Badly disguised purchase justification

joi · 7th January 2009, 18:12

Hæ all,
allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding?

Here are some justification points I thought of and well... points against and staying in oc-land:
+ Ability to talk underwater
+ Warm breathing air :)
+ No bubbles
- Warm up time?
- Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service)

and are there any technical objections the wise would have to such rebreather usage, ie. scrubber warmup time or due to the cold environment that would make it significantly unwise to use a rebreather?

Cheers Jói

Dutchy · 7th January 2009, 19:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by joi)

Hæ all,
allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding?

Here are some justification points I thought of and well... points against and staying in oc-land:
+ Ability to talk underwater
+ Warm breathing air :)
+ No bubbles
- Warm up time?
- Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service)

and are there any technical objections the wise would have to such rebreather usage, ie. scrubber warmup time or due to the cold environment that would make it significantly unwise to use a rebreather?

Cheers Jói

+/- Cost: You can guide on trimix keeping your head clearer where otherwise you'd use air or nitrox and still have lower cost overall for gas. In fact if you dive a lot a use He then it might even outweigh the other costs.
+Silence under water (but that won't help much if you're guiding OC divers_
+Better deco (more conservatism through constant pPO2) if you dive same profile as as OC divers (important for multiple dives a day?)
-Needs more care in rinsing/disinfecting.

jkaterenchuk · 7th January 2009, 19:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by joi)

Hæ all,
allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding?

Here are some justification points I thought of and well... points against and staying in oc-land:
+ Ability to talk underwater
+ Warm breathing air :)
+ No bubbles
- Warm up time?
- Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service)

and are there any technical objections the wise would have to such rebreather usage, ie. scrubber warmup time or due to the cold environment that would make it significantly unwise to use a rebreather?

Cheers Jói

You might want to consider the risk that it takes alot more attention in setup and monitoring and that risk is not necessary or maybe even prudent given that your attention should be with the divers you are guiding.

From my personal perspective using it while guiding OC divers to depths of 20M does not justify the added cost and risks.

Who are you going to talk to underwater anyways...certainly the OC divers will not be able to answer you and might not even hear or understand you. Flash cards and a slate might work better.

Warm loop. Yes it has that benefit but you live in Iceland and a warm loop will just make you a wimp.

John

jaap · 7th January 2009, 20:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by joi)

Hæ all,
allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding?

Guiding? I would say the guiding component makes for a very big part of the question.

What do you plan on putting most of the focus on, your new rebreather or the clients?

Set up time including safety test take longer with a rebreater compared to OC.

In my opinion there is generally a greater risk of missed dives due to some equipment issue with rebreathers.

How safe would it be if the ones you guide figure the guide is experienced and there to look after them while you the guide is a complete rebreather-newbie? Not the safest combo...

IMHO fresh rebreather divers should be very careful to do anything that requires stealing too much attention from just monitoring the rebreather.

onetime · 7th January 2009, 22:06

IMO "want" is a pretty big justification for anything. :)

But, in terms of guiding, I don't think I could justify it. Remember that you might have to rely on some of your guidees to rescue you. Will they know what to do with you on a rebreather?

**NEDIVER** · 7th January 2009, 22:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime)

IMO "want" is a pretty big justification for anything. :)

exactly, life is too short to have to make excuses to do/buy things you want. Like Nike says, Just Do It!

Sutty · 8th January 2009, 00:14

I don't think you can really justify it for such dives and especially for guiding OC divers - but if you get a chance to dive for your own pleasure, get one for that!

joi · 8th January 2009, 02:21

Thanks all for your thoughts and info on the matter.
I will certainly be getting one for the fun-dives on my own.

jtoorish · 8th January 2009, 04:58

Joi,

You could have a CCR diver come along when you are guiding and have him or her go through your motions, as well as his or hers --see where the pitfalls might be.

Jeff

Diving Pete · 8th January 2009, 13:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by joi)

Hæ all,
allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding?

- Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service)
Cheers Jói

So you are in the water diving OC & GUIDING...

I'm assuming you are using a single 12 litre...

Are you paying for airfills / nitrox?
What are the people you are guiding using?
What level of divers are they?
How much experience do you have on a MCCR?
So you have access to sorb / spare parts?
What do you PERCIVE to gain at these times / depths using MCCR?
What is your SAC rate?
Are you looking to carry more weight? - because you will !
Will you carry OC bailout?

Just use the old KISS methodology
keep It Simple Stupid
You are using the easist method already.. I'd stay on it for the purpose you have mentioned.

7th January 2009, 18:12	#1 (permalink)
joi RBW Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Iceland Posts: 7	Badly disguised purchase justification Hæ all, allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding? Here are some justification points I thought of and well... points against and staying in oc-land: + Ability to talk underwater + Warm breathing air :) + No bubbles - Warm up time? - Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service) and are there any technical objections the wise would have to such rebreather usage, ie. scrubber warmup time or due to the cold environment that would make it significantly unwise to use a rebreather? Cheers Jói Last edited by joi; 7th January 2009 at 18:30..
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7th January 2009, 19:23	#2 (permalink)
Dutchy RBW Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,064	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Quote: (Originally Posted by joi) Hæ all, allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding? Here are some justification points I thought of and well... points against and staying in oc-land: + Ability to talk underwater + Warm breathing air :) + No bubbles - Warm up time? - Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service) and are there any technical objections the wise would have to such rebreather usage, ie. scrubber warmup time or due to the cold environment that would make it significantly unwise to use a rebreather? Cheers Jói +/- Cost: You can guide on trimix keeping your head clearer where otherwise you'd use air or nitrox and still have lower cost overall for gas. In fact if you dive a lot a use He then it might even outweigh the other costs. +Silence under water (but that won't help much if you're guiding OC divers_ +Better deco (more conservatism through constant pPO2) if you dive same profile as as OC divers (important for multiple dives a day?) -Needs more care in rinsing/disinfecting.
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7th January 2009, 19:49	#3 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk RebreatherWorld Sponsor HammerMeg Kiss Classic, Inspiration Join Date: May 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,523	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Quote: (Originally Posted by joi) Hæ all, allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding? Here are some justification points I thought of and well... points against and staying in oc-land: + Ability to talk underwater + Warm breathing air :) + No bubbles - Warm up time? - Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service) and are there any technical objections the wise would have to such rebreather usage, ie. scrubber warmup time or due to the cold environment that would make it significantly unwise to use a rebreather? Cheers Jói You might want to consider the risk that it takes alot more attention in setup and monitoring and that risk is not necessary or maybe even prudent given that your attention should be with the divers you are guiding. From my personal perspective using it while guiding OC divers to depths of 20M does not justify the added cost and risks. Who are you going to talk to underwater anyways...certainly the OC divers will not be able to answer you and might not even hear or understand you. Flash cards and a slate might work better. Warm loop. Yes it has that benefit but you live in Iceland and a warm loop will just make you a wimp. John
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7th January 2009, 20:03	#4 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 626	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Quote: (Originally Posted by joi) Hæ all, allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding? Guiding? I would say the guiding component makes for a very big part of the question. What do you plan on putting most of the focus on, your new rebreather or the clients? Set up time including safety test take longer with a rebreater compared to OC. In my opinion there is generally a greater risk of missed dives due to some equipment issue with rebreathers. How safe would it be if the ones you guide figure the guide is experienced and there to look after them while you the guide is a complete rebreather-newbie? Not the safest combo... IMHO fresh rebreather divers should be very careful to do anything that requires stealing too much attention from just monitoring the rebreather.
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7th January 2009, 22:06	#5 (permalink)
onetime Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Not here Posts: 0	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification IMO "want" is a pretty big justification for anything. :) But, in terms of guiding, I don't think I could justify it. Remember that you might have to rely on some of your guidees to rescue you. Will they know what to do with you on a rebreather?
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7th January 2009, 22:46	#6 (permalink)
NEDIVER Sic Semper Tyrannis Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: back in the Northeast! Posts: 770	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Quote: (Originally Posted by onetime) IMO "want" is a pretty big justification for anything. :) exactly, life is too short to have to make excuses to do/buy things you want. Like Nike says, Just Do It! __________________ .Tom. "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" TM "Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting different results" Albert Einstein Avatar Photo courtesy of: Curt Bowen
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8th January 2009, 00:14	#7 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Classic Kiss 165 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 1,077	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification I don't think you can really justify it for such dives and especially for guiding OC divers - but if you get a chance to dive for your own pleasure, get one for that!
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8th January 2009, 02:21	#8 (permalink)
joi RBW Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Iceland Posts: 7	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Thanks all for your thoughts and info on the matter. I will certainly be getting one for the fun-dives on my own.
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8th January 2009, 04:58	#9 (permalink)
jtoorish Closed Account Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 63	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Joi, You could have a CCR diver come along when you are guiding and have him or her go through your motions, as well as his or hers --see where the pitfalls might be. Jeff
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8th January 2009, 13:51	#10 (permalink)
Diving Pete RBW Member Modified Inspro Double Vision Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 134	Re: Badly disguised purchase justification Quote: (Originally Posted by joi) Hæ all, allright say let's say I'm doing 25min, less than 20m dives two-three times every other day in 2C cold water, would an rebreather (mCCR) be able to replace my oc gear for guiding? - Operational Cost (O2, scrubber, service) Cheers Jói So you are in the water diving OC & GUIDING... I'm assuming you are using a single 12 litre... Are you paying for airfills / nitrox? What are the people you are guiding using? What level of divers are they? How much experience do you have on a MCCR? So you have access to sorb / spare parts? What do you PERCIVE to gain at these times / depths using MCCR? What is your SAC rate? Are you looking to carry more weight? - because you will ! Will you carry OC bailout? Just use the old KISS methodology keep It Simple Stupid You are using the easist method already.. I'd stay on it for the purpose you have mentioned.
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