Meg/ Optima Comp...

***jradomski*** · 17th January 2006, 12:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

No - the software charge is $500, and the class about $1500.

I have seen mix classes considerably cheaper than $1500 from some instructors...
I get $1800 for someone with OC trimix experience or $2500 for someone without...

Nad · 17th January 2006, 12:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Personally I think the pins are a good thing.. The first pin that enables the basic functions is good for safety ion my opinion..
Normally CCR manufactures ship units to buyer minus 1 critical component so they cant use thr rig until trained.. This usually works..

One PIN it's ok:like the Ouroboros: PIN for Trimix, and just after the first 50 hours of diving.
I find it a good idea, a PIN is easier to ship or to install.

Nad

Genesis · 17th January 2006, 14:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nad)

One PIN it's ok:like the Ouroboros: PIN for Trimix, and just after the first 50 hours of diving.
I find it a good idea, a PIN is easier to ship or to install.

Nad

Then why not have the unit just unlock itself after 50 hours of diving. After all, the unit knows (or can know through its "dive time log") how long its been in the water...... If a cellphone can have a non-resettable "life timer", it ought to be trivial for a CCR controller to do the same thing....

I can see the argument for refusing to allow a hypoxic diluent entry without a secondary code OR a time-based unlock (someone might own a YBOD and buy something else - should they have to do 100 hours on it before they can use the other one the way they used to? Debateable...)

BUT - refusing to allow normoxic or "recreational Triox" (e.g. 30/30 for shallow dives) is IMHO another matter. I can dive an air dil to its MOD (unsafe though it may be due to narcosis) immediately after passing Mod 1 - does a manufacturer really want to argue in court some day that their policy of the unit refusing to accept 21/35 was for "safety reasons" when a customer buys the farm - and the incident occurred at a depth where narcosis was a factor? What possible argument is there for refusing to allow the use of 30/30?

I see no valid reason not to dive a mix with some helium in it all the time if cost is not a factor, except perhaps for 20' reef dives (we don't have any of those around here....) With the O2ptima, this is just flat-out prohibited when you're getting started with it.

Like I said, YMMV and I'm sure for some (perhaps many) folks it won't bother them.

It was enough for me, however, to scratch the O2ptima from consideration, since I've found that the only thing that companies listen to is the sound of a wallet snapping shut. If enough other people agree then the policy will change - if not, then not, but I still won't own one.

caver95 · 17th January 2006, 14:37

I dive a meg, i like being able to pack my own can. And If i run out, i am sure I can find some in cave country. I did meet a optima diver that lost his last day of diving his breather do to not having a extendair. The optima looks like a finished product and something I should shell out that kind of cash for.

The diluant add is on the exhale side of the meg so i can flush throughout the stack and copletely flush it. it being on the inhale side of the optima i wounder how complete of a flush one can realy get. but as far as training goes to get pin codes, who knows that could be a good thing. I have not yet dived an optima, but i hope to one of these days. The meg dives great.

**trob09** · 17th January 2006, 14:52

I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that after the initial run of 500 units they will stop making the Optima. Knowing that Dive Rite just discontinued the Farallon-built arrow makes the rumor plausible in my mind...

Has anyone else heard this or know more?

T
(just another meg owner stirring the mud)

mverick · 17th January 2006, 15:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that after the initial run of 500 units they will stop making the Optima. Knowing that Dive Rite just discontinued the Farallon-built arrow makes the rumor plausible in my mind...

Has anyone else heard this or know more?

T
(just another meg owner stirring the mud)

I heard that the Optima was going to be used in the movie the Cave. But during filming when it hit the cave wall. It exploded.... Just like the arrow did..... ROFLMAO.....

Sorry....... Couldn't resist... That arrow exploding into the wall was to funny...

I still think the Optima is a really nice unit. I didn't know about the 2 pins for it. THAT would tick me off too..... I don't like the baby sitters... And to tell me they needed to do that because of insurance. They didn't do it on the Meg HH's or the Shearwater. So, I'm thinking it was just a profit motive. If you follow the rules. Trimix isn't Rocket science. But that's another thread.

Here's a piccy of my meg in a nice carry on case. It doesn't fit the loop in the case. But everything else is in there. Full size Meg. Not a mini... Just need tanks....
Case that holds the FFM and loop hoses too..

Oh case is Legal too.. 9in deepx 14.5in wide hinge to clamp x 21.5in long Total 45... Just right.... UK case... Someone asked the size... I just measured..

seafox · 17th January 2006, 15:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Then why not have the unit just unlock itself after 50 hours of diving. After all, the unit knows (or can know through its "dive time log") how long its been in the water...... If a cellphone can have a non-resettable "life timer", it ought to be trivial for a CCR controller to do the same thing....

I can see the argument for refusing to allow a hypoxic diluent entry without a secondary code OR a time-based unlock (someone might own a YBOD and buy something else - should they have to do 100 hours on it before they can use the other one the way they used to? Debateable...)

BUT - refusing to allow normoxic or "recreational Triox" (e.g. 30/30 for shallow dives) is IMHO another matter. I can dive an air dil to its MOD (unsafe though it may be due to narcosis) immediately after passing Mod 1 - does a manufacturer really want to argue in court some day that their policy of the unit refusing to accept 21/35 was for "safety reasons" when a customer buys the farm - and the incident occurred at a depth where narcosis was a factor? What possible argument is there for refusing to allow the use of 30/30?

I see no valid reason not to dive a mix with some helium in it all the time if cost is not a factor, except perhaps for 20' reef dives (we don't have any of those around here....) With the O2ptima, this is just flat-out prohibited when you're getting started with it.

Like I said, YMMV and I'm sure for some (perhaps many) folks it won't bother them.

It was enough for me, however, to scratch the O2ptima from consideration, since I've found that the only thing that companies listen to is the sound of a wallet snapping shut. If enough other people agree then the policy will change - if not, then not, but I still won't own one.

I agree. My personal practice is to use mix on all dives over 100' .
There is no question in my mind it's safer.
As you pointed out, cost is not an issue for CCR. I can fill the 27 cuft diluent bottle with 21/35 for $10, vs $5 for air, and it lasts 12 to 15 hours. That's a pretty resonnable cost/hour for a major increase in safety!
I am in favor of the initial pin. But not the helium pin.
That drawback almost pushed me to the Meg, and I have friends mauling over the same debate, and leaning towards the Meg or the Prism for that reason.
I suppose that as Dive-Rite/Farallon lose sales as a result, they may rethink that strategy.
Of course there are alternatives, but they make the HH units deco information unusable.
The HH SW is pretty slick and worth using.
On the other hand there is no substitute for proper training for "deep" mix.
I like the 50 hours "auto-unlock" idea!
The waiting time for the Meg was the deciding factor for me. I got the Optima within weeks, and excluding the Helium pin drawback, I am very pleased with my decision and the performance of the Optima.

Nad · 17th January 2006, 15:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Then why not have the unit just unlock itself after 50 hours of diving. After all, the unit knows (or can know through its "dive time log") how long its been in the water...... If a cellphone can have a non-resettable "life timer", it ought to be trivial for a CCR controller to do the same thing....

I can see the argument for refusing to allow a hypoxic diluent entry without a secondary code OR a time-based unlock (someone might own a YBOD and buy something else - should they have to do 100 hours on it before they can use the other one the way they used to? Debateable...)

BUT - refusing to allow normoxic or "recreational Triox" (e.g. 30/30 for shallow dives) is IMHO another matter. I can dive an air dil to its MOD (unsafe though it may be due to narcosis) immediately after passing Mod 1 - does a manufacturer really want to argue in court some day that their policy of the unit refusing to accept 21/35 was for "safety reasons" when a customer buys the farm - and the incident occurred at a depth where narcosis was a factor? What possible argument is there for refusing to allow the use of 30/30?

I see no valid reason not to dive a mix with some helium in it all the time if cost is not a factor, except perhaps for 20' reef dives (we don't have any of those around here....) With the O2ptima, this is just flat-out prohibited when you're getting started with it.

Yep, you're right about the normoxic limitations. I think that, beside factory politics, it is easier to lock everything in place of calculate what it is possible and what's not!

Nad

barney · 17th January 2006, 15:33

Can anyone explain why the OPTIMA ADV won't allow manual addition of gas? It would appear the cover of the ADV won't depress far enough to engage the second-stage style ADV.

Explorer · 17th January 2006, 16:03

Seafox,

Do you have any pics of your Optima in a nice carry on case?

17th January 2006, 12:49	#11 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,011	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) No - the software charge is $500, and the class about $1500. I have seen mix classes considerably cheaper than $1500 from some instructors... I get $1800 for someone with OC trimix experience or $2500 for someone without... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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17th January 2006, 12:54	#12 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 976	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Personally I think the pins are a good thing.. The first pin that enables the basic functions is good for safety ion my opinion.. Normally CCR manufactures ship units to buyer minus 1 critical component so they cant use thr rig until trained.. This usually works.. One PIN it's ok:like the Ouroboros: PIN for Trimix, and just after the first 50 hours of diving. I find it a good idea, a PIN is easier to ship or to install. Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
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17th January 2006, 14:09	#13 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,397	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Quote: (Originally Posted by Nad) One PIN it's ok:like the Ouroboros: PIN for Trimix, and just after the first 50 hours of diving. I find it a good idea, a PIN is easier to ship or to install. Nad Then why not have the unit just unlock itself after 50 hours of diving. After all, the unit knows (or can know through its "dive time log") how long its been in the water...... If a cellphone can have a non-resettable "life timer", it ought to be trivial for a CCR controller to do the same thing.... I can see the argument for refusing to allow a hypoxic diluent entry without a secondary code OR a time-based unlock (someone might own a YBOD and buy something else - should they have to do 100 hours on it before they can use the other one the way they used to? Debateable...) BUT - refusing to allow normoxic or "recreational Triox" (e.g. 30/30 for shallow dives) is IMHO another matter. I can dive an air dil to its MOD (unsafe though it may be due to narcosis) immediately after passing Mod 1 - does a manufacturer really want to argue in court some day that their policy of the unit refusing to accept 21/35 was for "safety reasons" when a customer buys the farm - and the incident occurred at a depth where narcosis was a factor? What possible argument is there for refusing to allow the use of 30/30? I see no valid reason not to dive a mix with some helium in it all the time if cost is not a factor, except perhaps for 20' reef dives (we don't have any of those around here....) With the O2ptima, this is just flat-out prohibited when you're getting started with it. Like I said, YMMV and I'm sure for some (perhaps many) folks it won't bother them. It was enough for me, however, to scratch the O2ptima from consideration, since I've found that the only thing that companies listen to is the sound of a wallet snapping shut. If enough other people agree then the policy will change - if not, then not, but I still won't own one.
(Online)

17th January 2006, 14:37	#14 (permalink)
caver95 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: US Posts: 170	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... I dive a meg, i like being able to pack my own can. And If i run out, i am sure I can find some in cave country. I did meet a optima diver that lost his last day of diving his breather do to not having a extendair. The optima looks like a finished product and something I should shell out that kind of cash for. The diluant add is on the exhale side of the meg so i can flush throughout the stack and copletely flush it. it being on the inhale side of the optima i wounder how complete of a flush one can realy get. but as far as training goes to get pin codes, who knows that could be a good thing. I have not yet dived an optima, but i hope to one of these days. The meg dives great.
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17th January 2006, 14:52	#15 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 699	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that after the initial run of 500 units they will stop making the Optima. Knowing that Dive Rite just discontinued the Farallon-built arrow makes the rumor plausible in my mind... Has anyone else heard this or know more? T (just another meg owner stirring the mud)
(Offline)

17th January 2006, 15:24	#17 (permalink)
seafox 02ptima Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TORONTO, CANADA -Have "02ptima" will travel! Posts: 172	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Then why not have the unit just unlock itself after 50 hours of diving. After all, the unit knows (or can know through its "dive time log") how long its been in the water...... If a cellphone can have a non-resettable "life timer", it ought to be trivial for a CCR controller to do the same thing.... I can see the argument for refusing to allow a hypoxic diluent entry without a secondary code OR a time-based unlock (someone might own a YBOD and buy something else - should they have to do 100 hours on it before they can use the other one the way they used to? Debateable...) BUT - refusing to allow normoxic or "recreational Triox" (e.g. 30/30 for shallow dives) is IMHO another matter. I can dive an air dil to its MOD (unsafe though it may be due to narcosis) immediately after passing Mod 1 - does a manufacturer really want to argue in court some day that their policy of the unit refusing to accept 21/35 was for "safety reasons" when a customer buys the farm - and the incident occurred at a depth where narcosis was a factor? What possible argument is there for refusing to allow the use of 30/30? I see no valid reason not to dive a mix with some helium in it all the time if cost is not a factor, except perhaps for 20' reef dives (we don't have any of those around here....) With the O2ptima, this is just flat-out prohibited when you're getting started with it. Like I said, YMMV and I'm sure for some (perhaps many) folks it won't bother them. It was enough for me, however, to scratch the O2ptima from consideration, since I've found that the only thing that companies listen to is the sound of a wallet snapping shut. If enough other people agree then the policy will change - if not, then not, but I still won't own one. I agree. My personal practice is to use mix on all dives over 100' . There is no question in my mind it's safer. As you pointed out, cost is not an issue for CCR. I can fill the 27 cuft diluent bottle with 21/35 for $10, vs $5 for air, and it lasts 12 to 15 hours. That's a pretty resonnable cost/hour for a major increase in safety! I am in favor of the initial pin. But not the helium pin. That drawback almost pushed me to the Meg, and I have friends mauling over the same debate, and leaning towards the Meg or the Prism for that reason. I suppose that as Dive-Rite/Farallon lose sales as a result, they may rethink that strategy. Of course there are alternatives, but they make the HH units deco information unusable. The HH SW is pretty slick and worth using. On the other hand there is no substitute for proper training for "deep" mix. I like the 50 hours "auto-unlock" idea! The waiting time for the Meg was the deciding factor for me. I got the Optima within weeks, and excluding the Helium pin drawback, I am very pleased with my decision and the performance of the Optima. __________________ Protect the SHARKS! Excellence is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards!
(Offline)

17th January 2006, 15:26	#18 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 976	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Then why not have the unit just unlock itself after 50 hours of diving. After all, the unit knows (or can know through its "dive time log") how long its been in the water...... If a cellphone can have a non-resettable "life timer", it ought to be trivial for a CCR controller to do the same thing.... I can see the argument for refusing to allow a hypoxic diluent entry without a secondary code OR a time-based unlock (someone might own a YBOD and buy something else - should they have to do 100 hours on it before they can use the other one the way they used to? Debateable...) BUT - refusing to allow normoxic or "recreational Triox" (e.g. 30/30 for shallow dives) is IMHO another matter. I can dive an air dil to its MOD (unsafe though it may be due to narcosis) immediately after passing Mod 1 - does a manufacturer really want to argue in court some day that their policy of the unit refusing to accept 21/35 was for "safety reasons" when a customer buys the farm - and the incident occurred at a depth where narcosis was a factor? What possible argument is there for refusing to allow the use of 30/30? I see no valid reason not to dive a mix with some helium in it all the time if cost is not a factor, except perhaps for 20' reef dives (we don't have any of those around here....) With the O2ptima, this is just flat-out prohibited when you're getting started with it. Yep, you're right about the normoxic limitations. I think that, beside factory politics, it is easier to lock everything in place of calculate what it is possible and what's not! Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
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17th January 2006, 15:33	#19 (permalink)
barney Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 288	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Can anyone explain why the OPTIMA ADV won't allow manual addition of gas? It would appear the cover of the ADV won't depress far enough to engage the second-stage style ADV. __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
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17th January 2006, 16:03	#20 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 773	Re: Meg/ Optima Comp... Seafox, Do you have any pics of your Optima in a nice carry on case? __________________ 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves took turns doing handstands on the carpet
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