Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant…

***diverklondike*** · 21st March 2008, 20:28

As I have been reading some of the various threads lately around rebreather safety, rebreather design, and to be honest lots of finger pointing, I have been rather frustrated about people’s lack of willingness to take responsibility for their own actions.

Further we have been saddened recently with the loss of several Rebreather divers over the last several months and a couple near misses.

I can’t help wonder if some level of complacency was not involved in each and every one of these incidents. The reason that I raise this issue is that I am not aware of any type of Rebreather failure that could not be addressed through proper action of the diver.

Each of us needs to ask ourselves the following questions before every dive:

1) Do you have the appropriate training and experience for the dive that we are about to undertake?
2) Have you been maintaining our equipment properly?
3) Have you done the appropriate predive check on equipment? (This includes being willing to call the dive if there is an issue with your equipment)
4) Do you have appropriate bailout for the dive that you are about to undertake?
5) Do you have a plan for what you will do if the s$(*)#& hits the fan and have you been practicing the associated drills? (This may or may not include a buddy.)

If you have not taken all of the above into account before you get your fins wet, you are not being fair to your loved ones. If the worst ends up happening, they will not believe that you could have been stupid enough to not asked these five simple questions before getting into the water. They will look and ask what could have gone wrong with the equipment and look to place the blame on someone other than their loved one.

Several years ago Richard Pyle wrote an excellent article entitled “A Learner’s Guide To Rebreathers”. To this day it’s probably one of the best documents that I have ever read on the subject. I would suspect that most of us have read it at least once. For those that have not, here is a link to one of the several places where it can be found. In particular I call your attention to the paragraph entitled Staying Alive on a Closed Circuit Rebreather.

http://tektraining.org/downloads/learners_guide_to_rebreathers.pdf

I apologize to anyone that has lost a loved one diving that may be offended by this post. It’s not my intent.

I am strictly tired of people having accidents and dying when they were most likely preventable by actions that they could have taken on their own.

I know that if something happens to me while diving, it would most probably be due to me not following my own advice in asking those five simple questions.

Enough of the traitor crap and trying to build rebreather for dummies. How about if the Instructors don’t certify the one’s that shouldn’t be diving them and the IT’s don’t make instructors out of people that should not be instructors.

Let’s stay safe this season and take responsibility for our own actions by not letting complacency take over.

Mark

OceanOpportunity · 21st March 2008, 20:43

Mark,

all incredibly well said, and points that needed to be made.

I've been diving ccr's since 2002, and while I by no means consider myself an expert, I am continually amazed at the degree of complacency out there, and in many ways feel that it is a product of our industry. In the 'good ole days', people learned to dive much out of necessity, or made such a huge investment to get into it, that there was no option but to stick with it..with that comes a degree of self-education that is incredibly necessary, especially with Rebreather diving.

Today, it's possible to go from an OW diver to an instructor in less than a year if you arewilling to pay for it...THIS IS FLAT OUT WRONG. The fact that similar progressions are enabled within technical diving community are also wrong. I'm not opposed to anyone needing to make a living, but somehow we, as a community, need to ensure a better system of checks and balances along the way to keep those back that need to be kept back.

One of my favorite stories was a charter to the U853 I was divemastering in 1998. This was at the early part of the tech 'boom' so to speak. I had a 'certified technical diver' among my clients all dolled up like a christmas tree with twin 120's, 4 reels, 5 lights, a helmet, 50 lbs of lead, and hoses running upside down and backwards. Needless to say he jumped off the boat into 130' of choppy new england water with no fins on...straight to the bottom, and stragiht back like a cork. Fortunately he was ok...my point is that this person clearly missed somethiong critical along the way, and whoever his instructor was did him no favors...he was complacent in lots of ways, and plain out ignorant to what technical diving was all about.

I know Rebreather's are 'cool' right now, but in reality for how many people are they truly 'necessary'? I know that some very experienced divers have had tragic accidents, and we should be able to learn very much from these incidents. The folks skipping from class to class that still havent learned how to dive, I fear, are where we need to be especially mindful, as their complacency is not necessarily their fault, rather the product of all of us and our lack of being better police as instructors, and out on the water.

**Dave Sutton** · 21st March 2008, 23:33

Well said. Gloves-Off and Rant-On. We need more of it. The emporer has no clothes... it's OK to say it.

My read? There are way too many people diving rebreathers that don't belong on them. This is a sport where being a touch of a fascist works well: There are great masses of people who simply aren't smart enough, disciplined enough, or adaptable enough to take their lives in their own hands on a regular basis. When they get killed it's simply Darwin at work. It happens on open circuit... it happens faster on a rebreather. You and I have sat next to each other in a church burying one of our friends, and it sucks. I'm still pissed at him for dying. I look at his rig sitting here every day.... and it sobers me.

Now.... there's zip we can do about it, as long as a checkbook buys equipment. I'm sadly resigned to the fact that this will always be an issue, and that there's precious little we can do about it. The only 'solution' is the idiot-proof rebreather and *good luck* building one.

Dave

.

mempilot · 21st March 2008, 23:51

I agree with the points made.

Might I make this comment:

Are the training agencies tough enough? Are they desperate enough to be lax on standards? With the growth of the Rebreather market there is obviously a race to outfit instructors. Seems a newly vinted Rebreather diver can go to newly vinted Rebreather instructor quite quickly. Does this lack of experience do the trainee a disservice?

I selected my instructor not based on money. She ain't cheap.

I selected my instructor not on location. I had to travel to her.

I selected my instructor not on the unit certified on. She is cert'd on most.

I selected my instructor not on agency. She is qualified to teach them all.

I selected my instructor on her experience and reputation. She has ass loads of both.

I got what I paid for: Someone with loads to pass on and someone that would take the check and then say no if I didn't cut the grade.

The problem. Not everyone is willing to travel to the most expensive instructor who might say no, so they cut corners on this very important part of owning a Rebreather.

Are the agencies part of the problem. I believe so. They want to make it easier to get more and more trainees certified. The number of Rebreather instructors available seems to multiply by the day, and many of them haven't got more than little experience on their unit, let alone RB's in general.

undrh2o · 21st March 2008, 23:56

Well said - as a diver pursuing rebreathers now - with every memorial thread I read I question my own motives and whether I'm ready to make the mental shift to start at zero again. The Pyle article I've read several times - and taken to heart.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

<snip> The only 'solution' is the idiot-proof rebreather <snip>
.

It's been said before - build it and they will build a better idiot.

***diverklondike*** · 22nd March 2008, 00:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity)

The folks skipping from class to class that still havent learned how to dive, I fear, are where we need to be especially mindful, as their complacency is not necessarily their fault, rather the product of all of us and our lack of being better police as instructors, and out on the water.

Mike,

Thanks for your comments. I agree with all of your points with the exception that in the end the diver may not be responsible for their own complacency

Even a good instructor can only do so much. At the end of the day I think complacency IS the individual diver's fault. That's part of the point that people need to stop placing so much blame on the equipment.

For example: Several years ago an experienced OC diver jumped in the water overweighed with their gas turned off. The diver sank to the bottom and died. This was obviously gross diver error. We all know that there have been cases of Rebreather divers not turning their O2 on before getting in the water. They ultimately ignored their PP02 monitors and they died. While both have the same gross diver error, in the case of the RB we frequently blame it on the equipment.

Compounding the matter is that there are Rebreather instructors that are not qualified. Regardless, it's the responsibility of the diver to pick a well qualified instructor and not necessarily the person that is providing the lowest price for training...

Mark

Skipbreather · 22nd March 2008, 03:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Each of us needs to ask ourselves the following questions before every dive:

1) Do you have the appropriate training and experience for the dive that we are about to undertake?
2) Have you been maintaining our equipment properly?
3) Have you done the appropriate predive check on equipment? (This includes being willing to call the dive if there is an issue with your equipment)
4) Do you have appropriate bailout for the dive that you are about to undertake?
5) Do you have a plan for what you will do if the s$(*)#& hits the fan and have you been practicing the associated drills? (This may or may not include a buddy.)

Let’s stay safe this season and take responsibility for our own actions by not letting complacency take over.

Mark

Mark-

As they toast at many a military dining in: "Here Here!". Green your way!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Now.... there's zip we can do about it, as long as a checkbook buys equipment.

Dave

.

Dave-

Respectfully disagree, Dave. It is, largely, an ATTITUDE problem. The short version: Peer group pressure. Won't work with everyone, but is still a powerful motivator. While we cannot force a change through regulation or legislation (hold nose), what we CAN do: Lead by example. Quietly insist reasonable measures/ procedures are going to be used if you're gonna dive with whoever. Practice what is preached while others do the mad, suicidal scramble to be first into the water (not saying you don't).

Use the time honored method of praise in public, criticize in private. Make it a non (socially) threatening event. As you are well aware, there is a lot of ruler-to-peker action that goes on. Have a quiet conversation w/ the guy walking on thin ice (if he survives) about why you did what you did and ask why he didn't. If he is receptive, use the 'teachable moment'. If not, don't press but make sure you're not around when Darwin comes a callin'.

Dive safe, guys.
Ken

MarkZ · 22nd March 2008, 03:50

While risking what now may end up being a necessity to attend an Easter service I think I have to agree with a "Sutton Sarcasm". In essence we all have to a certain extent accept and live with the fact that we will not be able to prevent accidents occuring. Not one of us can fully prevent an individual from doing the wrong thing in diving or anything else in life for that matter. There are simply some things in this world that a reasonable explaination will not be soon forthcoming.

In diving we often blame equipment or instruction. While there is not a rebreather made or sold that does not have room for improvement I defy anybody to show any manufacturer that is not attempting to make a safe unit let alone intentionally selling a dangerous unit. I believe it was Leon who said something to the effect that a foolproof unit will only produce better fools. That could not be more true. On my desk I am looking at a simple pencil. In the past 150 years or so there have been any number of improvements to this simple device designed and marketed. I find humor in the fact that the original design still adequately performs its intended purpose and even the most sophisicated version available can cause injury if procedures for proper use are not followed.

Instruction has room for improvement but at the same time even the best instructors cannot guarantee that an individual will follow his training the first dive after a course. Nobody gets more angry then myself seeing the abuses that occur but on the other hand there is really not an easy solution. I personally feel that the standards should be increased but in reality that will not stop the problem. Simple truth is that in many respects it is an honor based system and not everybody is honorable. For these reasons can any knowledgeable rebreather diver not be absolutely terrified at the concept of putting divers on a unit in an initial open water class?

In summary I totally agree with the initial post. Hat's off to you Mark. Individual responsibility is the key. It is up to the individual to get a decent instructor, regardless of cost. It is the responsibility of the individual to follow his training and equally important to continue learning beyond their initial course. It is up to the individual to keep the skills taught and learned in practice. It is up to an individual to keep their equipment in proper repair and follow the manufacturers recommendations as to it's use. It is up to an indivdual to determine if they are truly prepared for a dive with all the proper equipment and training. Only an indivdual can keep their own egos in check.

Mike · 22nd March 2008, 05:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

I got what I paid for: Someone with loads to pass on and someone that would take the check and then say no if I didn't cut the grade.

The problem. Not everyone is willing to travel to the most expensive instructor who might say no, so they cut corners on this very important part of owning a Rebreather.

Is it only me that sees the irony of these comments in a post about being personally responsible?
Instead of advocating the passing of responsibility about whether you are good enough to dive to a third party (ie the instructor), how about keeping it yourself. Shouldn't we be doing dives we feel ready for, rather than paying a third party to make that decision for us?

Instruction is only part of the story - I have certainly learnt more outside of courses than I ever learnt within them. If a rational adult is able to determine for themselves that they are capable of diving a specific rebreather, why do they need to submit to an instructor to verify that? After all, as pretty well all the rebreather divers who have died took courses, there are a bunch of instructors out there who made the wrong decision on behalf of a student by passing them.

Let's take full responsibility for our own actions, and not blame manufacturers, instructors, boat drivers or buddies. Perhaps in turn we will gain the freedom to do what we want?

Mike

Tino de Rijk · 22nd March 2008, 06:15

Fully agree, Mark.
Even more interesting as this article is indeed almost 10 years old, in a time there were maybe around a 100 Rebreather recreational Rebreather divers in the world. Also fascinating, because Richard was (and AFAIK still is; he is present here on Rebreather World, by the way) diving a CIS Lunar, considered one of the best breathers ever build.
Richard was prophetic, and well ahead of his time. He paid dearly for gaining that experience, by the way, as you can read in another epic honest article of him somewhere on the net. I think it is called "Confessions of a mortal diver". Too lazy to look it up, but Google is your friend.

21st March 2008, 20:28	#1 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… As I have been reading some of the various threads lately around rebreather safety, rebreather design, and to be honest lots of finger pointing, I have been rather frustrated about people’s lack of willingness to take responsibility for their own actions. Further we have been saddened recently with the loss of several Rebreather divers over the last several months and a couple near misses. I can’t help wonder if some level of complacency was not involved in each and every one of these incidents. The reason that I raise this issue is that I am not aware of any type of Rebreather failure that could not be addressed through proper action of the diver. Each of us needs to ask ourselves the following questions before every dive: 1) Do you have the appropriate training and experience for the dive that we are about to undertake? 2) Have you been maintaining our equipment properly? 3) Have you done the appropriate predive check on equipment? (This includes being willing to call the dive if there is an issue with your equipment) 4) Do you have appropriate bailout for the dive that you are about to undertake? 5) Do you have a plan for what you will do if the s$(*)#& hits the fan and have you been practicing the associated drills? (This may or may not include a buddy.) If you have not taken all of the above into account before you get your fins wet, you are not being fair to your loved ones. If the worst ends up happening, they will not believe that you could have been stupid enough to not asked these five simple questions before getting into the water. They will look and ask what could have gone wrong with the equipment and look to place the blame on someone other than their loved one. Several years ago Richard Pyle wrote an excellent article entitled “A Learner’s Guide To Rebreathers”. To this day it’s probably one of the best documents that I have ever read on the subject. I would suspect that most of us have read it at least once. For those that have not, here is a link to one of the several places where it can be found. In particular I call your attention to the paragraph entitled Staying Alive on a Closed Circuit Rebreather. http://tektraining.org/downloads/learners_guide_to_rebreathers.pdf I apologize to anyone that has lost a loved one diving that may be offended by this post. It’s not my intent. I am strictly tired of people having accidents and dying when they were most likely preventable by actions that they could have taken on their own. I know that if something happens to me while diving, it would most probably be due to me not following my own advice in asking those five simple questions. Enough of the traitor crap and trying to build rebreather for dummies. How about if the Instructors don’t certify the one’s that shouldn’t be diving them and the IT’s don’t make instructors out of people that should not be instructors. Let’s stay safe this season and take responsibility for our own actions by not letting complacency take over. Mark
(Online)

21st March 2008, 20:43	#2 (permalink)
OceanOpportunity for a world of water Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Providence, RI USA Posts: 479	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Mark, all incredibly well said, and points that needed to be made. I've been diving ccr's since 2002, and while I by no means consider myself an expert, I am continually amazed at the degree of complacency out there, and in many ways feel that it is a product of our industry. In the 'good ole days', people learned to dive much out of necessity, or made such a huge investment to get into it, that there was no option but to stick with it..with that comes a degree of self-education that is incredibly necessary, especially with Rebreather diving. Today, it's possible to go from an OW diver to an instructor in less than a year if you arewilling to pay for it...THIS IS FLAT OUT WRONG. The fact that similar progressions are enabled within technical diving community are also wrong. I'm not opposed to anyone needing to make a living, but somehow we, as a community, need to ensure a better system of checks and balances along the way to keep those back that need to be kept back. One of my favorite stories was a charter to the U853 I was divemastering in 1998. This was at the early part of the tech 'boom' so to speak. I had a 'certified technical diver' among my clients all dolled up like a christmas tree with twin 120's, 4 reels, 5 lights, a helmet, 50 lbs of lead, and hoses running upside down and backwards. Needless to say he jumped off the boat into 130' of choppy new england water with no fins on...straight to the bottom, and stragiht back like a cork. Fortunately he was ok...my point is that this person clearly missed somethiong critical along the way, and whoever his instructor was did him no favors...he was complacent in lots of ways, and plain out ignorant to what technical diving was all about. I know Rebreather's are 'cool' right now, but in reality for how many people are they truly 'necessary'? I know that some very experienced divers have had tragic accidents, and we should be able to learn very much from these incidents. The folks skipping from class to class that still havent learned how to dive, I fear, are where we need to be especially mindful, as their complacency is not necessarily their fault, rather the product of all of us and our lack of being better police as instructors, and out on the water. __________________ Michael Lombardi Oceans of Opportunity www.oceanopportunity.com Elected Director, Society for Human Performance in Extreme Environments MN'07, The Explorers Club Project Manager, Diving a Dream
(Offline)

21st March 2008, 23:33	#3 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,511	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Well said. Gloves-Off and Rant-On. We need more of it. The emporer has no clothes... it's OK to say it. My read? There are way too many people diving rebreathers that don't belong on them. This is a sport where being a touch of a fascist works well: There are great masses of people who simply aren't smart enough, disciplined enough, or adaptable enough to take their lives in their own hands on a regular basis. When they get killed it's simply Darwin at work. It happens on open circuit... it happens faster on a rebreather. You and I have sat next to each other in a church burying one of our friends, and it sucks. I'm still pissed at him for dying. I look at his rig sitting here every day.... and it sobers me. Now.... there's zip we can do about it, as long as a checkbook buys equipment. I'm sadly resigned to the fact that this will always be an issue, and that there's precious little we can do about it. The only 'solution' is the idiot-proof rebreather and good luck building one. Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 21st March 2008 at 23:38.
(Offline)

21st March 2008, 23:51	#4 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,179	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… I agree with the points made. Might I make this comment: Are the training agencies tough enough? Are they desperate enough to be lax on standards? With the growth of the Rebreather market there is obviously a race to outfit instructors. Seems a newly vinted Rebreather diver can go to newly vinted Rebreather instructor quite quickly. Does this lack of experience do the trainee a disservice? I selected my instructor not based on money. She ain't cheap. I selected my instructor not on location. I had to travel to her. I selected my instructor not on the unit certified on. She is cert'd on most. I selected my instructor not on agency. She is qualified to teach them all. I selected my instructor on her experience and reputation. She has ass loads of both. I got what I paid for: Someone with loads to pass on and someone that would take the check and then say no if I didn't cut the grade. The problem. Not everyone is willing to travel to the most expensive instructor who might say no, so they cut corners on this very important part of owning a Rebreather. Are the agencies part of the problem. I believe so. They want to make it easier to get more and more trainees certified. The number of Rebreather instructors available seems to multiply by the day, and many of them haven't got more than little experience on their unit, let alone RB's in general. __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
(Online)

21st March 2008, 23:56	#5 (permalink)
undrh2o Veteran Noob Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 192	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Well said - as a diver pursuing rebreathers now - with every memorial thread I read I question my own motives and whether I'm ready to make the mental shift to start at zero again. The Pyle article I've read several times - and taken to heart. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) <snip> The only 'solution' is the idiot-proof rebreather <snip> . It's been said before - build it and they will build a better idiot.
(Offline)

22nd March 2008, 00:49	#6 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity) The folks skipping from class to class that still havent learned how to dive, I fear, are where we need to be especially mindful, as their complacency is not necessarily their fault, rather the product of all of us and our lack of being better police as instructors, and out on the water. Mike, Thanks for your comments. I agree with all of your points with the exception that in the end the diver may not be responsible for their own complacency Even a good instructor can only do so much. At the end of the day I think complacency IS the individual diver's fault. That's part of the point that people need to stop placing so much blame on the equipment. For example: Several years ago an experienced OC diver jumped in the water overweighed with their gas turned off. The diver sank to the bottom and died. This was obviously gross diver error. We all know that there have been cases of Rebreather divers not turning their O2 on before getting in the water. They ultimately ignored their PP02 monitors and they died. While both have the same gross diver error, in the case of the RB we frequently blame it on the equipment. Compounding the matter is that there are Rebreather instructors that are not qualified. Regardless, it's the responsibility of the diver to pick a well qualified instructor and not necessarily the person that is providing the lowest price for training... Mark
(Online)

22nd March 2008, 03:44	#7 (permalink)
Skipbreather WAY past the barber pole Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 528	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Each of us needs to ask ourselves the following questions before every dive: 1) Do you have the appropriate training and experience for the dive that we are about to undertake? 2) Have you been maintaining our equipment properly? 3) Have you done the appropriate predive check on equipment? (This includes being willing to call the dive if there is an issue with your equipment) 4) Do you have appropriate bailout for the dive that you are about to undertake? 5) Do you have a plan for what you will do if the s$()#& hits the fan and have you been practicing the associated drills? (This may or may not include a buddy.) Let’s stay safe this season and take responsibility for our own actions by not letting complacency take over. Mark Mark- As they toast at many a military dining in: "Here Here!". Green your way! Quote:* (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Now.... there's zip we can do about it, as long as a checkbook buys equipment. Dave . Dave- Respectfully disagree, Dave. It is, largely, an ATTITUDE problem. The short version: Peer group pressure. Won't work with everyone, but is still a powerful motivator. While we cannot force a change through regulation or legislation (hold nose), what we CAN do: Lead by example. Quietly insist reasonable measures/ procedures are going to be used if you're gonna dive with whoever. Practice what is preached while others do the mad, suicidal scramble to be first into the water (not saying you don't). Use the time honored method of praise in public, criticize in private. Make it a non (socially) threatening event. As you are well aware, there is a lot of ruler-to-peker action that goes on. Have a quiet conversation w/ the guy walking on thin ice (if he survives) about why you did what you did and ask why he didn't. If he is receptive, use the 'teachable moment'. If not, don't press but make sure you're not around when Darwin comes a callin'. Dive safe, guys. Ken __________________ "Entropy RULES! Enjoy the interim."
(Offline)

22nd March 2008, 03:50	#8 (permalink)
MarkZ New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: PA USA Posts: 54	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… While risking what now may end up being a necessity to attend an Easter service I think I have to agree with a "Sutton Sarcasm". In essence we all have to a certain extent accept and live with the fact that we will not be able to prevent accidents occuring. Not one of us can fully prevent an individual from doing the wrong thing in diving or anything else in life for that matter. There are simply some things in this world that a reasonable explaination will not be soon forthcoming. In diving we often blame equipment or instruction. While there is not a rebreather made or sold that does not have room for improvement I defy anybody to show any manufacturer that is not attempting to make a safe unit let alone intentionally selling a dangerous unit. I believe it was Leon who said something to the effect that a foolproof unit will only produce better fools. That could not be more true. On my desk I am looking at a simple pencil. In the past 150 years or so there have been any number of improvements to this simple device designed and marketed. I find humor in the fact that the original design still adequately performs its intended purpose and even the most sophisicated version available can cause injury if procedures for proper use are not followed. Instruction has room for improvement but at the same time even the best instructors cannot guarantee that an individual will follow his training the first dive after a course. Nobody gets more angry then myself seeing the abuses that occur but on the other hand there is really not an easy solution. I personally feel that the standards should be increased but in reality that will not stop the problem. Simple truth is that in many respects it is an honor based system and not everybody is honorable. For these reasons can any knowledgeable rebreather diver not be absolutely terrified at the concept of putting divers on a unit in an initial open water class? In summary I totally agree with the initial post. Hat's off to you Mark. Individual responsibility is the key. It is up to the individual to get a decent instructor, regardless of cost. It is the responsibility of the individual to follow his training and equally important to continue learning beyond their initial course. It is up to the individual to keep the skills taught and learned in practice. It is up to an individual to keep their equipment in proper repair and follow the manufacturers recommendations as to it's use. It is up to an indivdual to determine if they are truly prepared for a dive with all the proper equipment and training. Only an indivdual can keep their own egos in check.
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22nd March 2008, 05:33	#9 (permalink)
Mike Prism 'prentice Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 322	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) I got what I paid for: Someone with loads to pass on and someone that would take the check and then say no if I didn't cut the grade. The problem. Not everyone is willing to travel to the most expensive instructor who might say no, so they cut corners on this very important part of owning a Rebreather. Is it only me that sees the irony of these comments in a post about being personally responsible? Instead of advocating the passing of responsibility about whether you are good enough to dive to a third party (ie the instructor), how about keeping it yourself. Shouldn't we be doing dives we feel ready for, rather than paying a third party to make that decision for us? Instruction is only part of the story - I have certainly learnt more outside of courses than I ever learnt within them. If a rational adult is able to determine for themselves that they are capable of diving a specific rebreather, why do they need to submit to an instructor to verify that? After all, as pretty well all the rebreather divers who have died took courses, there are a bunch of instructors out there who made the wrong decision on behalf of a student by passing them. Let's take full responsibility for our own actions, and not blame manufacturers, instructors, boat drivers or buddies. Perhaps in turn we will gain the freedom to do what we want? Mike __________________ Open ....... Closed Mind ........ Loop
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22nd March 2008, 06:15	#10 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 309	Re: Taking Responsibility for Complacency – A short rant… Fully agree, Mark. Even more interesting as this article is indeed almost 10 years old, in a time there were maybe around a 100 Rebreather recreational Rebreather divers in the world. Also fascinating, because Richard was (and AFAIK still is; he is present here on Rebreather World, by the way) diving a CIS Lunar, considered one of the best breathers ever build. Richard was prophetic, and well ahead of his time. He paid dearly for gaining that experience, by the way, as you can read in another epic honest article of him somewhere on the net. I think it is called "Confessions of a mortal diver". Too lazy to look it up, but Google is your friend.
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