Should I carry bailout??

**PhilSiswick** · 28th April 2008, 15:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by diveladydive)

Tom's Pel is coming with a BOV, by the way- & his new HEAT (I thnk it's his new HEAT) has a BOV. There are pros & cons to everything, from cutoff switches on O2 to BOVs to solenoids, & everything in-between. Personal preference (& the number of RBs/toys you can afford) comes into play.

Who knows- I may end up paying the extra for the BOV upgrade on my Pel!

I'd advise a search on here for incidents where a BOV helped. To be honest, a cocktail scares me, but I feel that it is less likely than one of the incidents where a BOV can help (or even save my life). I also have a reg on my bailout, so I would go loop - BOV - bailout in any case (although I am plumbing my BOV into my bailout stage shortly).

It's not a magic bullet, just another tool in the box to allow you to get out of trouble without making a drama into a crisis. I read long and hard about likely incidents before shelling out for a BOV. Based on what I read, I think that anyone who doesn't is a tad foolish. Just my opinion, of course.

Cheers,

**yves** · 28th April 2008, 16:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by snicks)

. If they where only available... quite now they are impossible to find (in germany).

Greets
Dirk

Hi Dirk, I used to have a tec shop in Belgium,still rent the place out and they have always 7l 300b on stock, as it was one of my topsellerss, if you ever need them: I live in Koln now and once a month I go to Belgium

greets
yves

OceanOpportunity · 28th April 2008, 18:11

Can someone enlighten me as to the references to 'Tom Pel HEAT'? Is this a new rig that is coming out?

thanks for any info

Marvintpa · 28th April 2008, 18:42

Just curious, what is it about a BOV that makes a caustic so likely to come through? Is it only on particular styles of BOV's?

I was under the impression that switching most BOV regs off the loop essentially closed the loop (unless the caustic was happening before switching).

jkaterenchuk · 28th April 2008, 19:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity)

Can someone enlighten me as to the references to 'Tom Pel HEAT'? Is this a new rig that is coming out?

thanks for any info

Here is my guess.

Tom = Tom Mount
Pel = Peligian MCCCR
HEAT = I have no idea but maybe she means HH CCR.

John

**PhilSiswick** · 28th April 2008, 20:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marvintpa)

Just curious, what is it about a BOV that makes a caustic so likely to come through? Is it only on particular styles of BOV's?

I was under the impression that switching most BOV regs off the loop essentially closed the loop (unless the caustic was happening before switching).

You're right. The issue, as I understand it, is that the cocktail will already be on the bits you have in your mouth (mouthpiece primarily) before you isolate the loop and go to OC on the BOV. Therefore, the BOV is rendered useless, as you can't keep it in your mouth. If you catch a flood before the cocktail gets to the mouthpiece, you can put the BOV on OC and continue on your merry way (to the surface, clearly :-)

I stand to be corrected, of course.

Cheers,

matt crane · 28th April 2008, 23:05

I learnt to dive an inspiration at the end of last year and the first question I ask myself when planning any dive isn't "Should I carry bailout" The question I ask is "How much bailout do I need".

As I am new to Rebreather diving I am only diving shallow while I build up my experience but generally I carry a 5ltr stage cylinder as bailout, I have an auto air inflator which feeds of the Dil cylinder ,(fitted as standard on an Inspiration), plus I have a 2nd stage attached to my O2 cylinder for use above 10m if I have to deco on OC.

Quote: (Originally Posted by andrespp)

Hello all,

I am just starting diving CCR, in my case is the Classic Kiss. The tanks are 3 liters each, the air one filled up to 230 bars.

The question is as follows: bearing in mind that for a time I shall be using the unit on multilevel dives, not deeper than 30 meters, with no deco, do you think that carrying bailout is necessary?

My thinking (I maybe wrong, that´s why I am posting this question), is that having the unit the BOV, the bailout is not necessary on this kind of diving, specially if care is taken and avoid being deeper than 18 meters when the air SPG is below 100 bares.

By other side, Jetsam recommends always having bailout.

I'll appreciate your feedback on this matter, as well as you please let me know if you carry separate bailout on this kind of recretional diving.

TIA,
Andres

Kit · 29th April 2008, 13:57

I have to toss this in as well:

I will always carry the largest bailout I can strap on. I was in Indonesia on my Dolphin, when I suffered an obvious O2 sensor failure/malfunction (it indicated I was breathing 8% O2 - ack!) at 85 ft. I was frightened (read: "breathing a bit heavily"), but thanks to good training and a 19 cu ft. bailout, I was able to get to the surface safely, with a little gas to spare.

My buddy (my wife) was right pissed because I had to bail, and cause her to abort her dive too, but I didn't mind because I was alive.

diveladydive · 11th May 2008, 01:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

Here is my guess.

Tom = Tom Mount
Pel = Peligian MCCCR
HEAT = I have no idea but maybe she means HH CCR.

John

Tom is Tom Mount
Pel is Pelagian, a DCCR (Diver Controlled CCR, not Mechanical CCR- a subtle but important difference) made by Rebreatherlab (check it out- she's a sweet rig!)
HEAT is a new Rebreather, not a HH- or HammerHead. It's a Mechanical CCR, great trim, valves toward the head (similar to doubles- the Pel is built this way too)

The name is an acronym & the unit isn't fully on the market yet...

sorry about that!

..& the caustic Tom got on a BOV was the second caustic- first one on the loop, switched to BOV, and as noted in a previous post, promptly inhaled a mouthful of milk.

The hit had nothing to do with the BOV- it was an innocent bystander, so to speak :-)

Lesson to be learned: if your mouth is full of lye, you're on bailout.

Best,

Peri

osiris · 11th May 2008, 09:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marvintpa)

Just curious, what is it about a BOV that makes a caustic so likely to come through? Is it only on particular styles of BOV's?

I was under the impression that switching most BOV regs off the loop essentially closed the loop (unless the caustic was happening before switching).

That has been my experience and even if stuff ends up in your mouth, you can rinse it and continue on the OC side of the BOV. "corse, you'll end up spitting a lot whne you get back up. At least you'll be able to - must be a lot of fun choking and spewing while you switch to traditoonal OC b/O - but I don't think I want to try.

28th April 2008, 15:18	#51 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 988	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by diveladydive) Tom's Pel is coming with a BOV, by the way- & his new HEAT (I thnk it's his new HEAT) has a BOV. There are pros & cons to everything, from cutoff switches on O2 to BOVs to solenoids, & everything in-between. Personal preference (& the number of RBs/toys you can afford) comes into play. Who knows- I may end up paying the extra for the BOV upgrade on my Pel! I'd advise a search on here for incidents where a BOV helped. To be honest, a cocktail scares me, but I feel that it is less likely than one of the incidents where a BOV can help (or even save my life). I also have a reg on my bailout, so I would go loop - BOV - bailout in any case (although I am plumbing my BOV into my bailout stage shortly). It's not a magic bullet, just another tool in the box to allow you to get out of trouble without making a drama into a crisis. I read long and hard about likely incidents before shelling out for a BOV. Based on what I read, I think that anyone who doesn't is a tad foolish. Just my opinion, of course. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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28th April 2008, 16:31	#52 (permalink)
yves Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 53	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by snicks) . If they where only available... quite now they are impossible to find (in germany). Greets Dirk Hi Dirk, I used to have a tec shop in Belgium,still rent the place out and they have always 7l 300b on stock, as it was one of my topsellerss, if you ever need them: I live in Koln now and once a month I go to Belgium greets yves
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28th April 2008, 18:11	#53 (permalink)
OceanOpportunity for a world of water Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Providence, RI USA Posts: 541	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Can someone enlighten me as to the references to 'Tom Pel HEAT'? Is this a new rig that is coming out? thanks for any info __________________ Michael Lombardi Oceans of Opportunity www.oceanopportunity.com Elected Director, Society for Human Performance in Extreme Environments MN'07, The Explorers Club Project Manager, Diving a Dream
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28th April 2008, 18:42	#54 (permalink)
Marvintpa Bad knees, matching brain Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 264	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Just curious, what is it about a BOV that makes a caustic so likely to come through? Is it only on particular styles of BOV's? I was under the impression that switching most BOV regs off the loop essentially closed the loop (unless the caustic was happening before switching).
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28th April 2008, 19:04	#55 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 807	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity) Can someone enlighten me as to the references to 'Tom Pel HEAT'? Is this a new rig that is coming out? thanks for any info Here is my guess. Tom = Tom Mount Pel = Peligian MCCCR HEAT = I have no idea but maybe she means HH CCR. John
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28th April 2008, 20:11	#56 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 988	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Marvintpa) Just curious, what is it about a BOV that makes a caustic so likely to come through? Is it only on particular styles of BOV's? I was under the impression that switching most BOV regs off the loop essentially closed the loop (unless the caustic was happening before switching). You're right. The issue, as I understand it, is that the cocktail will already be on the bits you have in your mouth (mouthpiece primarily) before you isolate the loop and go to OC on the BOV. Therefore, the BOV is rendered useless, as you can't keep it in your mouth. If you catch a flood before the cocktail gets to the mouthpiece, you can put the BOV on OC and continue on your merry way (to the surface, clearly :-) I stand to be corrected, of course. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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28th April 2008, 23:05	#57 (permalink)
matt crane New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cornwall Posts: 98	Re: Should I carry bailout?? I learnt to dive an inspiration at the end of last year and the first question I ask myself when planning any dive isn't "Should I carry bailout" The question I ask is "How much bailout do I need". As I am new to Rebreather diving I am only diving shallow while I build up my experience but generally I carry a 5ltr stage cylinder as bailout, I have an auto air inflator which feeds of the Dil cylinder ,(fitted as standard on an Inspiration), plus I have a 2nd stage attached to my O2 cylinder for use above 10m if I have to deco on OC. Quote: (Originally Posted by andrespp) Hello all, I am just starting diving CCR, in my case is the Classic Kiss. The tanks are 3 liters each, the air one filled up to 230 bars. The question is as follows: bearing in mind that for a time I shall be using the unit on multilevel dives, not deeper than 30 meters, with no deco, do you think that carrying bailout is necessary? My thinking (I maybe wrong, that´s why I am posting this question), is that having the unit the BOV, the bailout is not necessary on this kind of diving, specially if care is taken and avoid being deeper than 18 meters when the air SPG is below 100 bares. By other side, Jetsam recommends always having bailout. I'll appreciate your feedback on this matter, as well as you please let me know if you carry separate bailout on this kind of recretional diving. TIA, Andres
(Online)

29th April 2008, 13:57	#58 (permalink)
Kit New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 30	Re: Should I carry bailout?? I have to toss this in as well: I will always carry the largest bailout I can strap on. I was in Indonesia on my Dolphin, when I suffered an obvious O2 sensor failure/malfunction (it indicated I was breathing 8% O2 - ack!) at 85 ft. I was frightened (read: "breathing a bit heavily"), but thanks to good training and a 19 cu ft. bailout, I was able to get to the surface safely, with a little gas to spare. My buddy (my wife) was right pissed because I had to bail, and cause her to abort her dive too, but I didn't mind because I was alive.
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11th May 2008, 01:18	#59 (permalink)
diveladydive New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Optima Titan Pelagian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Southeastern Florida Posts: 50	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) Here is my guess. Tom = Tom Mount Pel = Peligian MCCCR HEAT = I have no idea but maybe she means HH CCR. John Tom is Tom Mount Pel is Pelagian, a DCCR (Diver Controlled CCR, not Mechanical CCR- a subtle but important difference) made by Rebreatherlab (check it out- she's a sweet rig!) HEAT is a new Rebreather, not a HH- or HammerHead. It's a Mechanical CCR, great trim, valves toward the head (similar to doubles- the Pel is built this way too) The name is an acronym & the unit isn't fully on the market yet... sorry about that! ..& the caustic Tom got on a BOV was the second caustic- first one on the loop, switched to BOV, and as noted in a previous post, promptly inhaled a mouthful of milk. The hit had nothing to do with the BOV- it was an innocent bystander, so to speak :-) Lesson to be learned: if your mouth is full of lye, you're on bailout. Best, Peri __________________ *Complacency: Self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by ignorance of actual dangers or deficiencies.* *Success: A journey in which the improbable becomes possible, leading to surprising levels of achievement.* *Dr. Peri M. Blum* *Instructor, IANTD* *Member, Board of Advisors, IANTD* *www.supremedivers.com* *561-901-9715* The opinions expressed herein are those of the author and the author’s alone.
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11th May 2008, 09:28	#60 (permalink)
osiris Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland Posts: 317	Re: Should I carry bailout?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Marvintpa) Just curious, what is it about a BOV that makes a caustic so likely to come through? Is it only on particular styles of BOV's? I was under the impression that switching most BOV regs off the loop essentially closed the loop (unless the caustic was happening before switching). That has been my experience and even if stuff ends up in your mouth, you can rinse it and continue on the OC side of the BOV. "corse, you'll end up spitting a lot whne you get back up. At least you'll be able to - must be a lot of fun choking and spewing while you switch to traditoonal OC b/O - but I don't think I want to try.
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