CCR VS. OC as first class

shell-back

While this maybe debated with fiercely, I find the concept not at all out of Line.

This is what I suggest:

Train a new student on a rebreather from the start. No Open water OC diver cert needed.
If the current agencies can not support this , Start a rebrether only agency, that maintains its focus on safe rebreather training and market towards the advancement of rebreathers in the mainstream. Form a rebreather training,equipment concensus council. Allow the current Rebreather manufactures and instructors to make the standards and educate the "industry" on what rebreather are all about.

in short sleave terms , get our **** together and promote.

I know its sounds like a pipe dream, then again 15 years ago Technical diving was taboo as Rebreather's are today.

abowie

While I personally have no major problem with this sort of training I suspect you'd struggle to find enough students to make it viable.

What do the Rebreather instructors on the forum think about conducting OW-RB courses?

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Andrew Bowie

Rebreather-friendly Buddy

Explorer

Why not. There would no bad habits to break. It would be one kick ass course, $$ wise also.

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TRAIN WRECKED.....

Genesis

I think you have to get CCRs down in to the "reasonable" range in terms of kit price first.

I don't see why this is particularly difficult, to be honest. It will be somewhat more expensive, but does it have to be $10k as it is now? I think not.

Seriously guys, what's in a controller? Leave the deco out of it - you can buy a Vr3 or just cut tables if you want. A solenoid ($30 in reasonable quantity), a small microprocessor board ($75 q1, a LOT less in volume) and a LCD display ($30) plus some plastics and wire. What do you got here - under $150 plus the plastics? What's a scrubber really? A piece of 5" HDPE pipe and some fittings, along with another few bits of plastic, right?

So what's the deal here with production costs? Is it one of limited volume and tooling by hand instead of REAL production tactics? Well, until someone solves that, you're going to have this problem.

Solve the $10k equipment problme and I think what you're proposing is viable. Get it down to $2k for the basic hardware, not including aircell, regs and bottles, and it will take off.

I think it can be done, but you have to crack this idea that a DSV is worth $600, when you should be able to have them cranked out for under $100.

Right now you've got a basic problem in that people who want to take up diving aren't going to pop for the $10k up front in hardware.

Explorer

True but there are some out there that have the $$ and want to do it. Just have to find them.

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TRAIN WRECKED.....

wedivebc

I remember reading where a PADI facility (in Asia I think) was training OW divers on the Dolphin. Although this may not be exactly what you are looking for I think it's on the right track and if it could be done within PADI standards an agency that has real CCR instructors should be able to sign off on it.

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Cheers,

Dave....

Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die

Explorer

That's right, thinking outside the box.

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TRAIN WRECKED.....

resolute

This is a good idea - shift the paradigm some...

Just start the niche like everyone else in diving has with something or another...

I suspect that with increasing numbers of participants, unit production costs woud begin to plunge as the "big boy" industry manufacturers shift their attention to RBs once everyone understands that its the way things are going for good... I sense the dam is finally beginning to crack and break on Rebreather use finally..

JB

Genesis

Yeah, its actually quite a cart-and-horse problem, but I suspect it will be solved.

The thing is, nobody in the mass-market is going to accept "6 months", "3 months" - or even "3 weeks" as a delivery quote for equipment. The mass market wants it now, and until you can sell the product off-the-shelf at a competitive price, it will remain a niche market.

I had high hopes when DR announced the Optima that this might be starting, because their original price-point that they said they were going to hit was $5k complete, out-the-door, and their claims were that they were going to have them available at most stocking DR dealers for "right now" purchase.

Of course that turned out not to be accurate - neither claim turns out to be even close to reality.

One of the problems John is that there are no "big players" in the scuba game. Even people you think of as "big" such as PST are bit players in the real world when you're talking about scuba gear .vs. any other industry. Scubapro is just a small part of Johnson Outdoors, for example - a company that makes things like trolling motors!

Unfortunately nobody has seen fit to really "go after" this market with a Rebreather that makes sense economically. Oh sure, if you dive Trimix regularly it'll pay for itself over time, but how few people do, in the grand scheme of things? And then you have things happen like what happened to you - send the unit back, sit on your hands for what - something approaching a year while it is refit and worked on?

That sort of thing is just plain unreasonable, and starting people at the OW level on RBs is too until those problems with the hardware chain are resolved.

But once they are, I think there's a market here to go that direction. Certainly, it wouldn't be hard to convince someone of the difference between "bubble" and "bubbleless" diving.

But once someone says "bubbleless!" you have to be able to say "ok, here's your kit, now let's do the class."

Today there no unit out there on which you can do that.

JPJones

IANTD will let you do it now.

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NSS/CDS Training Chairman
www.jpjscuba.com