Cell warning !!

**Steve** · 12th December 2005, 00:14

How long does a dive have to be in an Inspo before moisture on the cell faces starts showing up via cell dropouts or warnings? Does it get progressively worse if you stay in the water for a good while after the first warning?

decoweenie · 12th December 2005, 07:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jont)

...generally speaking I replace my cells every 4-6 months...

Really ? Which unit do you dive ?

IMHO, 4-6 months cell change sounds a bit excessive... Been diving Rebreather for a while now, and the only one time I changed cells less than 12+ months was because they were depleted (K1D).

Nick uk. · 12th December 2005, 08:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

How long does a dive have to be in an Inspo before moisture on the cell faces starts showing up via cell dropouts or warnings? Does it get progressively worse if you stay in the water for a good while after the first warning?

Condensation inside the canister builds up quite quickly, i've seen it after just 20mins in 20mt of water. But the faces of the cells are coated with a hydrophobic coating, and so should repell any moisture on the face of the cells!

Pierre Farrugia · 1st January 2006, 08:17

Hello all,

Had cell warning again and like last time, in the last postion of the dive! It did calibrate ok and was ok for 40min but then cell 3 started to disply 0.4 ! All others were 1.3 and 4thcell 1.25 . This gace me peaceof mind but tried to recover by flushing with air to check the real PPo2 and try to remove any water on the face but to no avail. Had to stick with the alarm for the rest of 10min dive and was not happy with everyone looking at me and trying to tell me that the YBOD is going to live to it's name and kill me. When I was on land I swiched controller off and on again and this time cell error, no dive! Removed cell and tried an other one, same problem! SO problem is within the plug, removed plug cover and cleaned and cleaned sensor pins. I also modified plug so pins makes more contact to plug and now is ok altough have to try it underwater! Do you guys use anytype of solution to remove any corrosion from pics ? Has this happened to you......I know that yes and what did you do?

Drmike · 1st January 2006, 08:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.)

the faces of the cells are coated with a hydrophobic coating, and so should repell any moisture on the face of the cells!

Should - but doesnt.

Drmike · 1st January 2006, 08:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.)

Even if it was cell 2, the other two cells should have givern a good reading. If in dout i would change all three cells.

Obviously its not a good idea to change all 3 cells at the same time unless its absolutely necessary

Pierre Farrugia · 8th January 2006, 07:57

Hello again,

The same problem happened again, and before you say....I told you let me explaine! After last dive I concluded that the problem was coming from the cell connection, infact after cleaning the connection, cell 3 was functional again! I will change the cell just for the sake of it. The only thing that is puzzling me is that this happens in 35min in the dive, normal air dive to 35m. Before I left home I calibrated unit and it calib ok, infact before it was saying cell 3 missing, so problem seemed solved. Before dive calib. I noticed cell 3 a little slow compared to other 2. So as I jumped in I did an oxygen flush at 6m and all 3 cells got to 1.6 so everything was ok! The problem happened at 35min in the dive when dive 3 went to 0. Then back on again at 1.15 and the 0 again. At end of dive I switched to OC, first the buzzer was getting mad, if other warnings happened, I will not know as buzzer was sounding all the way and to do some OC again. Switched off Insp and on again, but this time NO DIVE so it's not a clever thing to do while on deco (to remember for future altough you can still use as an oxygen CCR)

Anyone had this problem, can a cell go wrong every dive after 35min dive time?

Drmike · 8th January 2006, 08:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia)

Hello again,

The same problem happened again, and before you say....I told you let me explaine! After last dive I concluded that the problem was coming from the cell connection, infact after cleaning the connection, cell 3 was functional again! I will change the cell just for the sake of it. The only thing that is puzzling me is that this happens in 35min in the dive, normal air dive to 35m. Before I left home I calibrated unit and it calib ok, infact before it was saying cell 3 missing, so problem seemed solved. Before dive calib. I noticed cell 3 a little slow compared to other 2. So as I jumped in I did an oxygen flush at 6m and all 3 cells got to 1.6 so everything was ok! The problem happened at 35min in the dive when dive 3 went to 0. Then back on again at 1.15 and the 0 again. At end of dive I switched to OC, first the buzzer was getting mad, if other warnings happened, I will not know as buzzer was sounding all the way and to do some OC again. Switched off Insp and on again, but this time NO DIVE so it's not a clever thing to do while on deco (to remember for future altough you can still use as an oxygen CCR)

Anyone had this problem, can a cell go wrong every dive after 35min dive time?

If its not condensation then my guess would be the fault is showing once the loop reaches a certain temperature.

Might want to replace the molex and/or check the wiring.

A few years ago I had a bad batch of cells that had non linear temperature characteristics.

Pierre Farrugia · 8th January 2006, 10:17

Hello all,

Just checked Molex connector and Crimp and I think I found the problem. When I tried to clean the wire that can been seen in the crimp, it just flaked away! So it was all corroded. This can be seen in the pic below blue wire and the other is not that well either! So I will have to change them all!

As it can be seen on the pic all my YBOD crimps are crimped on the plastic insulator, is this the norm? Should I use a special tool to crimp these out again? At work we had a very expensive tool to do these of which I cannot borrow ;(

Drmike · 8th January 2006, 10:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia)

As it can be seen on the pic all my YBOD crimps are crimped on the plastic insulator, is this the norm? Should I use a special tool to crimp these out again? At work we had a very expensive tool to do these of which I cannot borrow ;(

Yes thats the norm. You can get cheaper crimpers - but a good pair of pliers can also do a reasonable job if you are careful. I usually expose more wire and fold it back on itself before crimping.

With a sharp knife its sometimes possible to prise open the crimps and reuse the connector if you cant get new ones.

You might want to brush some laquer over it when your done to keep moisture causing future corrosion

12th December 2005, 00:14	#11 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,100	Re: Cell warning !! How long does a dive have to be in an Inspo before moisture on the cell faces starts showing up via cell dropouts or warnings? Does it get progressively worse if you stay in the water for a good while after the first warning? __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
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12th December 2005, 07:54	#12 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by jont) ...generally speaking I replace my cells every 4-6 months... Really ? Which unit do you dive ? IMHO, 4-6 months cell change sounds a bit excessive... Been diving Rebreather for a while now, and the only one time I changed cells less than 12+ months was because they were depleted (K1D). __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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12th December 2005, 08:07	#13 (permalink)
Nick uk. Made in England. Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Viale C.Colombo 75 Marina di Carrara. MS 54036 Italy Posts: 579	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) How long does a dive have to be in an Inspo before moisture on the cell faces starts showing up via cell dropouts or warnings? Does it get progressively worse if you stay in the water for a good while after the first warning? Condensation inside the canister builds up quite quickly, i've seen it after just 20mins in 20mt of water. But the faces of the cells are coated with a hydrophobic coating, and so should repell any moisture on the face of the cells! __________________ If it aint broke....don't fix it, and if it is.............well......get another one! divechief2000@hotmail.com
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1st January 2006, 08:17	#14 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Cell warning !! Hello all, Had cell warning again and like last time, in the last postion of the dive! It did calibrate ok and was ok for 40min but then cell 3 started to disply 0.4 ! All others were 1.3 and 4thcell 1.25 . This gace me peaceof mind but tried to recover by flushing with air to check the real PPo2 and try to remove any water on the face but to no avail. Had to stick with the alarm for the rest of 10min dive and was not happy with everyone looking at me and trying to tell me that the YBOD is going to live to it's name and kill me. When I was on land I swiched controller off and on again and this time cell error, no dive! Removed cell and tried an other one, same problem! SO problem is within the plug, removed plug cover and cleaned and cleaned sensor pins. I also modified plug so pins makes more contact to plug and now is ok altough have to try it underwater! Do you guys use anytype of solution to remove any corrosion from pics ? Has this happened to you......I know that yes and what did you do? __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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1st January 2006, 08:56	#15 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,157	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.) the faces of the cells are coated with a hydrophobic coating, and so should repell any moisture on the face of the cells! Should - but doesnt. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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1st January 2006, 08:58	#16 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,157	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick uk.) Even if it was cell 2, the other two cells should have givern a good reading. If in dout i would change all three cells. Obviously its not a good idea to change all 3 cells at the same time unless its absolutely necessary __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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8th January 2006, 07:57	#17 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Cell warning !! Hello again, The same problem happened again, and before you say....I told you let me explaine! After last dive I concluded that the problem was coming from the cell connection, infact after cleaning the connection, cell 3 was functional again! I will change the cell just for the sake of it. The only thing that is puzzling me is that this happens in 35min in the dive, normal air dive to 35m. Before I left home I calibrated unit and it calib ok, infact before it was saying cell 3 missing, so problem seemed solved. Before dive calib. I noticed cell 3 a little slow compared to other 2. So as I jumped in I did an oxygen flush at 6m and all 3 cells got to 1.6 so everything was ok! The problem happened at 35min in the dive when dive 3 went to 0. Then back on again at 1.15 and the 0 again. At end of dive I switched to OC, first the buzzer was getting mad, if other warnings happened, I will not know as buzzer was sounding all the way and to do some OC again. Switched off Insp and on again, but this time NO DIVE so it's not a clever thing to do while on deco (to remember for future altough you can still use as an oxygen CCR) Anyone had this problem, can a cell go wrong every dive after 35min dive time? __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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8th January 2006, 08:10	#18 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,157	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia) Hello again, The same problem happened again, and before you say....I told you let me explaine! After last dive I concluded that the problem was coming from the cell connection, infact after cleaning the connection, cell 3 was functional again! I will change the cell just for the sake of it. The only thing that is puzzling me is that this happens in 35min in the dive, normal air dive to 35m. Before I left home I calibrated unit and it calib ok, infact before it was saying cell 3 missing, so problem seemed solved. Before dive calib. I noticed cell 3 a little slow compared to other 2. So as I jumped in I did an oxygen flush at 6m and all 3 cells got to 1.6 so everything was ok! The problem happened at 35min in the dive when dive 3 went to 0. Then back on again at 1.15 and the 0 again. At end of dive I switched to OC, first the buzzer was getting mad, if other warnings happened, I will not know as buzzer was sounding all the way and to do some OC again. Switched off Insp and on again, but this time NO DIVE so it's not a clever thing to do while on deco (to remember for future altough you can still use as an oxygen CCR) Anyone had this problem, can a cell go wrong every dive after 35min dive time? If its not condensation then my guess would be the fault is showing once the loop reaches a certain temperature. Might want to replace the molex and/or check the wiring. A few years ago I had a bad batch of cells that had non linear temperature characteristics. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
(Offline)

8th January 2006, 10:17	#19 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Cell warning !! Hello all, Just checked Molex connector and Crimp and I think I found the problem. When I tried to clean the wire that can been seen in the crimp, it just flaked away! So it was all corroded. This can be seen in the pic below blue wire and the other is not that well either! So I will have to change them all! As it can be seen on the pic all my YBOD crimps are crimped on the plastic insulator, is this the norm? Should I use a special tool to crimp these out again? At work we had a very expensive tool to do these of which I cannot borrow ;( __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
(Offline)

8th January 2006, 10:21	#20 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,157	Re: Cell warning !! Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia) As it can be seen on the pic all my YBOD crimps are crimped on the plastic insulator, is this the norm? Should I use a special tool to crimp these out again? At work we had a very expensive tool to do these of which I cannot borrow ;( Yes thats the norm. You can get cheaper crimpers - but a good pair of pliers can also do a reasonable job if you are careful. I usually expose more wire and fold it back on itself before crimping. With a sharp knife its sometimes possible to prise open the crimps and reuse the connector if you cant get new ones. You might want to brush some laquer over it when your done to keep moisture causing future corrosion __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 8th January 2006 at 10:24.
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