New detectors

joshhan2000 · 18th December 2005, 03:52

Ok I have it the three things that need to be improved on in a reabreather. First thing is a good CO2 detection system. I know that there has been a lot of buzz on it but they all just do not work and the ones that do will not work right. So after looking at the problem carefully I have come up with a new method of doing it. Instead of using an IR beam I am use a special chemical mix that can be measured by a probe. Can not go into details about it but I can just say I have the theory down and have show it to some people (PHD’s) and they have all said it could work.. The second thing that is needed for a rebreather system is a way to tell how much scrubber you have used and how much time you have left on it. There is a temp stick but that is not accurate way of telling. I have a way to do this too Use chemical properties of the scrubber I can tell you imperial cal how much you have used and how much you still have left to use. You could even put in bad chemical and it would tell you. The third and for most important is new scrubber chemical. I have a few ideas on this as well but still in the theory phase but I will be working on it. The chemical has to adsorb Co2 and be reusable at the same time. I can make all of these things with the right funding.

decoweenie · 18th December 2005, 05:50

Could you share your qualifications ?

There will be skeptics out there who will say "Talk is cheap!", And yes, I could make anything with the right funding as well.

abowie · 18th December 2005, 06:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000)

I can make all of these things with the right funding.

I love a man with ideas.

Get it right and win the NOAA prize

***caveseeker7*** · 18th December 2005, 06:23

That's what he's shootin' for.

AD_ward9 · 18th December 2005, 06:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000)

Ok I have it the three things that need to be improved on in a reabreather. First thing is a good CO2 detection system. I know that there has been a lot of buzz on it but they all just do not work and the ones that do will not work right. So after looking at the problem carefully I have come up with a new method of doing it. Instead of using an IR beam I am use a special chemical mix that can be measured by a probe. Can not go into details about it but I can just say I have the theory down and have show it to some people (PHD’s) and they have all said it could work.. The second thing that is needed for a rebreather system is a way to tell how much scrubber you have used and how much time you have left on it. There is a temp stick but that is not accurate way of telling. I have a way to do this too Use chemical properties of the scrubber I can tell you imperial cal how much you have used and how much you still have left to use. You could even put in bad chemical and it would tell you. The third and for most important is new scrubber chemical. I have a few ideas on this as well but still in the theory phase but I will be working on it. The chemical has to adsorb Co2 and be reusable at the same time. I can make all of these things with the right funding.

Worth checking out the roads some others have gone down and abandoned, so you can refine your solutions.

1. If it is a wet solution, like measuring the acidity of a bicarb solution using a Ph probe, that is going to be mighty difficult to maintain in a rebreather even with hydrophobic gas permeable membranes.

Also, ensure it passes the "Chicken test" (the test that made Rolls Royce bankrupt, involving firing a frozen chicken from a gun into at a turbine running at full speed - it destroyed the RB211 engine because it had carbon blades: someone did not read the spec well enough). So here is the CO2 spec, or at least the nasty bit:

CO2 sensors have been available for years. The problem is EN14143 require a 3% accuracy, across the entire depth range and gas mixes. That has only been achieved fairly recently. It must tolerate condensation, but that is an easy one to solve (mount it on the scrubber stick, which gets hot, and use hydrophobic membranes). There is a full publication of this solution in (slow) progress on the O.R. area of this web site.

2. Sol-gels are the real solution to number 1. Problem is cost of the UV source, but gels working with lower frequency excitation are starting to emerge.

3. There are some solutions about to the scrubber issue. See 1 and 2 above. The debate on temp sticks is that APD claim temperature alone is enough, Iain Middlebrook and I (independent from each other) claim you need temperature, flow and gas mix information. When you have all of that, to check scrubber life and scrubber health can be done with the circuitry we posted onto the Open Revolution area plus appropriate firmware.

4. Before you speak with anyone, file a provisional patent.

5. Work checking with engineers with PhDs rather than scientists with PhDs. The former make products, the latter make papers.

Just my 2c, to save frustration later.
Cheers,
Alex

joshhan2000 · 18th December 2005, 08:43

None of you have even come close to the way I am doing it. I have a BS in chemistry from evergreen college.

decoweenie · 18th December 2005, 09:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000)

I have a BS in chemistry from evergreen college.

Yes! Fresh from college and ready to conquer the world.

I barely remember how that feels like...

I do wish the best and hope you found something useful!

joshhan2000 · 18th December 2005, 09:32

Maybe looking at it in a new way is all that is needed to solve the problems. All I can say is that I am working with a rebreather manufacture right now and hoping that they will allow me to develop this technology for them. If no one in the business will fund my research I will go to grad school and do it, but one way or other I will get the tech out there and will improve diving for all

decoweenie · 18th December 2005, 10:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000)

...All I can say is that I am working with a rebreather manufacture right now...

I thought you are still trying to get a job with ISC. Have they hire you yet ?

abowie · 18th December 2005, 11:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000)

None of you have even come close to the way I am doing it. I have a BS in chemistry from evergreen college.

My advice?

If you really think this thing will work, keep quiet about it, do the development work yourself and slap a patent on it quickly.

Otherwise sooner or later you'll end up on the wrong end of a temporary employment contract with nothing to show for your hard work and ideas but bragging rights on internet rebreather forums, while your former employer makes it a commercial success.

18th December 2005, 03:52	#1 (permalink)
joshhan2000 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: olympia wa usa Posts: 46	New detectors Ok I have it the three things that need to be improved on in a reabreather. First thing is a good CO2 detection system. I know that there has been a lot of buzz on it but they all just do not work and the ones that do will not work right. So after looking at the problem carefully I have come up with a new method of doing it. Instead of using an IR beam I am use a special chemical mix that can be measured by a probe. Can not go into details about it but I can just say I have the theory down and have show it to some people (PHD’s) and they have all said it could work.. The second thing that is needed for a rebreather system is a way to tell how much scrubber you have used and how much time you have left on it. There is a temp stick but that is not accurate way of telling. I have a way to do this too Use chemical properties of the scrubber I can tell you imperial cal how much you have used and how much you still have left to use. You could even put in bad chemical and it would tell you. The third and for most important is new scrubber chemical. I have a few ideas on this as well but still in the theory phase but I will be working on it. The chemical has to adsorb Co2 and be reusable at the same time. I can make all of these things with the right funding.
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18th December 2005, 05:50	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: New detectors Could you share your qualifications ? There will be skeptics out there who will say "Talk is cheap!", And yes, I could make anything with the right funding as well. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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18th December 2005, 06:08	#3 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 573	Re: New detectors Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000) I can make all of these things with the right funding. I love a man with ideas. Get it right and win the NOAA prize __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
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18th December 2005, 06:23	#4 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,287	Re: New detectors That's what he's shootin' for. __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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18th December 2005, 06:41	#5 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,553	Re: New detectors Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000) Ok I have it the three things that need to be improved on in a reabreather. First thing is a good CO2 detection system. I know that there has been a lot of buzz on it but they all just do not work and the ones that do will not work right. So after looking at the problem carefully I have come up with a new method of doing it. Instead of using an IR beam I am use a special chemical mix that can be measured by a probe. Can not go into details about it but I can just say I have the theory down and have show it to some people (PHD’s) and they have all said it could work.. The second thing that is needed for a rebreather system is a way to tell how much scrubber you have used and how much time you have left on it. There is a temp stick but that is not accurate way of telling. I have a way to do this too Use chemical properties of the scrubber I can tell you imperial cal how much you have used and how much you still have left to use. You could even put in bad chemical and it would tell you. The third and for most important is new scrubber chemical. I have a few ideas on this as well but still in the theory phase but I will be working on it. The chemical has to adsorb Co2 and be reusable at the same time. I can make all of these things with the right funding. Worth checking out the roads some others have gone down and abandoned, so you can refine your solutions. 1. If it is a wet solution, like measuring the acidity of a bicarb solution using a Ph probe, that is going to be mighty difficult to maintain in a rebreather even with hydrophobic gas permeable membranes. Also, ensure it passes the "Chicken test" (the test that made Rolls Royce bankrupt, involving firing a frozen chicken from a gun into at a turbine running at full speed - it destroyed the RB211 engine because it had carbon blades: someone did not read the spec well enough). So here is the CO2 spec, or at least the nasty bit: CO2 sensors have been available for years. The problem is EN14143 require a 3% accuracy, across the entire depth range and gas mixes. That has only been achieved fairly recently. It must tolerate condensation, but that is an easy one to solve (mount it on the scrubber stick, which gets hot, and use hydrophobic membranes). There is a full publication of this solution in (slow) progress on the O.R. area of this web site. 2. Sol-gels are the real solution to number 1. Problem is cost of the UV source, but gels working with lower frequency excitation are starting to emerge. 3. There are some solutions about to the scrubber issue. See 1 and 2 above. The debate on temp sticks is that APD claim temperature alone is enough, Iain Middlebrook and I (independent from each other) claim you need temperature, flow and gas mix information. When you have all of that, to check scrubber life and scrubber health can be done with the circuitry we posted onto the Open Revolution area plus appropriate firmware. 4. Before you speak with anyone, file a provisional patent. 5. Work checking with engineers with PhDs rather than scientists with PhDs. The former make products, the latter make papers. Just my 2c, to save frustration later. Cheers, Alex
(Offline)

18th December 2005, 08:43	#6 (permalink)
joshhan2000 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: olympia wa usa Posts: 46	Re: New detectors None of you have even come close to the way I am doing it. I have a BS in chemistry from evergreen college.
(Offline)

18th December 2005, 09:18	#7 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: New detectors Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000) I have a BS in chemistry from evergreen college. Yes! Fresh from college and ready to conquer the world. I barely remember how that feels like... I do wish the best and hope you found something useful! __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

18th December 2005, 09:32	#8 (permalink)
joshhan2000 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: olympia wa usa Posts: 46	Re: New detectors Maybe looking at it in a new way is all that is needed to solve the problems. All I can say is that I am working with a rebreather manufacture right now and hoping that they will allow me to develop this technology for them. If no one in the business will fund my research I will go to grad school and do it, but one way or other I will get the tech out there and will improve diving for all
(Offline)

18th December 2005, 10:25	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: New detectors Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000) ...All I can say is that I am working with a rebreather manufacture right now... I thought you are still trying to get a job with ISC. Have they hire you yet ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

18th December 2005, 11:43	#10 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 573	Re: New detectors Quote: (Originally Posted by joshhan2000) None of you have even come close to the way I am doing it. I have a BS in chemistry from evergreen college. My advice? If you really think this thing will work, keep quiet about it, do the development work yourself and slap a patent on it quickly. Otherwise sooner or later you'll end up on the wrong end of a temporary employment contract with nothing to show for your hard work and ideas but bragging rights on internet rebreather forums, while your former employer makes it a commercial success. __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
(Offline)

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