Cell warning !!

Pierre Farrugia · 8th January 2006, 10:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Yes thats the norm. You can get cheaper crimpers - but a good pair of pliers can also do a reasonable job if you are careful. I usually expose more wire and fold it back on itself before crimping.

With a sharp knife its sometimes possible to prise open the crimps and reuse the connector if you cant get new ones.

You might want to brush some laquer over it when your done to keep moisture causing future corrosion

Thanks Mike as usual! Where exactly should I put some laquer, as this might become as an insulator and the plug will not come in contact!

Also you have some very nice pics on your website, of which I visit often

***jradomski*** · 8th January 2006, 10:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia)

Hello all,

Just checked Molex connector and Crimp and I think I found the problem. When I tried to clean the wire that can been seen in the crimp, it just flaked away! So it was all corroded. This can be seen in the pic below blue wire and the other is not that well either! So I will have to change them all!

As it can be seen on the pic all my YBOD crimps are crimped on the plastic insulator, is this the norm? Should I use a special tool to crimp these out again? At work we had a very expensive tool to do these of which I cannot borrow ;(

Pierre.. If the right crimper is used (and its the proper type of terminal) there is actually no need to expose any wire.. you can then put some slicon sealer over it..

If there is any wire exposed you are giving it a surface to start the corrosion.. The negative teminal tends to get more corrosion than the positive terminal as seen in your pic.. The wires have to be totally tinned

before you put a new connector on you have to strip it back to good wire..

If you use a pair of pliers, then all you can really do is crush it flat, the right tool (for a penetrating pin) bends the ends of the crimp area inwards and penetrates the insulation, others form around at a specific height and the second section is the contact point..

paulraymaekers · 8th January 2006, 11:55

hello, the 'shrinking' I see on the picture does not seem perfect for underwater application

water can enter into the wire, corrosion takes place and you always have connectionproblems after some time

the way I always do it:

I strip 1 mm of the wire, and put solder on the end: I wait some time with the hot solderiron, so the plastic melts a bit around the soldered wire, and the solder enters a bit inside the plastic: this way I 'seal' the end of the wire, and even with pressuredifference, no water passes trough the wire (I tested it in a pressure-pot!)

then I crimp the wire with a molex-crimper, only the first clamp of the connector around the plastic, the firther clamps around the soldered wire (this distance is automaticaly so when you use the correct crimptool)
(from what I see on the picture the blue plastic is to far in the molex connector)
at last, before I slide the 2 connectors in the connector housing, I put grease on the connectors, to prevent corrosion on the soldered wires and the connector

this way they last a very long time!! :-) (but it is more work to do it properly)

regards
paul

Genesis · 8th January 2006, 16:46

Grrrrr....

That wire is not (from the image) tinned.

This (turning to powder) is the expected result for bare copper wire in a marine environment.

You can try to seal it until the cows come home, but you are now relying on the integrity of that seal. Far better to rely on both a seal AND some inherent corrosion resistance.

Is that wiring accessible for complete replacement? If so try some 100% tinned marine-grade stuff....

Pierre Farrugia · 8th January 2006, 17:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Grrrrr....

That wire is not (from the image) tinned.

This (turning to powder) is the expected result for bare copper wire in a marine environment.

You can try to seal it until the cows come home, but you are now relying on the integrity of that seal. Far better to rely on both a seal AND some inherent corrosion resistance.

Is that wiring accessible for complete replacement? If so try some 100% tinned marine-grade stuff....

Unfortunatly wire cannot be comtletely replaced...I think!

Pierre Farrugia · 8th January 2006, 17:05

Hello,

Just entered Molex website http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/mole...=0&showLink=no

And here nowhere is written to crimp the connector on insulation, does ADP use a different Molex connector or crimp tool ?

Patto_chan · 8th January 2006, 18:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia)

Hello,
And here nowhere is written to crimp the connector on insulation, does ADP use a different Molex connector or crimp tool ?

My 2c. In my experience in the auto components industry it is standard practice to have a terminal half clamped onto the bare wire and half clamped onto the insulation. This makes it more difficult to pull off the terminal by accident.

paulraymaekers · 8th January 2006, 19:18

hello pierre,

that is correct, normally you crimp around an 'unstripped' wire, and the second (and somethimes the third) clamp perforates the isolation and makes contact whith the wire; the first clamp goes around the isolation and fixes the wire
BUT: that is ok for dry environnement

in humid environnnement, that is not ok: how many inspiration divers have already got problems with their molexes??
the individual wires, even tinned, are very easy corroded: a solid tinned wire, and isolation aroud the non-tinned wires, protects better
that is the reason for my method: the first clamp fixes the plastic, but does not perforate is, so the sealing stays

regards
paul

***jradomski*** · 8th January 2006, 21:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

hello, the 'shrinking' I see on the picture does not seem perfect for underwater application

water can enter into the wire, corrosion takes place and you always have connectionproblems after some time

the way I always do it:

I strip 1 mm of the wire, and put solder on the end: I wait some time with the hot solderiron, so the plastic melts a bit around the soldered wire, and the solder enters a bit inside the plastic: this way I 'seal' the end of the wire, and even with pressuredifference, no water passes trough the wire (I tested it in a pressure-pot!)

then I crimp the wire with a molex-crimper, only the first clamp of the connector around the plastic, the firther clamps around the soldered wire (this distance is automaticaly so when you use the correct crimptool)
(from what I see on the picture the blue plastic is to far in the molex connector)
at last, before I slide the 2 connectors in the connector housing, I put grease on the connectors, to prevent corrosion on the soldered wires and the connector

this way they last a very long time!! :-) (but it is more work to do it properly)

regards
paul

This method does work well to tin the wire in prep for the crimp.. I should point out though a good coating of flux helps ALOT...

James Appel · 8th January 2006, 21:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Obviously its not a good idea to change all 3 cells at the same time unless its absolutely necessary

Why is it not a good idea to change all 3 cells at the same time? I was planning to change all 3 cells when they reached 12 months old, is this not a good idea (even if they are working well).

8th January 2006, 10:30	#21 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Yes thats the norm. You can get cheaper crimpers - but a good pair of pliers can also do a reasonable job if you are careful. I usually expose more wire and fold it back on itself before crimping. With a sharp knife its sometimes possible to prise open the crimps and reuse the connector if you cant get new ones. You might want to brush some laquer over it when your done to keep moisture causing future corrosion Thanks Mike as usual! Where exactly should I put some laquer, as this might become as an insulator and the plug will not come in contact! Also you have some very nice pics on your website, of which I visit often __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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8th January 2006, 10:39	#22 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,898	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia) Hello all, Just checked Molex connector and Crimp and I think I found the problem. When I tried to clean the wire that can been seen in the crimp, it just flaked away! So it was all corroded. This can be seen in the pic below blue wire and the other is not that well either! So I will have to change them all! As it can be seen on the pic all my YBOD crimps are crimped on the plastic insulator, is this the norm? Should I use a special tool to crimp these out again? At work we had a very expensive tool to do these of which I cannot borrow ;( Pierre.. If the right crimper is used (and its the proper type of terminal) there is actually no need to expose any wire.. you can then put some slicon sealer over it.. If there is any wire exposed you are giving it a surface to start the corrosion.. The negative teminal tends to get more corrosion than the positive terminal as seen in your pic.. The wires have to be totally tinned before you put a new connector on you have to strip it back to good wire.. If you use a pair of pliers, then all you can really do is crush it flat, the right tool (for a penetrating pin) bends the ends of the crimp area inwards and penetrates the insulation, others form around at a specific height and the second section is the contact point.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 8th January 2006 at 21:19. Reason: clarified post
(Online)

8th January 2006, 11:55	#23 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,439	Re: Cell warning !! hello, the 'shrinking' I see on the picture does not seem perfect for underwater application water can enter into the wire, corrosion takes place and you always have connectionproblems after some time the way I always do it: I strip 1 mm of the wire, and put solder on the end: I wait some time with the hot solderiron, so the plastic melts a bit around the soldered wire, and the solder enters a bit inside the plastic: this way I 'seal' the end of the wire, and even with pressuredifference, no water passes trough the wire (I tested it in a pressure-pot!) then I crimp the wire with a molex-crimper, only the first clamp of the connector around the plastic, the firther clamps around the soldered wire (this distance is automaticaly so when you use the correct crimptool) (from what I see on the picture the blue plastic is to far in the molex connector) at last, before I slide the 2 connectors in the connector housing, I put grease on the connectors, to prevent corrosion on the soldered wires and the connector this way they last a very long time!! :-) (but it is more work to do it properly) regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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8th January 2006, 16:46	#24 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,394	Re: Cell warning !! Grrrrr.... That wire is not (from the image) tinned. This (turning to powder) is the expected result for bare copper wire in a marine environment. You can try to seal it until the cows come home, but you are now relying on the integrity of that seal. Far better to rely on both a seal AND some inherent corrosion resistance. Is that wiring accessible for complete replacement? If so try some 100% tinned marine-grade stuff....
(Offline)

8th January 2006, 17:00	#25 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Grrrrr.... That wire is not (from the image) tinned. This (turning to powder) is the expected result for bare copper wire in a marine environment. You can try to seal it until the cows come home, but you are now relying on the integrity of that seal. Far better to rely on both a seal AND some inherent corrosion resistance. Is that wiring accessible for complete replacement? If so try some 100% tinned marine-grade stuff.... Unfortunatly wire cannot be comtletely replaced...I think! __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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8th January 2006, 17:05	#26 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Cell warning !! Hello, Just entered Molex website http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/mole...=0&showLink=no And here nowhere is written to crimp the connector on insulation, does ADP use a different Molex connector or crimp tool ? __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
(Offline)

8th January 2006, 18:21	#27 (permalink)
Patto_chan Annoying fish since 1992 Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 66	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia) Hello, And here nowhere is written to crimp the connector on insulation, does ADP use a different Molex connector or crimp tool ? My 2c. In my experience in the auto components industry it is standard practice to have a terminal half clamped onto the bare wire and half clamped onto the insulation. This makes it more difficult to pull off the terminal by accident.
(Offline)

8th January 2006, 19:18	#28 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,439	Re: Cell warning !! hello pierre, that is correct, normally you crimp around an 'unstripped' wire, and the second (and somethimes the third) clamp perforates the isolation and makes contact whith the wire; the first clamp goes around the isolation and fixes the wire BUT: that is ok for dry environnement in humid environnnement, that is not ok: how many inspiration divers have already got problems with their molexes?? the individual wires, even tinned, are very easy corroded: a solid tinned wire, and isolation aroud the non-tinned wires, protects better that is the reason for my method: the first clamp fixes the plastic, but does not perforate is, so the sealing stays regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Offline)

8th January 2006, 21:25	#29 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,898	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) hello, the 'shrinking' I see on the picture does not seem perfect for underwater application water can enter into the wire, corrosion takes place and you always have connectionproblems after some time the way I always do it: I strip 1 mm of the wire, and put solder on the end: I wait some time with the hot solderiron, so the plastic melts a bit around the soldered wire, and the solder enters a bit inside the plastic: this way I 'seal' the end of the wire, and even with pressuredifference, no water passes trough the wire (I tested it in a pressure-pot!) then I crimp the wire with a molex-crimper, only the first clamp of the connector around the plastic, the firther clamps around the soldered wire (this distance is automaticaly so when you use the correct crimptool) (from what I see on the picture the blue plastic is to far in the molex connector) at last, before I slide the 2 connectors in the connector housing, I put grease on the connectors, to prevent corrosion on the soldered wires and the connector this way they last a very long time!! :-) (but it is more work to do it properly) regards paul This method does work well to tin the wire in prep for the crimp.. I should point out though a good coating of flux helps ALOT... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

8th January 2006, 21:51	#30 (permalink)
James Appel New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springfield, Oregon Posts: 60	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Obviously its not a good idea to change all 3 cells at the same time unless its absolutely necessary Why is it not a good idea to change all 3 cells at the same time? I was planning to change all 3 cells when they reached 12 months old, is this not a good idea (even if they are working well).
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