Are your skills up to scratch?

decoweenie · 15th October 2005, 07:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

Hmmm! what I actually said was "there are some divers that can and there are some divers that cant" work it out for themselves is what I meant. Anybody who learns through the internet is still being taught, the instructor is just not standing in front of him ready to catch the mistakes!

OK, I didn't actually remember the actual words, just the meaning...

decoweenie · 15th October 2005, 08:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I don't agree..

The IANTD book I cant comment on since I have never read it and don't plan to...

Joe,

How does someone disagree to something that he doesn't know ?

You are starting to sound like a "DIR diver"...

Mdemon · 15th October 2005, 10:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I don't agree..

I believe "mastering Rebreathers" is only useful to those that know nothing about rebreathers.. Its a reasonable general book on RBs but lacks real meat.. I thought it was a waste of my money...

The IANTD book I cant comment on since I have never read it and don't plan to.. I always though the IANTD manuals in general were quite "thin" on details the one exception being the Tech diving encyclopedia which is worth the money..

just my 2 cents..

[Caveat: Newbie!]

I felt the same about the first. The latter (the encyclopedia) I think I read on the boat at Scapa on holiday and found lots of interesting stuff. I'll try and get hold of the other one. The TDI manuals, whilst very readable, are hopeless for skills revision IMVHO.

I'd like two things; a reference manual of generic skills and drills, including the outlandish ones, with pros/cons and how to do it. As Cave/SCH mentioned, having breather-specific info would also be useful, maybe even essential. The second thing I'd like is a reference of the other stuff. The theories of relevant physiology, deco theories, info on all the weird and wonderful gases and how to use them and all the other interesting stuff which is needed out of the water, prior to the actual diving...

Don't want much, do I...

Mdemon · 15th October 2005, 10:14

There are some people who don't have the inclination or ability to self-teach. There are others that do. The benefit of forums like this one is that there are always people to ask who are kind enough to share. Which is, in essence, un-paid peer instruction. I think the trick is to see the concensus and hunt around for the facts to back it up. And there will always be people who get things wrong...

Quote:

"How does someone know which camp s/he is in ?"

and

Quote:

"Who is ultimately responsible if this person gets in the wrong camp and get in real trouble by doing things learnt from the Internet ?"

The former: If someone has enough confidence (and I mean genuine confidence, not pressure from peer/girlfriend/boyfriend) to seek out and implement skills then that's a good indicator that they are likely to be able to self-train.

The latter: The person ultimately responsible is, of course, the diver themself. The law here in the UK is based around reasonable-ness IIRC. It would not be reasonable for someone offering advice over the internet to be held responsible in the same way as an Instructor mightbe during a training session. (IMVVVHO!)

Stuart, would your Mrs or one of her colleagues be prepared to comment on this? It will be important to do if Caveseeker/your plans are to be implemented.

<<<(This smilie needs a wig)

***jradomski*** · 15th October 2005, 11:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Joe,

How does someone disagree to something that he doesn't know ?

You are starting to sound like a "DIR diver"...

I thought my post was pretty clear about mastering rebreathers, not the CCR book.. I did "flip" through it and nothing caught my eye hence my comment "don't plan to" so I'll reserve judgement about that..

My statement frommy standpoint is correct since I dont agree with at least one..

he said
"I believe every rebreather or wannabe CCR diver should have in their book case
Mastering Rebreathers and IANTD's Tek Closed Circut Rebreathers."

**JPJones** · 15th October 2005, 14:12

IANTD has a set of 2 water proof tables of CCR skills that are recommend to be given to all students. I recommend that everyone has a set and practices them regularly. They are table 3400 A&B.

***caveseeker7*** · 15th October 2005, 19:12

John, thanks for the info on the tables.

Joe, relax. Not everyone here has your experience and knowledge,
not everyone here writes the manuals that others learn from.
For most part we just read them.

IMHO neither book covers everything, but both are worth reading.

15th October 2005, 07:56	#11 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) Hmmm! what I actually said was "there are some divers that can and there are some divers that cant" work it out for themselves is what I meant. Anybody who learns through the internet is still being taught, the instructor is just not standing in front of him ready to catch the mistakes! OK, I didn't actually remember the actual words, just the meaning... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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15th October 2005, 08:07	#12 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I don't agree.. The IANTD book I cant comment on since I have never read it and don't plan to... Joe, How does someone disagree to something that he doesn't know ? You are starting to sound like a "DIR diver"... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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15th October 2005, 10:06	#13 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,906	Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I don't agree.. I believe "mastering Rebreathers" is only useful to those that know nothing about rebreathers.. Its a reasonable general book on RBs but lacks real meat.. I thought it was a waste of my money... The IANTD book I cant comment on since I have never read it and don't plan to.. I always though the IANTD manuals in general were quite "thin" on details the one exception being the Tech diving encyclopedia which is worth the money.. just my 2 cents.. [Caveat: Newbie!] I felt the same about the first. The latter (the encyclopedia) I think I read on the boat at Scapa on holiday and found lots of interesting stuff. I'll try and get hold of the other one. The TDI manuals, whilst very readable, are hopeless for skills revision IMVHO. I'd like two things; a reference manual of generic skills and drills, including the outlandish ones, with pros/cons and how to do it. As Cave/SCH mentioned, having breather-specific info would also be useful, maybe even essential. The second thing I'd like is a reference of the other stuff. The theories of relevant physiology, deco theories, info on all the weird and wonderful gases and how to use them and all the other interesting stuff which is needed out of the water, prior to the actual diving... Don't want much, do I... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

15th October 2005, 10:14	#14 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,906	There are some people who don't have the inclination or ability to self-teach. There are others that do. The benefit of forums like this one is that there are always people to ask who are kind enough to share. Which is, in essence, un-paid peer instruction. I think the trick is to see the concensus and hunt around for the facts to back it up. And there will always be people who get things wrong... Quote: "How does someone know which camp s/he is in ?" and Quote: "Who is ultimately responsible if this person gets in the wrong camp and get in real trouble by doing things learnt from the Internet ?" The former: If someone has enough confidence (and I mean genuine confidence, not pressure from peer/girlfriend/boyfriend) to seek out and implement skills then that's a good indicator that they are likely to be able to self-train. The latter: The person ultimately responsible is, of course, the diver themself. The law here in the UK is based around reasonable-ness IIRC. It would not be reasonable for someone offering advice over the internet to be held responsible in the same way as an Instructor mightbe during a training session. (IMVVVHO!) Stuart, would your Mrs or one of her colleagues be prepared to comment on this? It will be important to do if Caveseeker/your plans are to be implemented. <<<(This smilie needs a wig) __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

15th October 2005, 11:01	#15 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Joe, How does someone disagree to something that he doesn't know ? You are starting to sound like a "DIR diver"... I thought my post was pretty clear about mastering rebreathers, not the CCR book.. I did "flip" through it and nothing caught my eye hence my comment "don't plan to" so I'll reserve judgement about that.. My statement frommy standpoint is correct since I dont agree with at least one.. he said "I believe every rebreather or wannabe CCR diver should have in their book case Mastering Rebreathers *and* IANTD's Tek Closed Circut Rebreathers." __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

15th October 2005, 14:12	#16 (permalink)
JPJones O2ptima Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima Titan Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 367	IANTD has a set of 2 water proof tables of CCR skills that are recommend to be given to all students. I recommend that everyone has a set and practices them regularly. They are table 3400 A&B.
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15th October 2005, 19:12	#17 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	John, thanks for the info on the tables. Joe, relax. Not everyone here has your experience and knowledge, not everyone here writes the manuals that others learn from. For most part we just read them. IMHO neither book covers everything, but both are worth reading. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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