Should I carry bailout??

andrespp · 25th April 2008, 19:21

Hello all,

I am just starting diving CCR, in my case is the Classic Kiss. The tanks are 3 liters each, the air one filled up to 230 bars.

The question is as follows: bearing in mind that for a time I shall be using the unit on multilevel dives, not deeper than 30 meters, with no deco, do you think that carrying bailout is necessary?

My thinking (I maybe wrong, that´s why I am posting this question), is that having the unit the BOV, the bailout is not necessary on this kind of diving, specially if care is taken and avoid being deeper than 18 meters when the air SPG is below 100 bares.

By other side, Jetsam recommends always having bailout.

I'll appreciate your feedback on this matter, as well as you please let me know if you carry separate bailout on this kind of recretional diving.

TIA,
Andres

w ripley · 25th April 2008, 19:24

"Don't leave home without it!"

Bill

Stephane · 25th April 2008, 19:34

Quote:

do you think that carrying bailout is necessary?

Yes, it is. End of story.

***caveseeker7*** · 25th April 2008, 19:36

Yes. Size should depend on your RMV, taking stress into consideration.
At 30-40 meters I'd be comfortable with 40cf (5L @ 230 bar).

**yves** · 25th April 2008, 19:37

Take your SAC by 3 for real stress situation an calculate.... even the most experienced cave or deep divers in stress will tell you that using 50l a minute is sweet nothing..
cheers
yves

zmcave · 25th April 2008, 19:40

I always carry bailout, no matter how shallow or how short might be my dive.
Having an extra tank doesn't bother me at all, and having the piece of mind that if something comes up... I have a completely independent system to get me out.
Best,

Zé.

PaulTG2 · 25th April 2008, 19:50

Hello, Better to be lugging stuff on and off the boat wishing you hadn't brought the bailout than being under water wishing you had. -p

**NEDIVER** · 25th April 2008, 19:59

40cu ft for me

**nigelh** · 25th April 2008, 20:08

No stop diving I happily dive on only the two 3L tanks on the inspo.
I do have seperate suit inflate and have added a reg on the O2 .

That will get me out of 30 meters, although I'd probably stop at 6 and put up a blob as I'm paranoid about idiots with outboards having had one try to shave my ears off a few years back.

camerone · 25th April 2008, 20:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by andrespp)

The question is as follows: bearing in mind that for a time I shall be using the unit on multilevel dives, not deeper than 30 meters, with no deco, do you think that carrying bailout is necessary?

My thinking (I maybe wrong, that´s why I am posting this question), is that having the unit the BOV, the bailout is not necessary on this kind of diving, specially if care is taken and avoid being deeper than 18 meters when the air SPG is below 100 bares.

Good practice is to _never_ count on a BOV for anything other than a couple of sanity breaths, unless you're plumbing it into significnat offboard gas... and even then, you have scenarios that it's not so good for (caustic cocktail being one).

Do the math on a question like this, even as back-of-the-envelope.

Take your 3L cylinder, and subtract some reasonable amount for diluent usage on a typical CCR-friendly dive. Subtract some slight amount more for wing inflation, and then suit inflation, too; my guess is you'll be down to what is now (effectively) a 2 L cylinder as "bailout," assuming you're starting your dive completely full -- as would be the first dive of the day case, and not later ones.

A 2 L will barely get you to the surface from 30m, certainly no saftey stop, and that's with a reasonable SAC. Add stress from a bailout, and you'll quickly see that going it without on a dive plan like that is not a wise choice.

25th April 2008, 19:21	#1 (permalink)
andrespp New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2007 Location: Cádiz (Spain) Posts: 50	Should I carry bailout?? Hello all, I am just starting diving CCR, in my case is the Classic Kiss. The tanks are 3 liters each, the air one filled up to 230 bars. The question is as follows: bearing in mind that for a time I shall be using the unit on multilevel dives, not deeper than 30 meters, with no deco, do you think that carrying bailout is necessary? My thinking (I maybe wrong, that´s why I am posting this question), is that having the unit the BOV, the bailout is not necessary on this kind of diving, specially if care is taken and avoid being deeper than 18 meters when the air SPG is below 100 bares. By other side, Jetsam recommends always having bailout. I'll appreciate your feedback on this matter, as well as you please let me know if you carry separate bailout on this kind of recretional diving. TIA, Andres
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25th April 2008, 19:24	#2 (permalink)
w ripley Sorta New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk VA USA Posts: 126	Re: Should I carry bailout?? "Don't leave home without it!" Bill
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25th April 2008, 19:34	#3 (permalink)
Stephane Hey! Ho! Let's go! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 725	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: do you think that carrying bailout is necessary? Yes, it is. End of story. __________________ Stéphane Hammer-rEvo powered!
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25th April 2008, 19:36	#4 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Yes. Size should depend on your RMV, taking stress into consideration. At 30-40 meters I'd be comfortable with 40cf (5L @ 230 bar). __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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25th April 2008, 19:37	#5 (permalink)
yves Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 52	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Take your SAC by 3 for real stress situation an calculate.... even the most experienced cave or deep divers in stress will tell you that using 50l a minute is sweet nothing.. cheers yves
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25th April 2008, 19:40	#6 (permalink)
zmcave www.rebreather.com.br Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 176	Re: Should I carry bailout?? I always carry bailout, no matter how shallow or how short might be my dive. Having an extra tank doesn't bother me at all, and having the piece of mind that if something comes up... I have a completely independent system to get me out. Best, Zé.
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25th April 2008, 19:50	#7 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 361	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Hello, Better to be lugging stuff on and off the boat wishing you hadn't brought the bailout than being under water wishing you had. -p
(Online)

25th April 2008, 19:59	#8 (permalink)
NEDIVER Sic Semper Tyrannis Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 120	Re: Should I carry bailout?? 40cu ft for me __________________ -Tom- "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" TM "Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting different results" Albert Einstein
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25th April 2008, 20:08	#9 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 792	Re: Should I carry bailout?? No stop diving I happily dive on only the two 3L tanks on the inspo. I do have seperate suit inflate and have added a reg on the O2 . That will get me out of 30 meters, although I'd probably stop at 6 and put up a blob as I'm paranoid about idiots with outboards having had one try to shave my ears off a few years back. __________________ nigelh
(Online)

25th April 2008, 20:41	#10 (permalink)
camerone New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 62	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by andrespp) The question is as follows: bearing in mind that for a time I shall be using the unit on multilevel dives, not deeper than 30 meters, with no deco, do you think that carrying bailout is necessary? My thinking (I maybe wrong, that´s why I am posting this question), is that having the unit the BOV, the bailout is not necessary on this kind of diving, specially if care is taken and avoid being deeper than 18 meters when the air SPG is below 100 bares. Good practice is to _never_ count on a BOV for anything other than a couple of sanity breaths, unless you're plumbing it into significnat offboard gas... and even then, you have scenarios that it's not so good for (caustic cocktail being one). Do the math on a question like this, even as back-of-the-envelope. Take your 3L cylinder, and subtract some reasonable amount for diluent usage on a typical CCR-friendly dive. Subtract some slight amount more for wing inflation, and then suit inflation, too; my guess is you'll be down to what is now (effectively) a 2 L cylinder as "bailout," assuming you're starting your dive completely full -- as would be the first dive of the day case, and not later ones. A 2 L will barely get you to the surface from 30m, certainly no saftey stop, and that's with a reasonable SAC. Add stress from a bailout, and you'll quickly see that going it without on a dive plan like that is not a wise choice.
(Offline)

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