RBW Traitor

AM

Typical nanny state mentality. We don't need to be protected from ourselves. Regulation at the right level is appropriate and in rebreather diving, increasing safety has to be balanced with over-protective State mechanisms. Since that is the way Britain is heading anyway, it will only be a matter of time before the Govt. starts poking their noses into diving, so they can tax it. So we might as well at least try and have some input into shaping any regulatory practices/bodies, whom may be looking into diving.

No Ron, what we really need protection from is unsafe equipment produced by manufacturers who do not take the appropriate measures to rectify rebreather design faults.

Civilised countries do not require every citizen to own firearms and gun crime against others is the driving factor in banning firearms, not the need to protect people from themselves. There's no relevance between guns and rebreathers. Completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Yes, extensive discussions on how to make our sport safer are clearly "ludicris". At least please try and spell your insults properly

So, why is it ludicrous to promote safety? ANY effort to improve safety is a positive. Be it, educating others, writing to training agencies, disseminating information or any other means of raising awareness. Short of stopping diving completely, we can never stop the deaths but we should be able to at least decrease them and prevent incidents that occur because of A) bad design and B) poor training. Of course, if we stopped diving altogether we'd clearly be safe since we have no guns

Some people are genuinely passionate and committed to improving safety, yet they are castigated in the community and "presumed" instantly to be working towards their own gain. WHY? There isn't a shred of evidence that Alex is operating out of any commercial motivation - only a presumption, which of course has been rebutted completely, by the fact that you cannot substantiate your wild claims. Furthermore, the data, support and FACTS discussed by most other commentators indicate agreement that Alex is making a positive contribution. Sharing of expensive data with other manufacturers is hardly the mark of a commercially motivated "traitor".

Always so emotional and cynical. Mike is not baiting you - he has proferred logical, constructive debate, to which you have been unable to provide any valid equivalent opposing commentary. Instead of letting emotion drive your debates, logical and factual, properly substantiated conclusions would afford a more appropriate contribution and would *possibly* expedite at least some tiny iota of credibility to your debating style. Of course, your hyperbolic assumptions will never be credible but that's nothing new.

Dave Sutton

You might tell that to the Swiss....

All the rest is dead on.


Dave

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mempilot

We keep hearing this over and over, and since fact is so important to most rational people in this thread, please do tell us who these manufacturers are so we can all determine our appropriate action against their units immediately in the name of safer rebreather diving and help lower the death rate.

Maybe to be judged, one must first stand up?

Or, is the statement of willingness to step up in the name of widows and orphans just a marketing charge? Shouldn't we see the list to prevent any future widows and orphans?

Why isn't the list published if this is such a noble crusade?

Or is this thread just the largest and most complex troll in the history of trolling?

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Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"

AM

If you don't know by now, then you need to do some more reading. I can recommend a nearly ten year archive full of user reports of design faults on one unit alone!

Yep, it's all published, as I said, do some more reading.

Ask the original poster.

silent running

Yes Dave, the Swiss always throw a monkey wrench into arguments made by the gun control buddies. It's even more funny when such arguments are made by Europeans.

But I too agree with the rest of AM's post...

Andy Del

Their monkey wrench is called national service. It's a requirement to do 2years (?) and then be on a type of reserve. They get to keeep their weapon under the bed / in the wardrobe. They seem to havae pretty good schools as well...

Unfortunately, a lack of education in other nations completely and utterly defeats the pro-gun lobby. If your only option to respond to a situation is to use a firarm, your seem to have a limited ability at commmunicating. 'No Child Left Behind', etc. programs are a symptom of a fatally flawed system that is doing no one any favours, least of all other citizens who object to being shot-up simply for going to classs, the mall or the post office.

toodles

Andy

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mempilot

I don't think this thread is about user reports of things that broke on their units or changes they would like to see on future models.

This thread is about Alex and his quest for the perfect Rebreather, and more recently, his quest to litigate against those he deems to be dangerous. I'd like to see his list spelled out clearly here or in another thread. 10 years of threads and posts are convoluted. I'm asking for the proponents of Alex's project to summarize them here. Make it simple to save lives. Come on. Post the list here and now.

I've searched for 'list of dangerous rebreathers'. I find no such list. Please provide a link so we can all start saving lives.

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Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"

PCDiver

I would love to see such a list as well. It should contain the following info:
rebreather - design fault - severity level of the design fault - date - units affected - fix (if any)

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silent running

Off topic, Sorry!

Hello Andy, yes national service is good as are "good schools", whatever you might mean by that.

My point (as is any reasonable person's) is that it's not guns that are the problem in the USA, it's the owners. So it's not really an issue of "gun control" but "people control"-and controlling people is fundamentally difficult in a diverse and free society. Notice I said "diverse", something the Swiss are not as compared to the USA. Many advocates of EU style regulations for the USA forget that the populations of any EU country are far more alike than they are different. The USA as a polity differs from just about all other countries given the multitude of different, competing ethnicities and interests struggling for representation in their local and national government. We do not agree with each other easily and thus regulation/requirements for gun ownership is a very contentious issue before anybody ever gets to the 2nd amendment, the right to bare arms and the fine print of what that might mean in the 21st century.

Tying to draw a link between a grade school educational program designed to standardize performance goals to better enable administrators to quickly identify schools that are falling behind and psychotic behavior, is the worst kind of know-nothing, alarmist USA bashing. Are you an educator with a masters degree? Even my liberal NYC public school principal friend agrees with me on this one. Please feel free to shut up now unless you really want to get into a pissing match over which country's white under class is more violent, bigotted and stupid and most importantly, a more numerous percentage of your country's population. -Andy

Dutchy

Who has a commecial interest in advertising their own rebreather as dangerous or maybe even unreliable? Asking the question is answering it. Everyone even trying to carefully gather data to possibly get to such a conclusion has to take a lot of crap. You've been around long enough to know that.


In fact I think there is a bunch of hypocrites at work here. Some have an intrest in certain units (eg because they teach it). Alex doesn't have a recreational unit yet so there's no direct gain in what he's doing. To those that think he never will have it I say stop using the argument that his only goal is to put competition out of business. It's one or the other but not both but since I suspect some judge with their wallet rather than their brain it's not going to happen.

The very title of this topic and the choice of words is unworthy of appearing on Rebreather World I think. It shows a lack of respect to those that participate here and that worries me. Respect for another mans opinion is the very foundation for ones ability to learn and create new insights. Loosing that degrades this forum to the level of a few other forums I don't visit anymore. Let's not go there.

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