Air versus Argon

Gilles

What a problematic transplantation I am having (i.e. moving from Malaysia to The Netherlands). All my diving gear sitting as unclaimed air cargo in Schipol (due to crap organization from my employer-services).

Anyways.....the first diver I met here (an advanced GUE OC tech-diver) swears by the use of Argon in his drysuit. Until now, I had the impression there wasn't a notice-able difference (for CCR'rs).

I have yet to even don a drysuit.

What are your thoughts and comments on this?

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Gilles
http://www.dirrebreather.com

se2schul

See this study:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/divers3/Argon.pdf

Personally, I will only use argon if I'm doing an unusually long dive in cold water, or a very deep dive in cold water. Air is a very good insulator, and for most dives, I can't even tell the difference between the two.

Besides, if it's really cold, I use electric heat, which actually gives you heat. With argon, you simply lose heat at a slightly slower rate than air.

Mark Chase

Tried it and didnt realy notice enough of a diferance for it to be worth the hassel of getting the fills.

I was told it was because i didnt flush the suit three times with the argon to get rid of the air. Maby ill try that next time but IMHO droping into 60m of water prety much sorts out what little air is in the suit

I run minimum gas in the suit so maby thats another issue but I am not changing that for any one

ATB

Mark

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Is it supposed to make that noise ?

I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit.

Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt

"Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System

jaap

One should note that the divers in the study used 6.5 mm neoprene drysuits and that the diving depth was only 7.5-10 m.

If the goal is to compare the effects of air vs argon for drysuit diving the outcome would perhaps have been different if membrane typ drysuits had been used. Don't know exactly how thick and what sort of undergarment they used in the study but my limited experience of thick neoprene suits is that a great deal of the insulation comes from the thick neoprene, particularily when shallow.

I like to use argon, particularily during the winter. It feels like I'm warmer, if thats for real or not I don't know.

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My initials: JAAP

jiseson

i have found a substantial difference and use argon

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Jonathan D Iseson

nigelh

I use it in the winter. You don't feel significantly warmer but you get out of the same dive less uncomfortable and a lot less exhausted.

Flushing is a waste of time just argon-in argon-out. It never penetrates. The trick is to get the suit to squeeze up on the surface, not at depth, so you get as much air out of the undersuit as possible. Then the percentage mix is much better. Also I don't notice much difference shallow dives, again probably because the percentage is low, but having been deep the fraction stays high as you ascend and it pays on the stops.

I run a separate suit inflation system so it is redundant buoyancy with the wing on the DIL so in summer I just put air in the bottle.

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nigelh

Explorer

I agree with se2schul on this one. Just go with the electric vest. Done.

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TRAIN WRECKED.....

gottrimix

I use Argon in winter and on long dives. Always found it to be warmer than air.

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Steve

www.lakemeadtechnicaldivers.com

Shawn

I also use argon for my dry suit, and as you can see from the picture I use a DUI TLS 350. I dive in water that is always 45 - 50f; so here is how I manage suit inflation and warmth.

I use Argon on every dive, it's cheap, and lasts a long time.

Before I start a dive I lay on the bottom and streatch out. This helps to free up my movements and helps to eliminate air trapping.

During the decent I wait until I feel the suit squeeze before I add argon insuring that the only thing in my suit is argon. If I do not take this step and only add argon to the air filled spaces of my suit then I don't feel anything! So in short get the air out and add argon as necessary.

As far as one of the previous statements about using a suit heater...I also use one, but only during deco. If the suit heater fails during a dive you can find yourself getting hypothermic in a matter of minutes. Using argon helps to delay the convection cooling.

It really is all about using the materials and equipment that work.

PS: the size of the argon bottle depends on the DEPTH of the dive Ie; how much argon will I go through DT compression and venting. I also use a Salvo argon reg, they are inexpensive and work really well.

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diverreb

I've used both Argon & Air over the years. I personally believe that Argon's benefits are strictly psychological. I don't notice any difference.

It's kind of like the blind wine tasting studies done lately. They took a very mediocre wine (Two Buck Chuck) and told the subjects it was $90.00 bottle of wine. 80% of the test subjects, who were "knowledgeable" wine drinkers, perceived it to be an excellent wine. The Bottled water test, where all the water in the test came from a hose in New York City, provided rave reviews from the tasters who were told it was an exotic new water. Then there is the Vodka Blind test where regular Vodka drinkers chose Smirnoff as a top line Vodka and thought Grey Goose was a low end Vodka.

Do a simple blind dive test among divers with Air & Argon, and I suspect you'll find similar results.

Richie