Should Rebreathers be Dummyproof?

lizardland

The industry I work in kills more people in a year than any other industry. So they try to make sites ultra safe and tell workers about the safety features. And accidents went up.

Keep the safety features, tell the workers that the place is terrifyingly dangerous and accident figures went down. Go figure...

Awareness of danger is a much better thing than reliance on safety features. Another fact is that the people who are least at risk are old hands who have seen danger (if not directly then clearly through others) and have a great deal of respect for their environment, closely followed by green novices who also have a similar respect for their environment because they are generally so danger aware. The biggest risk group for accidents are those who have been around long enough to have pushed their limits but not long enough to get a scare, people with intermediate experience have far more accidents than any other group.

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Meng_Tze

And that is the fine line. When things happen one can easily point to the 'idiots' using the system and with 'ever growing idiotism', a manufacturer can start to believe they are running behind that curve. If however the things were more failure proof to begin with, the pool of 'idiots' would likely be smaller?

wedivebc

It is interesting when I asked ISC of all the Rebreather accidents they have investigated how many did they have the benefit of a filled out checklist prior to the fatal dive. They said none! This is a fundemental part of training that seems to be the first lapse into complacency that we follow (yes I am guilty too)
I for one will be religiously following a checklist every predive. If anything ever happens to me my family will be able to say, yes he followed his training.

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Meng_Tze

Not discounting the claim or possibility, but just because check lists were not seen/investigated, does not mean they were not there? At the time of emotional distress, pain and hurt, checklists may not be at the forefront of family and buddies minds. In accident scenes, things get lost, dropped and discarded. When information is sent out, things get forgotten.

Just a thought.

sensor330

Training, Training, Training! That's what it boils down to. I was very fortunate in that all for my initial training was done through the military. The military has a way of weeding out the so called "idiots".

I had to preliminary dive course to become a diver with started with 40 guys and ended with 7. So to put in in prospective there were five other unit across the country which ran the same preliminary course so that would have been 200 candidates across Canada and after the weeding out process ended with approximately 35 made it through. Out of those 35 only the top 20 would be selected for initial training with is equivalent to advanced open water on civy street.

So my point is there are individuals out there that probably shouldn't be diving O/C let alone rebreathers. What it boils down to is the almighty dollar. Lets face it, diving is a business and instructors wouldn't make a living if they started failing lots of people and/or worst started out right refusing to train them. I don't believe for one minute that any sort of dummy proof system would make diving safer.

Scott Ensor

Brainx3

Hi,


Check lists are benificial not only to remind you of what you have probably missed or forgotten but also in case of accidents as if people around you see you checking your list everytime before you dive they would know that you are playing by the rules and not just depending on your memory (which sometimes fails due many factors). I really think that it's a healthy routine that can and would have probably saved lives during these years since CCR diving started. It's not a high tech issue, it doesn't cost much, doesn't take much space to keep with your gear, and no words are going to drop off the list with time. get a nice small list and get it luminated. I believe with check lists, more buddy checks, and proper inspection and maintenance things could take another curve in CCR diving. Otherwise if you want to blame society for everything (Car breaking up, rebreathers breaking up, TVs breaking up, hell even my girlfriend breaking up) then be my guest.

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CCR-Wrecker

Scott,
While I agree with the first part of your post. You must consider however: when a diver is certified, he or she will do what they want. This is sometimes contrary to what they were taught. I know this as a tech instructor, I've seen it in a small number of my students.
I must admit that I don't always " Do it by twos*" even though it was how I was trained.

Regards,
Andy
(* A. Driver during Inspo mod 1 c. 2001)

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sensor330

Very true, they can do what they want and it would be a sad day in our society when you are not free to pursue your interests. I was trying to emphasize that training and well I guess discipline are key when it comes to diving. Not all people possess the amount of discipline to ensure each any every dive they do is a safe one.

I just can't say enough about the system I was trained under. The ideals like never quit, leave no one behind, and just having the demand for perfection all the time is invaluable when training new divers. These philosophies will follow them throughout the rest of there diving careers because it will be ingrained in them.

Scott

Gill Envy

Yes I do, and I think they should be beginner proof and intermediate proof and "master" proof too, if it means having:

1. a system that forces the monitoring interval necessary to catch most types of diver error.

2. a system that forces continuous involvement of the user to maintain it's operation.

3. a system with an outstanding low fatality rate.

4. a system that reinforces safe operation, building on the safe habits taught in training.

5. a system that instills vigilance throughout the set up and dive.

6. a system that penalizes you every time, in mostly forgiving ways, for lapses in attention.

7. a system that discourages a level of task loading which distracts from the adequate monitoring/maintaining of the system.

Why reinvent the wheel, this seems remarkably easy to achieve. Add all the monitoring bells and whistles you want, just leave out the set point controller.

Yes, I'm all for it!

(I do realize my current preferences are not backed by conclusive research, but at the moment it seems that the market trends are being driven by market pressures and not science, so i'm not waiting around for facts that seem likely to never come.)

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PCDiver

Luckily we live in a free world where people can choose what rebreather they dive with and how they dive. Gill, what works for you doesn't necesarily mean it works for the rest of the world. MCCR is not an option for me when I'm filming! Capiche?!

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