Stress -- Handling Survival

**UWSojourner** · 27th March 2008, 03:05

Since we're on a roll with regard to mortality issues ...

I just watched a combat GI describe issues related to survival. What caught my attention was that he said, "I guess I was just one of those who could handle the stress." Some, evidently, went into panic and were unable to function. Some were able to focus on the job, even though their life was threatened.

Question for instructors or divers experienced enough to comment: Is there any way to tell the difference? If a CO2 hit, or caustic cocktail, or ANY extraordinary event occurs during a dive, is there ANY predictable characteristic of a diver that can help weed out those that will respond correctly (or at all) vs. those those that will freeze or panic?

I'm not saying all who perished froze! I'm just wondering whether certain training might identify those less able to respond to stress, and whether the current training is helpful at such identification.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 27th March 2008, 04:01

There are approximately 15 percent of the population that, no matter how well prepared or tested (and passed with flying colors), will freeze in such circumstances. There is currently no foolproof method to test for this. It is unfortunate that the time where this becomes known is when it happens for real.

Mdemon · 27th March 2008, 08:43

I'm sure there are people who are more inclined to panic. And there are always those surprising people who appear to be headless chickens in normal life then are excellent when the poo hits the fan.

What worries me is that it isn't a constant. If you are feeling confident in what you are doing then you are better able to perform. Same person having an off-day might take longer to switch on, or may go to pieces.

This would explain why instructors appear on incident lists as well as newbies I guess.

Your GI example is a good one. Drills are designed to enable them to react instinctively - they know what to do. This, of course, is the aim of our own training. I have always enjoyed more the dives where something has gone wrong and I've fixed it using drills or otherwise - so satisfying to have dealt with something successfully. Increases confidence which I personally think is 90% of diving and dealing with underwater drama.

Quote: (Originally Posted by UWSojourner)

Since we're on a roll with regard to mortality issues ...

I just watched a combat GI describe issues related to survival. What caught my attention was that he said, "I guess I was just one of those who could handle the stress." Some, evidently, went into panic and were unable to function. Some were able to focus on the job, even though their life was threatened.

Question for instructors or divers experienced enough to comment: Is there any way to tell the difference? If a CO2 hit, or caustic cocktail, or ANY extraordinary event occurs during a dive, is there ANY predictable characteristic of a diver that can help weed out those that will respond correctly (or at all) vs. those those that will freeze or panic?

I'm not saying all who perished froze! I'm just wondering whether certain training might identify those less able to respond to stress, and whether the current training is helpful at such identification.

***Decodiver*** · 27th March 2008, 10:27

In a nutshell no. In my experience.

Personally, I believe dealing with stress is better achieved if you realise and identify where you want to be at the end of the incident, if you identify that at the onset of the problem and you focus on achieving that, then you can operate effectively, ie have a goal and single-mindedly do all in your power to achieve it.

Whether that may be under-fire and moving through an enemy ambush, or dealing with a complex failure on CCR.

Building block training where people are taught to competently solve problems that become more and more complex can help with this, especially if they are able to demonstrate an ability to prioritize.

One thing is for sure, you have to love this life enough to fight with every ounce of your mental and physical ability to keep it. If you become overwhelmed by the magnitude of the problem, then you will die.

Don't ever give up.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

brockbr · 28th March 2008, 14:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

There are approximately 15 percent of the population that, no matter how well prepared or tested (and passed with flying colors), will freeze in such circumstances. There is currently no foolproof method to test for this. It is unfortunate that the time where this becomes known is when it happens for real.

Not that I question the number of 15% (actually, I would have thought it was higher), but did this come from a study or other controlled environment, or empirical data?

Just curious - Those would be some interesting studies to read.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 28th March 2008, 17:15

This was the figure in a survival book.

**Dsix36** · 28th March 2008, 19:29

I just know from my personal experience with situations in the past, that when it starts getting real bad for me, I kinda go into survival mode

That means F**K everything - I am taking care of me. I become unaware of anything that doesn't effect my survival until crap is under control again.

This might be bad since my buddy is also ignored and I am in solo mode.

lizardland · 28th March 2008, 19:46

Can't recall the reference but I remember reading about a study where they'd tested people who had survived major panic situations, burning planes, sinking ships and the like and they found that high percentage of them had naturally elevated seratonin levels.

They'll be urine testing us on boats next!

Cheers,

Stuart

27th March 2008, 03:05	#1 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Stress -- Handling Survival Since we're on a roll with regard to mortality issues ... I just watched a combat GI describe issues related to survival. What caught my attention was that he said, "I guess I was just one of those who could handle the stress." Some, evidently, went into panic and were unable to function. Some were able to focus on the job, even though their life was threatened. Question for instructors or divers experienced enough to comment: Is there any way to tell the difference? If a CO2 hit, or caustic cocktail, or ANY extraordinary event occurs during a dive, is there ANY predictable characteristic of a diver that can help weed out those that will respond correctly (or at all) vs. those those that will freeze or panic? I'm not saying all who perished froze! I'm just wondering whether certain training might identify those less able to respond to stress, and whether the current training is helpful at such identification.
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27th March 2008, 04:01	#2 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,939	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival There are approximately 15 percent of the population that, no matter how well prepared or tested (and passed with flying colors), will freeze in such circumstances. There is currently no foolproof method to test for this. It is unfortunate that the time where this becomes known is when it happens for real. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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27th March 2008, 08:43	#3 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,890	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival I'm sure there are people who are more inclined to panic. And there are always those surprising people who appear to be headless chickens in normal life then are excellent when the poo hits the fan. What worries me is that it isn't a constant. If you are feeling confident in what you are doing then you are better able to perform. Same person having an off-day might take longer to switch on, or may go to pieces. This would explain why instructors appear on incident lists as well as newbies I guess. Your GI example is a good one. Drills are designed to enable them to react instinctively - they know what to do. This, of course, is the aim of our own training. I have always enjoyed more the dives where something has gone wrong and I've fixed it using drills or otherwise - so satisfying to have dealt with something successfully. Increases confidence which I personally think is 90% of diving and dealing with underwater drama. Quote: (Originally Posted by UWSojourner) Since we're on a roll with regard to mortality issues ... I just watched a combat GI describe issues related to survival. What caught my attention was that he said, "I guess I was just one of those who could handle the stress." Some, evidently, went into panic and were unable to function. Some were able to focus on the job, even though their life was threatened. Question for instructors or divers experienced enough to comment: Is there any way to tell the difference? If a CO2 hit, or caustic cocktail, or ANY extraordinary event occurs during a dive, is there ANY predictable characteristic of a diver that can help weed out those that will respond correctly (or at all) vs. those those that will freeze or panic? I'm not saying all who perished froze! I'm just wondering whether certain training might identify those less able to respond to stress, and whether the current training is helpful at such identification. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com It's as easy as abc; a) "Carry adequate bailout" b) "If in doubt, bail out" c) "Always know your PO2" If you find that hard, stick to crochet. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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27th March 2008, 10:27	#4 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival In a nutshell no. In my experience. Personally, I believe dealing with stress is better achieved if you realise and identify where you want to be at the end of the incident, if you identify that at the onset of the problem and you focus on achieving that, then you can operate effectively, ie have a goal and single-mindedly do all in your power to achieve it. Whether that may be under-fire and moving through an enemy ambush, or dealing with a complex failure on CCR. Building block training where people are taught to competently solve problems that become more and more complex can help with this, especially if they are able to demonstrate an ability to prioritize. One thing is for sure, you have to love this life enough to fight with every ounce of your mental and physical ability to keep it. If you become overwhelmed by the magnitude of the problem, then you will die. Don't ever give up. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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28th March 2008, 14:39	#5 (permalink)
brockbr Train Wrecked ;) Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabaster, AL Posts: 198	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) There are approximately 15 percent of the population that, no matter how well prepared or tested (and passed with flying colors), will freeze in such circumstances. There is currently no foolproof method to test for this. It is unfortunate that the time where this becomes known is when it happens for real. Not that I question the number of 15% (actually, I would have thought it was higher), but did this come from a study or other controlled environment, or empirical data? Just curious - Those would be some interesting studies to read. Last edited by brockbr : 28th March 2008 at 14:39. Reason: typo
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28th March 2008, 17:15	#6 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,939	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival This was the figure in a survival book. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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28th March 2008, 19:29	#7 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 891	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival I just know from my personal experience with situations in the past, that when it starts getting real bad for me, I kinda go into survival mode That means F*K everything - I am taking care of me. I become unaware of anything that doesn't effect my survival until crap is under control again. This might be bad since my buddy is also ignored and I am in solo mode. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!*
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28th March 2008, 19:46	#8 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,189	Re: Stress -- Handling Survival Can't recall the reference but I remember reading about a study where they'd tested people who had survived major panic situations, burning planes, sinking ships and the like and they found that high percentage of them had naturally elevated seratonin levels. They'll be urine testing us on boats next! Cheers, Stuart __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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