Design faults on the CCR I dive:

jiseson · 23rd March 2008, 20:34

I still maintain if more divers' used checklist -most problems would have been prevented.

Dutchy · 23rd March 2008, 20:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson)

I still maintain...

Good for you

Nah seriously I don't disagree with you it's just that some things can't be easily spotted. A harmless example (exept for your wallet) is the o-ring in an old-style KISS display. You know it wasn't properly inserted no earlier than when your display is flooded. If there are dangerous ones I'd like to know and even better see it fixed.

mempilot · 23rd March 2008, 20:50

Johnathan,

I agree. But, we need to stop putting all rebreather deaths into one bucket.

There are diver errors that lead to death, and there are equipment failures/defects that lead to death.

Like you, I believe the majority of deaths are caused by the former, and most likely due to lack of checklist usage.

I would hope that his thread would take a look at the smaller percentage of deaths attributed to equipment/engineering. Until we do, we will be diluting diver error and exagerating equimpment failure.

mempilot · 23rd March 2008, 20:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

...the o-ring in an old-style KISS display. You know it wasn't properly inserted no earlier than when your display is flooded. If there are dangerous ones I'd like to know and even better see it fixed.

Has this ever caused a death? This is possibly the type of thing that can be improved, but still relies on diver error to instigate the flood. If the flood is an inconvenience, and not a killer, then I'd say it is a nice to have vs a this is going to kill someone.

jiseson · 23rd March 2008, 21:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Johnathan,

I agree. But, we need to stop putting all rebreather deaths into one bucket.

There are diver errors that lead to death, and there are equipment failures/defects that lead to death.

Like you, I believe the majority of deaths are caused by the former, and most likely due to lack of checklist usage.

I would hope that his thread would take a look at the smaller percentage of deaths attributed to equipment/engineering. Until we do, we will be diluting diver error and exagerating equimpment failure.

fyi it is jonathan not johnathan! lol

Dutchy · 23rd March 2008, 21:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Has this ever caused a death? This is possibly the type of thing that can be improved, but still relies on diver error to instigate the flood. If the flood is an inconvenience, and not a killer, then I'd say it is a nice to have vs a this is going to kill someone.

You are misquoting me m8

. I pointed that out myself. I just tried to bring a point across. The point was that not everything is easy to observe. When the same thing applies for a dangerous thing then that's a design flaw in my book.

Mark Chase · 23rd March 2008, 21:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Has this ever caused a death? This is possibly the type of thing that can be improved, but still relies on diver error to instigate the flood. If the flood is an inconvenience, and not a killer, then I'd say it is a nice to have vs a this is going to kill someone.

Some of the issues I pointed out could play a part in an incident others are merely perceived defects or shortcomings.

I see a lack of BOV in the design as a shortcoming. However if a diver fails to bailout successfully following a C02 hit, its a fatal shortcoming.

Your question just sparked of the idea in my head but it wasn't trying to answer your question to Alex.

If nothing else it gives people an idea of what to look out for.

ATB

Mark

mempilot · 23rd March 2008, 21:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

You are misquoting me m8

. I pointed that out myself. I just tried to bring a point across. The point was that not everything is easy to observe. When the same thing applies for a dangerous thing then that's a design flaw in my book.

Sorry. Wasn't trying to quote you at all. I was asking you a question.

mempilot · 23rd March 2008, 21:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Some of the issues I pointed out could play a part in an incident others are merely perceived defects or shortcomings.

I see a lack of BOV in the design as a shortcoming. However if a diver fails to bailout successfully following a C02 hit, its a fatal shortcoming.

Your question just sparked of the idea in my head but it wasn't trying to answer your question to Alex.

If nothing else it gives people an idea of what to look out for.

ATB

Mark

Roger Roger. Makes sense. Thanks for the explo.

Dutchy · 23rd March 2008, 22:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Sorry. Wasn't trying to quote you at all. I was asking you a question.

The answer was is in the post I made before you even asked the question

23rd March 2008, 20:34	#41 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 562	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: I still maintain if more divers' used checklist -most problems would have been prevented. __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
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23rd March 2008, 20:47	#42 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 764	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson) I still maintain... Good for you Nah seriously I don't disagree with you it's just that some things can't be easily spotted. A harmless example (exept for your wallet) is the o-ring in an old-style KISS display. You know it wasn't properly inserted no earlier than when your display is flooded. If there are dangerous ones I'd like to know and even better see it fixed. __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

23rd March 2008, 20:50	#43 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,448	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Johnathan, I agree. But, we need to stop putting all rebreather deaths into one bucket. There are diver errors that lead to death, and there are equipment failures/defects that lead to death. Like you, I believe the majority of deaths are caused by the former, and most likely due to lack of checklist usage. I would hope that his thread would take a look at the smaller percentage of deaths attributed to equipment/engineering. Until we do, we will be diluting diver error and exagerating equimpment failure. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

23rd March 2008, 20:53	#44 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,448	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) ...the o-ring in an old-style KISS display. You know it wasn't properly inserted no earlier than when your display is flooded. If there are dangerous ones I'd like to know and even better see it fixed. Has this ever caused a death? This is possibly the type of thing that can be improved, but still relies on diver error to instigate the flood. If the flood is an inconvenience, and not a killer, then I'd say it is a nice to have vs a this is going to kill someone. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

23rd March 2008, 21:13	#45 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 562	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Johnathan, I agree. But, we need to stop putting all rebreather deaths into one bucket. There are diver errors that lead to death, and there are equipment failures/defects that lead to death. Like you, I believe the majority of deaths are caused by the former, and most likely due to lack of checklist usage. I would hope that his thread would take a look at the smaller percentage of deaths attributed to equipment/engineering. Until we do, we will be diluting diver error and exagerating equimpment failure. fyi it is jonathan not johnathan! lol __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
(Offline)

23rd March 2008, 21:21	#46 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 764	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Has this ever caused a death? This is possibly the type of thing that can be improved, but still relies on diver error to instigate the flood. If the flood is an inconvenience, and not a killer, then I'd say it is a nice to have vs a this is going to kill someone. You are misquoting me m8 . I pointed that out myself. I just tried to bring a point across. The point was that not everything is easy to observe. When the same thing applies for a dangerous thing then that's a design flaw in my book. __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

23rd March 2008, 21:39	#47 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,694	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Has this ever caused a death? This is possibly the type of thing that can be improved, but still relies on diver error to instigate the flood. If the flood is an inconvenience, and not a killer, then I'd say it is a nice to have vs a this is going to kill someone. Some of the issues I pointed out could play a part in an incident others are merely perceived defects or shortcomings. I see a lack of BOV in the design as a shortcoming. However if a diver fails to bailout successfully following a C02 hit, its a fatal shortcoming. Your question just sparked of the idea in my head but it wasn't trying to answer your question to Alex. If nothing else it gives people an idea of what to look out for. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Offline)

23rd March 2008, 21:57	#48 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,448	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) You are misquoting me m8 . I pointed that out myself. I just tried to bring a point across. The point was that not everything is easy to observe. When the same thing applies for a dangerous thing then that's a design flaw in my book. Sorry. Wasn't trying to quote you at all. I was asking you a question. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

23rd March 2008, 21:58	#49 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,448	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Some of the issues I pointed out could play a part in an incident others are merely perceived defects or shortcomings. I see a lack of BOV in the design as a shortcoming. However if a diver fails to bailout successfully following a C02 hit, its a fatal shortcoming. Your question just sparked of the idea in my head but it wasn't trying to answer your question to Alex. If nothing else it gives people an idea of what to look out for. ATB Mark Roger Roger. Makes sense. Thanks for the explo. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Online)

23rd March 2008, 22:02	#50 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 764	Re: Design faults on the CCR I dive: Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Sorry. Wasn't trying to quote you at all. I was asking you a question. The answer was is in the post I made before you even asked the question __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

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