eCCR vs. OC fatalities

hchoat

I'll spare you all the mental gymnastics that led me to this question, but...

Has anyone looked at the numbers of OC (tech) fatalities vs. eCCR fatalities froma statistical point of view? I would be curious to know if there really ARE more fatalities or if is only seems to be more, since it is a smaller subcommunity.

Nad

I don't really care!
In every forum, in every manner, everyone, anytime etc... start a thread like this one. Death there, accident there, drawnig there,CCR more dangerous,OC safer,...
You know how many fantastic dives and activities and POSITIVE points a rebreather has? Start with them.

About the danger to dive rebreathers? Yes it COULD be dangerous, exactly like to ride a motorbike at 300km/h on a highway instead of 120km/h:
if you don't like risk keep going with OC
if you don't like big risks then go with CC but stay away from the limits
if your personal target is more important than the calculated risks then push the limits
if you wish a suicide take a CCR,an OC, a motorbike or whateverelse and push constatly the limits.

Best,
Nad

__________________
The Impossible is often the Untried

Mdemon

Yup. Done to death. (Padon the pun! )

One of the problems is you will be comparing apples with oranges and by the time you have tried to adjust for that, the results will probably be meaningless.

__________________
www.southwestmafia.com

It's as easy as abc;

a) "Carry adequate bailout"

b) "If in doubt, bail out"

c) "Always know your PO2"

If you find that hard, stick to crochet.

"Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"

hchoat

Gosh- thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it.

I had a conversation with a friend this past weekend which devolved into the standard "you'l kill yourself on one of those things" arguement. I was looking for the information so that next time I would have an intellegent rebuttal.

Next time I'll keep my questions to myself.

Jordan

Those were mental gymnastics??? And I thought I had it rough

__________________
Is it clear? No. Well, let's go anyways.

"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." Thomas Jefferson

hchoat

Nah- that was the conversatin that sparked the mental gymnastics...

JPJones

You had a good question and I wish I had a good answer for you. It was a lot easier for Sheck to do it because most of the accidents happened the same area and the recoveries were done by a few people who knew each other. I don't think there are good enough records for the Tech or Rebreather accidents to do it justice.

But compared to OC deep cave diving the body count is not that bad. If you get trained and follow it I think that it is much safer than OC in a cave. But like OC deep cave if you make careless a mistake you can die.

__________________
NSS/CDS Training Chairman
www.jpjscuba.com

schford

Yes I also agree a good question, it would be nice to be able to say to the doom sayers that yes indeed there were y rebreather deaths which is x% of total population which is lower or the same as OC etc.

Stuart

PS I think Nad might have misread what you were trying to get out that RBs might potentially be safer than tpeople think.

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Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law

The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had.

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Ken

You have to take into consideration the experience of the forum members here. Many have seen this debate endless times on other lists, forums and in conversations with non-ccr users... much like the one you probably had.

In the end, changing anyone's perspective (regardless of proof) is a difficult proposition. These days when someone wants to get into it with me I simply guide them to place where they can do their own research. The argument starter usually never does the homework.

Besides, time is valuable and who has time to fritter away on folks outside of the Rebreather community who love to pull chains here and there.

caveseeker7

Woa people, what happened to 'a friendly board'?

Heather, I second JP. There is, unfortunately, not enough good data available regarding accidents and fatalities ... not even numbers. While most of the accidents make it into public eventually, the number of Rebreather divers, dives and hours of diving doesn't. Most manufacturers guard their production numbers closely, plus there are quite a lot of ex-mil units out there being used.

The same is probably true for 'technical diving' using OC equipment.

The BSAC annual report on accidents does list RBs separately, but I don't remember it listing technical dives. The link to it is somewhere here in one of the forums, worth having a look at.

So unfortunately no information for intelligent rebuttal.
Only bright spot here is that there is no information for
intelligent attack in the first place.

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Cheers
Stefan



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