Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof?

chunter · 20th March 2008, 18:12

This is a poll in response to the "Rebreather World Traitor" thread. There is a heated debate there as to whether manufacturers should be pushed for greater safety measures because of fatalities, or if it is the user who is personally responsible for their well being.

Brainx3 · 20th March 2008, 18:15

Hi,

I think it would work better if people could vote with several options.

Best Regards. Wael

Packhorse · 20th March 2008, 18:15

How could they be?

chunter · 20th March 2008, 18:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse)

How could they be?

My feeling exactly. I wanted to have more options, but in the end, I decided to make it a "Yes" or "No" issue.

I love to oversimplify.

**wedivebc** · 20th March 2008, 18:50

Leon once told me "We keep trying to make idiot-proof rebreathers and they keep coming up with bigger idiots"

***diverklondike*** · 20th March 2008, 18:54

Hmmmmmm......

Maybe the poll should be "Should Dummies be allowed to dive Rebreathers?"

**sfldiver** · 20th March 2008, 18:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by chunter)

This is a poll in response to the "Rebreather World Traitor" thread. There is a heated debate there as to whether manufacturers should be pushed for greater safety measures because of fatalities, or if it is the user who is personally responsible for their well being.

I think manufacturers are already making reasonable efforts to improve the safety of new rebreathers, given the amount of demand and price point constraints they are currently contending with. Items such as, huds, vibrating dsv's/huds, flashing handsets, automatic firing selonoids @ low PO2, EAC's with conservative recommended usage times, multiple redundant sensors, sensor voting logics, 4th cell modifications, bov's, etc. reflect their efforts. It would certainly nice if even far more sophisticated safety features were available. I believe the new Cis Lunar Rebreather is one further indication that rebreather manufacturers are trying to puch the envelope; hopefully that technology will not take too long to eventually spill over into the technical rebreather diving world, but I still feel pretty good about manufacturers efforts to improve the safety measures in current and future rebreathers.

Just my $0.02!

Brainx3 · 20th March 2008, 19:06

Hi,

Dave, this is actually why cars accidents wouldn't be eliminated, nor will airplanes accidents nor will rebreathers accidents. Leon said: "We keep trying to make idiot-proof rebreathers and they keep coming up with bigger idiots". If someone is complaining because his/her rebreather failed because of the USER'S negligance or improper maintenance, then even if that user would have a submarine then it will fail with time because of lack of maintenance. Someone was making a point that even experienced divers and instructors have died on their units, I would say that's true, BUT some people would start taking things for granted the more they become experienced, I would say that human error occurs no matter what as long as the diver isn't giving his/her machine enough attention and following safety rules. Of course of the other hand I do want like everyone else to have something safer and easier to dive but eventually when I think that I'm going to dive tomorrow then I would better start checking my gear today to see what I'm missing for it (As for example servicing my first stages if found a problem, or replacing a cell if I found it faulty as new cells would take several hours to start giving the correct voltage, etc.)

Best Regards. Wael

chunter · 20th March 2008, 19:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Hmmmmmm......

Maybe the poll should be "Should Dummies be allowed to dive Rebreathers?"

That is very true. The problem is that most people won't admit to it, and they are often not easy to spot initially.

You should start a poll on that one.

**sfldiver** · 20th March 2008, 19:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brainx3)

Hi,

Dave, this is actually why cars accidents wouldn't be eliminated, nor will airplanes accidents nor will rebreathers accidents. Leon said: "We keep trying to make idiot-proof rebreathers and they keep coming up with bigger idiots". If someone is complaining because his/her rebreather failed because of the USER'S negligance or improper maintenance, then even if that user would have a submarine then it will fail with time because of lack of maintenance. Someone was making a point that even experienced divers and instructors have died on their units, I would say that's true, BUT some people would start taking things for granted the more they become experienced, I would say that human error occurs no matter what as long as the diver isn't giving his/her machine enough attention and following safety rules. Of course of the other hand I do want like everyone else to have something safer and easier to dive but eventually when I think that I'm going to dive tomorrow then I would better start checking my gear today to see what I'm missing for it (As for example servicing my first stages if found a problem, or replacing a cell if I found it faulty as new cells would take several hours to start giving the correct voltage, etc.)

Best Regards. Wael

As someone much wiser than me once said, "If you get it, then there's no explaination needed, but if you don't get it, then there's no explaination possible!"

Well said Wael!

View Poll Results: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof?
Yes, Courts & Govt. regs. keep manufacturers in check. RBs shouldn't malfunction.	27	22.50%
No. Most rebreather deaths are from user error. People are responsible for their own well being.	94	78.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

20th March 2008, 18:12	#1 (permalink)
chunter I like diving Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Honolulu Posts: 463	Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? This is a poll in response to the "Rebreather World Traitor" thread. There is a heated debate there as to whether manufacturers should be pushed for greater safety measures because of fatalities, or if it is the user who is personally responsible for their well being. __________________ "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Emerson "Hobgoblin is a cool word." - Charlie
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 18:15	#2 (permalink)
Brainx3 Temporary Read only mode for site infractions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 274	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Hi, I think it would work better if people could vote with several options. Best Regards. Wael
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 18:15	#3 (permalink)
Packhorse Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Auckland New Zealand Posts: 100	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? How could they be? __________________ There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 18:32	#4 (permalink)
chunter I like diving Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Honolulu Posts: 463	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse) How could they be? My feeling exactly. I wanted to have more options, but in the end, I decided to make it a "Yes" or "No" issue. I love to oversimplify. __________________ "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Emerson "Hobgoblin is a cool word." - Charlie
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 18:50	#5 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,358	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Leon once told me "We keep trying to make idiot-proof rebreathers and they keep coming up with bigger idiots" __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Online)

20th March 2008, 18:54	#6 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Hmmmmmm...... Maybe the poll should be "Should Dummies be allowed to dive Rebreathers?"
(Online)

20th March 2008, 18:55	#7 (permalink)
sfldiver Team Optima Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 663	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Quote: (Originally Posted by chunter) This is a poll in response to the "Rebreather World Traitor" thread. There is a heated debate there as to whether manufacturers should be pushed for greater safety measures because of fatalities, or if it is the user who is personally responsible for their well being. I think manufacturers are already making reasonable efforts to improve the safety of new rebreathers, given the amount of demand and price point constraints they are currently contending with. Items such as, huds, vibrating dsv's/huds, flashing handsets, automatic firing selonoids @ low PO2, EAC's with conservative recommended usage times, multiple redundant sensors, sensor voting logics, 4th cell modifications, bov's, etc. reflect their efforts. It would certainly nice if even far more sophisticated safety features were available. I believe the new Cis Lunar Rebreather is one further indication that rebreather manufacturers are trying to puch the envelope; hopefully that technology will not take too long to eventually spill over into the technical rebreather diving world, but I still feel pretty good about manufacturers efforts to improve the safety measures in current and future rebreathers. Just my $0.02! __________________ *Currently piloting & shooting...* Dive Rite O2ptima FX Rigged w/ a Dsix Custom Aluminum Frame, Nomad Wing, Transpac Harness and VR3 Computer w/ VPM-B/E & a 4th Cell Sensor Link.* Canon PowerShot G9 Digital Camera *Rigged in a Patima-PDCH 2008 G9 Aluminum Housing w/ an Inon UWL-100 Achromat Wide Conversion Lens, 2 Inon UCL-165M67 Close-Up Lenses and 2 Inon Z-240 Strobes.
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 19:06	#8 (permalink)
Brainx3 Temporary Read only mode for site infractions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 274	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Hi, Dave, this is actually why cars accidents wouldn't be eliminated, nor will airplanes accidents nor will rebreathers accidents. Leon said: "We keep trying to make idiot-proof rebreathers and they keep coming up with bigger idiots". If someone is complaining because his/her rebreather failed because of the USER'S negligance or improper maintenance, then even if that user would have a submarine then it will fail with time because of lack of maintenance. Someone was making a point that even experienced divers and instructors have died on their units, I would say that's true, BUT some people would start taking things for granted the more they become experienced, I would say that human error occurs no matter what as long as the diver isn't giving his/her machine enough attention and following safety rules. Of course of the other hand I do want like everyone else to have something safer and easier to dive but eventually when I think that I'm going to dive tomorrow then I would better start checking my gear today to see what I'm missing for it (As for example servicing my first stages if found a problem, or replacing a cell if I found it faulty as new cells would take several hours to start giving the correct voltage, etc.) Best Regards. Wael
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 19:11	#9 (permalink)
chunter I like diving Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Honolulu Posts: 463	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Hmmmmmm...... Maybe the poll should be "Should Dummies be allowed to dive Rebreathers?" That is very true. The problem is that most people won't admit to it, and they are often not easy to spot initially. You should start a poll on that one. __________________ "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Emerson "Hobgoblin is a cool word." - Charlie
(Offline)

20th March 2008, 19:15	#10 (permalink)
sfldiver Team Optima Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 663	Re: Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof? Quote: (Originally Posted by Brainx3) Hi, Dave, this is actually why cars accidents wouldn't be eliminated, nor will airplanes accidents nor will rebreathers accidents. Leon said: "We keep trying to make idiot-proof rebreathers and they keep coming up with bigger idiots". If someone is complaining because his/her rebreather failed because of the USER'S negligance or improper maintenance, then even if that user would have a submarine then it will fail with time because of lack of maintenance. Someone was making a point that even experienced divers and instructors have died on their units, I would say that's true, BUT some people would start taking things for granted the more they become experienced, I would say that human error occurs no matter what as long as the diver isn't giving his/her machine enough attention and following safety rules. Of course of the other hand I do want like everyone else to have something safer and easier to dive but eventually when I think that I'm going to dive tomorrow then I would better start checking my gear today to see what I'm missing for it (As for example servicing my first stages if found a problem, or replacing a cell if I found it faulty as new cells would take several hours to start giving the correct voltage, etc.) Best Regards. Wael As someone much wiser than me once said, "If you get it, then there's no explaination needed, but if you don't get it, then there's no explaination possible!" Well said Wael! __________________ *Currently piloting & shooting...* Dive Rite O2ptima FX Rigged w/ a Dsix Custom Aluminum Frame, Nomad Wing, Transpac Harness and VR3 Computer w/ VPM-B/E & a 4th Cell Sensor Link.* Canon PowerShot G9 Digital Camera *Rigged in a Patima-PDCH 2008 G9 Aluminum Housing w/ an Inon UWL-100 Achromat Wide Conversion Lens, 2 Inon UCL-165M67 Close-Up Lenses and 2 Inon Z-240 Strobes.
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode