...

hoppyinca

I have been reading postings on rebreather world for sometime, and I am nearing the purchase of my own CCR; however, I have some questions. I could not determine what form to put this in, and the comparison question has been asked so many times… just looking for an honest “off the record” opinion.

My main question is which do you prefer to dive, the Meg or the Optima and why? I have pretty much narrowed my decision down to one of these units, there are some specifics which are making the decision a bit difficult. The main ones being ability to travel (not just packing the rig, but also resources available once on site) and deco software.

Here is where my decision is getting clouded…
Optima Pros; nice package… streamlined, HH electronics, small loop, great flood prevention characteristics.
Optima Cons; pretty new (though assembled of “proven” parts), bottle restriction (size of bottles available at destination), ease of travel?...

Meg Pros; solid construction, open architecture (yet still streamline), travels well.
Meg Cons; No Deco software (apecs 3.0 soon, but the first version with deco. I am not a fan of owning version 1 of anything).

As I look at the list I have written I would say that the Optima seems like the choice… maybe I have just been drooling over the Meg too long to look at another viable option seriously…

Please let me know if you have any input…
soon to be CCR Diver...

Chad

mverick

Some people don't have deco computers on there Rebreather's. Prism is one. Meg for a while is another....

That said. My meg has a Shearwater.... Happy with it too... I also have a VR3 and a HS explorer. Haven't ever used the Explorer for CCR though. Will try it this year. Had it for 2.5 years now. Usually I cut tables. And use Shear water.

HH electronics I like. But, I hate that they eat batteries.

My meg fits in a carry on UK case. Except for the Loop hoses and tanks. So, it's small. And I have a full size Meg.

Tough call on Meg or Optima. But, I don't like the Extend air cartridges. That kinda seals it for me. Getting Extend air cartridges in travel destinations might be tough. Standard Sorb fits all Rebreather's.

They are also having some problems from what I hear with HH cases corroding. But to be honest. I like them alot. They have some major bling to them.

The Optima is also more streamlined then the meg. In width.

Sorry I couldn't help. Meg has been out for a while. Time will tell with the Optima...

ScubaDadMiami

I feel your pain. I was exactly where you are now just a short while ago.

Ultimately, I decided on the Optima. However, I think that the Meg is also an excellent unit. It has some very robust engineering, and it is solidly built. I just decided to go the other way.

My main concern about the Meg was the long hoses on the loop. I dive a lot of wrecks. The hoses behind the head keep setting off the entrapment alarm in my head. When I would bring this up, people would just tell me to use the larger tanks that project farther above the head as a prevention and blocker for the hoses. That just did not cut it for me.

My second concern was eliminating caustic cocktails. I really think I moved in favor of the Extend Air cartridges after actually watching somebody pack a Meg canister with Sorb. The dust was blowing all over the place, and I felt a burn in my throat from (even from pretty far away) when the wind carried some of it in my direction (even though I thought I was standing out of the breeze). Then, I saw the person who was packing the Meg start to smack the canister with the side of a table to tamp down the Sorb. For me, this episode finally tipped the scale in the direction of the Optima over the Meg.

I am in the process of training on my Optima as we speak. There are certainly some things about it I would change if I could. However, I like the basics of the design. Dive Rite (yes, I know it's really Farallon sort of) has excellent customer service, and they tend to have fast turnaround should you ever need to have servicing done on your unit. Since I don't have any actual experience with Meg service, I won't comment; that wouldn't be fair. However, I would ask around about this from others in the know, factoring the answer into your decision-making process.

I think that lots of rebreathers seem to have some things both positive and those that everyone wish could be changed. So, it will be hard to find one that has everything you want without any negatives. That just seems to be the way it is.

I am happy that I elected to get an Optima. However, I wouldn't turn down a free Meg.

By the way, you are not restricted as much as you think with the Optima regarding tanks. You can use smaller tanks (such as 19 cubic footers, etc.). However, you will then have to add weight. The designers use the bigger tanks to produce the same buoyancy with a greater volume of onboard gas. This is something I also like over other rebreathers. After all, they will all pretty much have problems at one time or another. Having extra gas for the just in case scenarios seems like a good thing to me.

__________________
Howard Packer
IANTD CCR Instructor
Miami Beach, Florida
CCRDiveTraining.com

hoppyinca

"...you are not restricted as much as you think with the Optima regarding tanks. You can use smaller tanks (such as 19 cubic footers, etc.)..."

I have been following your post... good luck with the training with Mr. Mount...

how much room do you have from the bottom of the canister to the bottom of the frame?

Can you remove the frame and still mount tanks?

I was at Dema, talked with Mr. Hines... really turned me on to the unit; however, the unit was totally assembled...

My concern... show up at a location and the only bottles they have are AL80's... would it be do-able, and comfortable with the Optima?

Chad

Genesis

I was where you were not all that long ago.

I decided instead to attempt BUILDING an eCCR first. If I fail THEN I will buy one of these, and it will likely be a Meg, unless something else comes out first.

Here's why.

1. I like the O2ptima use of the cartridges. I don't like being FORCED to use them. I understand you can get an insert for the Meg to use them (they did for "The Cave"), AND you can use loose sorb. That's a selling point the O2ptima doesn't (at present) have. The O2ptima is supposed to have a loose-pack option - someday.

2. I like the O2ptima scrubber location and short breathing loop this produces. Indeed, this is likely its nicest single feature and one I intend to learn from in building my own. The Meg's loop is more "conventional" in that the scrubber is vertical and between the two tanks.

3. I do not find the argument compelling on entanglement. You can solve this like you solve it with OC if there is a potential line trap on a unit - run the tanks valve-up, cross the supply hoses behind your head. If there's a problem with fasteners and such then change them or case 'em (e.g. in vinyl tubing for screw clamps) so they can't trap line and other "things". I do this already for stages, which otherwise have the same potential issue, and run a piece of inner tube over my scooter latches (same deal along with the risk of them being popped underwater.) I've not STUDIED the Meg enough to know if there is a fastener issue that CAN'T be resolved - but I doubt that is the case.

4. The Meg is expensive for what you get, comparatively. No integrated deco, and priced out its CONSIDERABLY more expensive than the O2ptima when you add additional bits to make an "apples to apples" comparison. Worth it? If you like the unit, it might be. But I'm quite sure I can build one for THAT much money......

The O2ptima sounds like it was where I would have gone. And I would have bought one - except for one problem which I cannot get around.

That is the Farallon-issue version of the Hammerhead.

Let me explain....

I have minor issues with the Hammerhead in all its incantations. I don't like running millivolt level signals down the cable to the handset, for example, or its reliance on waterblocking in the cable instead of isolating it and running logic-level signals you can verify instead. But this is a design decision and it can be debated - what's not arguable is that what Kevin has done WORKS, so there you have it.

HOWEVER, Farallon did what I consider to be a particularly evil thing in that they put in TWO "PINs" in the handset. The first unlocks it, which your instructor gets if you don't have a cert (yet). Ok. I disagree with this on principle (I buy it I should own it - uncrippled) BUT I'll put up with that.

But that PIN only unlocks NITROX - no Helium. Not only does Farallon want what I consider to be an insane amount of money for the upgrade, they won't issue the PIN without proof of a formal Trimix class. Former DIVING Trimix doesn't count.

No formal CCR Trimix class, no PIN. Period.

Now you'd say "why does this matter since you should take one before going real deep anyway?"

My answer is simple - this isn't about going "real deep." Its about diving the safest gas for a given dive, and the fact that you CAN dive Air to its MOD - just like you can dive 21/35 there.....

The argument AGAINST using Trimix on anything over 100' or so on open circuit is simply one of cost. I sometimes dive "Airish" OC in the 100-150ish range in warm, calm water precisely because the money gets to you when you dive a lot, as I do. Is it "smart"? Probably not, especially on wreck penetrations. I had one "dark narc" event a couple of years ago (which I provoked - my fault entirely) and didn't enjoy it one bit.

I'm well-aware that this is less safe than diving 'Mix - and reality is that there's no valid reason not to use 21/35 instead of air on these dives - except for the cost. And on OC, I can and sometimes do whip up a set of dubs full of 21/35 if I intend to do a dive that might be more challenging than a "warm-water-weenie" dive below 100'.

With a CCR the gas cost issue disappears! Since I have my own fillstation, I fill my own bottles with whatever I feel like using; there is no "buying gas" problem.

So - I am now going to be forced to pony up for about $2,000 in additional money in order to actually use a safer breathing gas in the O2ptima. When I plug THAT into the equation, the advantage that the O2ptima has narrows considerably.

Then there is the issue that most of the diving around here is in the 80-130' range. In fact, there are something like three sites that are less than 60' in depth. An expectation that I will spend 100 hours on the unit before breaking the 100' barrier is entirely unrealistic - it simply is not going to happen with me living here, and I have a severe issue with diving a less-safe breathing mix at the time when I'm most succeptable to perceptual narrowing getting me in major trouble - as I'm learning to sort things again. I want all my faculties during that time - not half of them.

As a matter of principle I refuse to spend my money with companies that demand that I do something that in my opinion is less safe for political reasons. I didn't have to provide Delta-P anything except money to buy my OC/CC Trimix VR3.

I can plug that in for deco on a Meg, and use whatever gas I want. Ditto with a homebuild.

Anyway, DiveRite/Farallon lost a sale to me over this.

This may not matter to you, but this additional cost and complete inability until you qualify for the Mod2 class to dive even normoxic Mix as a diluent is something you should be aware of if you intend to use the decompression computer in the Hammerhead. This is apparently NOT an issue for HHs bought directly from Kevin - only for those that are included with the O2ptima.

TordoffR

That was my cigar, not the dust from the sorb.

__________________
Rich
"It's better to burn out, than to fade away."

dantheman

I agree with what you're saying overall, but isn't it more like $500?

--dan

Genesis

No - the software charge is $500, and the class about $1500.

jradomski

Personally I think the pins are a good thing.. The first pin that enables the basic functions is good for safety ion my opinion..
Normally CCR manufactures ship units to buyer minus 1 critical component so they cant use thr rig until trained.. This usually works..

I am aware of 1 CCR death where, someone bought a CCR, started training which was put on hold for medical clearance.. The instructor removed critical components.. anout 6 months later (the diver just got medical clearance and was going to strat training again) decided not to wait.. He managed to get a hold of replacment components.. This diver only had classroom, and 1 pool session 6 months prior to his SOLO dive on a unit with just introductory training..

The Helium pin, I have mixed opinions about.. BTW the CIS did the same thing, no training, no pin.. Overall I like the idea because I have seen too many divers using their CCRs on mix that have no business doing the dives they were doing.. I have seen trained divers that fit this same boat as well, but if the He pin saves even 1 life I am all for it..

I would not mind seeing a compromise which limited the He to about 20% max, this would still make an END of ~30m for a 50m dive., or better yet 15% which would give an END of ~30m for a 40m dive (actual END will depend on setpoint).. This keeps the divers a bit clearer, and doesnt help them go deeper..

__________________
Joe Radomski
CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

Genesis

Well, as I pointed out, I can live with the single pin - even though I disagree with it philosophically on principle, I'd tolerate it.

The second PIN however was an instant "No Sale". That's like buying a car that will only go 30mph (electronically governed) until you pass an "advanced class" that costs $1500, and the PIN is another $500!

We could of course save considerably more than "even one life" through an outright ban on CCRs - or diving for that matter.

Be careful with the slope Joe, its quite slippery!