Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin?

trey · 19th December 2005, 19:44

Has anyone ever tried to adapt the Azimuth's comstant mass flow dosage unit to a Dolphin? Seems like a logical way to go if you plan to stay SCR...just curious if anyone has ever tried it.

Thanks, Trey

divetheworld · 19th December 2005, 20:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by trey)

Has anyone ever tried to adapt the Azimuth's comstant mass flow dosage unit to a Dolphin? Seems like a logical way to go if you plan to stay SCR...just curious if anyone has ever tried it.

Thanks, Trey

If you could get hold of one cheaply enough that it made sense to play with it, then SCR it would not be used for!!!

trey · 19th December 2005, 20:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld)

If you could get hold of one cheaply enough that it made sense to play with it, then SCR it would not be used for!!!

What do you mean? Can the Azi's CMF device be used as a manual CCR valve or something?

divetheworld · 19th December 2005, 22:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by trey)

What do you mean? Can the Azi's CMF device be used as a manual CCR valve or something?

With gas switching too, the boy catches on fast.

We used to run Dolphins CCR using a swagelok metering valve. It can be made to work non-too different with a few alterations here and there.

You see, its not strictly CMF.

Check out this weblink http://www.nobubblediving.com/azimuth.gas.htm

Hes on the board here somewhere if you want to know more.

Underwaterbear · 19th December 2005, 23:21

The Azi switch/dose block can* be used as a starting point for converting the unit to CCR ....

But you need to check the seat of the needle valve carefully by monitoring flow at a range of IPs for a reasonable time period. The capacity of the standard Azi dose unit to deliver very low flows (eg 1 lpm) is variable and dependent on the seat material. I have a suspicion that units built in different years used different materials and tolerances.

My old unit (now MHDs CCR Azi) was able to deliver 0 lpm but it was rather unstable at around 1 lpm.

Speaking generally I would say that the Azi dose unit adjustment is just too coarse for use as a CMF CCR dose unit.

E-man · 20th December 2005, 04:28

I agree with underwaterbear...it COULD be used for o2 addtion on a ccr, but ive seen too much variation on it to trust my life to it.

***caveseeker7*** · 20th December 2005, 16:05

Trey, OMG hardware tends to be pretty expensive. They build good stuff and are a military contractor. Having followed your various threads and ideas/questions, I wonder if you shouldn't just save some more and get a CCR that will suit your needs, get trained on it and dive it safely.

If you want to convert your Dolphin I recommend to research the subject well, stick with conversions that have been succesful in the past and take up people like Ron Micjan who offer help and have the experience in both converting the unit and diving it safely.

trey · 20th December 2005, 18:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Trey, OMG hardware tends to be pretty expensive. They build good stuff and are a military contractor. Having followed your various threads and ideas/questions, I wonder if you shouldn't just save some more and get a CCR that will suit your needs, get trained on it and dive it safely.

If you want to convert your Dolphin I recommend to research the subject well, stick with conversions that have been succesful in the past and take up people like Ron Micjan who offer help and have the experience in both converting the unit and diving it safely.

Actually Stefan, Ron was the first person I talked to when I was looking to go Rebreather...he is GREAT, but the local IANTD guy talked me out of it (because there is no real cert for it). See, some of the diving I am wanting to do, I may not be able to get on a dive boat unless I have a real cert for my unit. So, I had planned to get a SK. Unfortunately, none of the pricing that was quoted to me for a new unit has actually come to fruition and everyone wants over $3k still for their used ones...I sold my Miata to buy one for God's sakes!!! I just can't justify buying used for over 70% of new retail...

So after much hunting and missing deals, I finally decided to dust off the SCR Dolphin and TMIshop backplate (since I already had it) and get certified on something already! The whole idea about the standard reg on my Dolphin was to get around buying/using a stock small Draeger tank (my unit has very short hoses) and to make my unit more travel friendly...and an instructor around these parts said he had seen it done before and I should be able to use any reg I wanted. However, after further inspection, we both found out that the reg on the Dolphin IS NOT replacable (at least not very easily) with a standard reg for SCR use. Mostly b/c the IP is around 240PSI.

So, the hunt was on again...and I read some more about the Azi CMF unit and thought, "Jeez...this is so simple...why couldn't I do that with the Dolphin?" It was just another random and radical idea and I was curious if anyone had ever done it...seems like it would make the Dolphin so much more simple.
Sonic orifice...Mach 1 gas...whatever...

At last, I remembered yesterday that I had seen some postings for an Azi for sale on the board here...and also that the Azi was the unit origionally recommended by the local IANTD instructor that I'm taking from. Here's hoping that all this crap is history...because I think I've made a deal for one of them! As long as the pics look good, I'm gonna be the newest Azi diver!

Thanks to everyone who has helped me out by answering questions, giving commentary, saving me from making an aweful Rebreather blunder (ie, hurting myself), and just the general knowledge base that is provided for RB divers here! This site rocks and you guys make it rock! Hopefully I'll see some of you underwater soon, and while not completely bubble free, at least several fewer than what I used to make...

-Trey

decoweenie · 20th December 2005, 18:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by trey)

I just can't justify buying used for over 70% of new retail...

Quick friendly word of advice to you...

Don't apply whatever "rule-of-thumb" you are using when trying to buy used Rebreather units!

They are not used cars or used motorcycles!

Some POS units will depreciate so fast that you will end up giving someone money to take them away from you. Some won't drop a few hundred dollars from their original 4-figure amount.

You don't have to trust me, but I could honestly say that I have probably bought and sold more personal units than most people here.

There is no free lunch in the Rebreather market. You want to pay peanuts, you will get peanuts. And the worse thing is they are also live-support equipments...

trey · 20th December 2005, 18:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Quick friendly word of advice to you...

Don't apply whatever "rule-of-thumb" you are using when trying to buy used Rebreather units!

They are not used cars or used motorcycles!

Some POS units will depreciate so fast that you will end up giving someone money to take them away from you. Some won't drop a few hundred dollars from their original 4-figure amount.

You don't have to trust me, but I could honestly say that I have probably bought and sold more personal units than most people here.

There is no free lunch in the Rebreather market. You want to pay peanuts, you will get peanuts. And the worse thing is they are also live-support equipments...

Only rule-of-thumb I'm using is that I'm not gonna pay $3xxx for something I can buy brand new at $3600...for $600 it's worth the piece of mind to me that I'm gonna get all the parts, warranty, etc and I'll be able to ugly up the unit myself...I paid my dues in retail for too long to ever pay retail for anything ever again...

RBs are expensive, that much is true, and I don't have alot of dough to play with...so you'll have to forgive me for being 'cheap'. Good news is though, if you're willing to wait long enough (which did almost drive me bananas), someone will sell good equipment at a realistic price...speaking of which, I may have a Dolphin for sale very soon...all offers are welcome!

-T

19th December 2005, 19:44	#1 (permalink)
trey Total NOOB Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 108	Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Has anyone ever tried to adapt the Azimuth's comstant mass flow dosage unit to a Dolphin? Seems like a logical way to go if you plan to stay SCR...just curious if anyone has ever tried it. Thanks, Trey
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19th December 2005, 20:31	#2 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,537	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Quote: (Originally Posted by trey) Has anyone ever tried to adapt the Azimuth's comstant mass flow dosage unit to a Dolphin? Seems like a logical way to go if you plan to stay SCR...just curious if anyone has ever tried it. Thanks, Trey If you could get hold of one cheaply enough that it made sense to play with it, then SCR it would not be used for!!! __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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19th December 2005, 20:37	#3 (permalink)
trey Total NOOB Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 108	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld) If you could get hold of one cheaply enough that it made sense to play with it, then SCR it would not be used for!!! What do you mean? Can the Azi's CMF device be used as a manual CCR valve or something?
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19th December 2005, 22:45	#4 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,537	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Quote: (Originally Posted by trey) What do you mean? Can the Azi's CMF device be used as a manual CCR valve or something? With gas switching too, the boy catches on fast. We used to run Dolphins CCR using a swagelok metering valve. It can be made to work non-too different with a few alterations here and there. You see, its not strictly CMF. Check out this weblink http://www.nobubblediving.com/azimuth.gas.htm Hes on the board here somewhere if you want to know more. __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe Last edited by divetheworld : 19th December 2005 at 22:48.
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19th December 2005, 23:21	#5 (permalink)
Underwaterbear A Prismer in Megland Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 168	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? The Azi switch/dose block can* be used as a starting point for converting the unit to CCR .... But you need to check the seat of the needle valve carefully by monitoring flow at a range of IPs for a reasonable time period. The capacity of the standard Azi dose unit to deliver very low flows (eg 1 lpm) is variable and dependent on the seat material. I have a suspicion that units built in different years used different materials and tolerances. My old unit (now MHDs CCR Azi) was able to deliver 0 lpm but it was rather unstable at around 1 lpm. Speaking generally I would say that the Azi dose unit adjustment is just too coarse for use as a CMF CCR dose unit.
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20th December 2005, 04:28	#6 (permalink)
E-man On the loop! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Titan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Eastern Coast ;) Posts: 212	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? I agree with underwaterbear...it COULD be used for o2 addtion on a ccr, but ive seen too much variation on it to trust my life to it.
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20th December 2005, 16:05	#7 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Trey, OMG hardware tends to be pretty expensive. They build good stuff and are a military contractor. Having followed your various threads and ideas/questions, I wonder if you shouldn't just save some more and get a CCR that will suit your needs, get trained on it and dive it safely. If you want to convert your Dolphin I recommend to research the subject well, stick with conversions that have been succesful in the past and take up people like Ron Micjan who offer help and have the experience in both converting the unit and diving it safely. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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20th December 2005, 18:16	#8 (permalink)
trey Total NOOB Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 108	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Trey, OMG hardware tends to be pretty expensive. They build good stuff and are a military contractor. Having followed your various threads and ideas/questions, I wonder if you shouldn't just save some more and get a CCR that will suit your needs, get trained on it and dive it safely. If you want to convert your Dolphin I recommend to research the subject well, stick with conversions that have been succesful in the past and take up people like Ron Micjan who offer help and have the experience in both converting the unit and diving it safely. Actually Stefan, Ron was the first person I talked to when I was looking to go Rebreather...he is GREAT, but the local IANTD guy talked me out of it (because there is no real cert for it). See, some of the diving I am wanting to do, I may not be able to get on a dive boat unless I have a real cert for my unit. So, I had planned to get a SK. Unfortunately, none of the pricing that was quoted to me for a new unit has actually come to fruition and everyone wants over $3k still for their used ones...I sold my Miata to buy one for God's sakes!!! I just can't justify buying used for over 70% of new retail... So after much hunting and missing deals, I finally decided to dust off the SCR Dolphin and TMIshop backplate (since I already had it) and get certified on something already! The whole idea about the standard reg on my Dolphin was to get around buying/using a stock small Draeger tank (my unit has very short hoses) and to make my unit more travel friendly...and an instructor around these parts said he had seen it done before and I should be able to use any reg I wanted. However, after further inspection, we both found out that the reg on the Dolphin IS NOT replacable (at least not very easily) with a standard reg for SCR use. Mostly b/c the IP is around 240PSI. So, the hunt was on again...and I read some more about the Azi CMF unit and thought, "Jeez...this is so simple...why couldn't I do that with the Dolphin?" It was just another random and radical idea and I was curious if anyone had ever done it...seems like it would make the Dolphin so much more simple. Sonic orifice...Mach 1 gas...whatever... At last, I remembered yesterday that I had seen some postings for an Azi for sale on the board here...and also that the Azi was the unit origionally recommended by the local IANTD instructor that I'm taking from. Here's hoping that all this crap is history...because I think I've made a deal for one of them! As long as the pics look good, I'm gonna be the newest Azi diver! Thanks to everyone who has helped me out by answering questions, giving commentary, saving me from making an aweful Rebreather blunder (ie, hurting myself), and just the general knowledge base that is provided for RB divers here! This site rocks and you guys make it rock! Hopefully I'll see some of you underwater soon, and while not completely bubble free, at least several fewer than what I used to make... -Trey
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20th December 2005, 18:37	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Quote: (Originally Posted by trey) I just can't justify buying used for over 70% of new retail... Quick friendly word of advice to you... Don't apply whatever "rule-of-thumb" you are using when trying to buy used Rebreather units! They are not used cars or used motorcycles! Some POS units will depreciate so fast that you will end up giving someone money to take them away from you. Some won't drop a few hundred dollars from their original 4-figure amount. You don't have to trust me, but I could honestly say that I have probably bought and sold more personal units than most people here. There is no free lunch in the Rebreather market. You want to pay peanuts, you will get peanuts. And the worse thing is they are also live-support equipments... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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20th December 2005, 18:59	#10 (permalink)
trey Total NOOB Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 108	Re: Azimuth CMF Dosage unit adapted for a Dolphin? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Quick friendly word of advice to you... Don't apply whatever "rule-of-thumb" you are using when trying to buy used Rebreather units! They are not used cars or used motorcycles! Some POS units will depreciate so fast that you will end up giving someone money to take them away from you. Some won't drop a few hundred dollars from their original 4-figure amount. You don't have to trust me, but I could honestly say that I have probably bought and sold more personal units than most people here. There is no free lunch in the Rebreather market. You want to pay peanuts, you will get peanuts. And the worse thing is they are also live-support equipments... Only rule-of-thumb I'm using is that I'm not gonna pay $3xxx for something I can buy brand new at $3600...for $600 it's worth the piece of mind to me that I'm gonna get all the parts, warranty, etc and I'll be able to ugly up the unit myself...I paid my dues in retail for too long to ever pay retail for anything ever again... RBs are expensive, that much is true, and I don't have alot of dough to play with...so you'll have to forgive me for being 'cheap'. Good news is though, if you're willing to wait long enough (which did almost drive me bananas), someone will sell good equipment at a realistic price...speaking of which, I may have a Dolphin for sale very soon...all offers are welcome! -T
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